Anyone else sick of "emotionally manipulative" fanboy defenses?(long rant)

Discussion in 'Misc. Films' started by doobie, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. doobie Registered

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    IE, the only reason you didn't like Star Wars/Superman/Avatar/Transformers etc, is because you're old and burned out, you've lost the capacity for joy and wonder, the childlike part of you has gone burned and dry.

    I mean come on, people are varied and have a right to enjoy or not enjoy any story without being told "you would have enjoyed it as a kid, it's just your capacity for wonder has died now". People have a right to their own opinion, and everyone else has the right to disagree with it.

    For example I hated Batman Forever when I saw it on the big screen at age 11, because it didn't have a dark, serious story like the previous 2, it felt too silly to me.

    when I was 14 I went to see the film Armageddon and found it a bore..and I had an obsessive hobby then collecting classic VHS sci fi and horror movies so I can't think I'd lost my wonder.

    When Phantom Menace came out in 99, fans were saying "if this came out 10 years ago, you haters would have gone nuts for it, you have to see it with the eyes of a child, not a jaded old adult desensitised by all the 90s explosion movies and cynical with age."

    Wheras I think kids appreciate a good story and the films that live on with kids are the ones with the best stories.

    And people who love this new Superman are saying to anyone who doesn't, "you went into the movie with a cruel, cynical mind, you went in expecting to nitpick at it and pull the plot apart, you went in looking for any detail different to the comic that you could nerd-rage about, you didn't let yourself enjoy it".

    And I honestly don't think there's been two movies fans expected and wanted to love more than MOS and Episode 1. I know from this very forum that tons of the people disappointed with MOS right now were really excited about the film in the months and genuinely went in expecting it to be great. If anything I'd say weight of good expectation hurts a film more.

    In my years knowing sci fans on the net every fan I've known to hate something loves something else, a hater of Nolan Batman loves Marvel movies, a hater of Star Wars 1-3 loves Firefly, a hater of Avatar loves BSG. If people have lost their wonder, why would things like BSG, Firefly and LOTR get so much respect. The fact that good series are generally respected shows that people haven't lost their sense of wonder, if anything they have a higher standard of quality from all the great sci fi we've had in the past 50 years.

    Also, it embaresses me when a fan talks in terms of childlike magic, saying the new Batman and Bond have lost their childlike magic, people only hated (latest sci fi flop) because everyone's lost their youthful magic and sense of wonder. I didn't get into sci fi and comics because I wanted magic and wonder, I got into it because they had exciting stories. Yes the wonder comes with it, but I never as a kid felt I was reading my favourite characters because they were childlike and magical.
     
    #1 doobie, Jun 25, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  2. -JKR- Registered

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    I don't know if it really fits with your topic, but one thing I hate is the "fanboy/nerd seal of approval" on movies these days. Nerds seem to have too much "power" (or better, there seem to be people who think the nerds' opinions are more relevant than others'), and that becomes dangerous when something like the "Maryjane in Amazing Spider-Man 2 situation" happens. I don't think it's a very realistic view, but if that actress was fired because of the fanboy crying, then I'm definitely afraid towards where Hollywood is heading: pleasing moaning fanboys and nerds.
     
  3. terry78 My name is Stefan, sweet thang

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    I think it's a combination of us just getting cynical in our old age and tastes becoming more sophisticated also. It's not just all or none.
     
  4. Vid Electricz Registered

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    to the OP, yes and no.

    A well made movie is a well made movie that can/should be enjoyed by adults as well as children Pixar does this well, the original Star Wars trilogy, Indiana Jones, etc...

    The new star wars films were a pale ghost in comparison to their predecessors (as are many movie franchises nowadays). But it's certainly not about being a child or being an adult. There have been many times, as an adult that I've watched a fantastic movie that has excited me and activated my imagination in the same way as when I was a child. That's something special. Most franchises (Star Wars, Spider-Man, etc...) are now soulless moneymakers being churned out like clones with no concern for quality, simply to bring in more bank. And sadly, it works.

    On the other hand, exactly as Terry said, as you grow older, your tastes change and become more "sophisticated", so you have different, more mature expectations. I think it's great to love things from your childhood and whatnot, but when you start wanting those things to be different in order to coincide with your more adult viewpoints, it's probably best to let them be (ig. people wanting a dark, rated R Spider-Man movie).
     
  5. redhawk23 Wrestlin'

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    Honestly I don't think our capacity for wonder or emotion has diminished, the films themselves are simply not as good at evoking it. They rely on the baggage of earlier films and associations to generate emotion rather than have it be rooted in any kind of actual story telling.

    Take Star Trek Into Darkness for example, the new films have done very little to actually establish the Kirk/Spock relationship and instead builds its entire climax around aping and inverting the climax of Wrath of Kahn, even though it lacks all weight without the earlier films years of built in experience with the characters. It trades entirely on the associations of the imagery. Kirk and Spock are friends because, well of course Kirk and Spock are friends! Its a movie called Star Trek!

    It is similar across many franchises.

    Film Crit Hulk has a wonderful piece on this phenomenon.

    http://badassdigest.com/2013/06/12/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-age-of-the-convoluted-blockbuster/
     
  6. Snow Queen 4AF (she/her)

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    ^ May want to spoiler tag that.
     
  7. hopefuldreamer Clark Kent > Superman

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    I know for a fact I haven't lost my sense of childlike wonder. And if anyone said that was the reason I didn't like MOS, I'd laugh in their face.

    Cause I know that the little girl who used to watch LnC every saturday night on BBC1 would have walked out of the cinema crying over the ending just as much, if not MORE. She'd have been as devestated as I was, even if she couldn't articulate why quite as well!

    In fact, since most of the defenses I've seen for the ending have been about it being more 'realistic' and a mature and deep thing for the character to have to do, I'd say it's those people who want things handled that way who have lost their sense of childlike wonder.
     
  8. Autonet What?

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    Also the tone of the films have changed a little. "Dark and gritty" so to speak. Man of Steel went for it and I think it missed in a couple of places. Maybe I'm old but I don't see it as a 9 or 10.

    People come out of the woodwork to white knight it though.
     
  9. Mace Dolex Powerful User

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    For me it depends on the movies whether it will hold my interest or not, and yeah age probably has something to do with it, for example in the 80's as a kid I devoured all the action testosterone flicks with Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Charles Bronson but I found The Expendable movies a total bore and nothing like the classic action flicks.

    And for example I can never get into the Harry Potter flicks because in my eyes I view them as children movies I think more having to do since the original HP books came out when I was in high school that it didn't interest me.

    But I'm proud to say I loved the Transformer movies since the kids like me who grew up on the toys are now adults and therefore the films cannot be viewed as just a "kiddie" franchise but for both kids and adults.
     
  10. terry78 My name is Stefan, sweet thang

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    I'm 35 and still go see most of the animated flicks that come out each year because I'm just a cartoon fan and that hasn't really changed. Even when I was like 9 years old I would watch them more for the dialogue than the slapstick.
     
  11. bullets bang bang

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    People on these boards seem too jaded. Aliens could come from the sky and some of you probably say "meh" and go back to your computers , lol. That's just how some of these "rants" come across to me. Anytime I go see a movie and think it was awesome I can just log on here and see it tore down. It doesn't matter good the special effects , story , acting , or anything really. There is always a contingent of people who aren't going to like a movie no matter what. I liked The Man of Steel and the controversial ending. However I haven't lost my sense of wonder. I've also been watching the animated series and enjoy that too. It's not really cut and dry when it comes to having a sense of wonder. Also I think everyone cares about quality. I've never taken sides in the Marvel vs DC debate. I'd like to see good quality superhero films from both companies.
     
  12. Soapy Registered

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    I don't agree about the cynicism, but I think you're spot on about tastes becoming more sophisticated.

    Kids aren't more open to liking movies because of "joy" and "wonder" and all that horse****. It's because kids are dumb and inexperienced and they haven't seen enough movies to know what separates a good one from a bad one.
     
  13. Visualiza Jimmy Scrambles

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    I agree with every word, but personally I'm sick of fanboy defenses in all of their forms.

    I'm sick and tired of criticism being picked apart, distorted, and exaggerated because people can't come to grips with the idea that others didn't fancy their precious movies or characters. It's nauseating.
     
  14. BestGirl Reluctantly following Vought's orders

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    ^Agreed. Actually, I'm tired of watching hypesters get slammed for their opinions, positive or negative.

    Well...yeah. That's the nature of opinions. What seems awesome to you may seem lame to someone else, and vice versa.
     
    #14 BestGirl, Jun 25, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  15. bullets bang bang

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    Well my point is that they should be treated as such. I'm sick of people trying to divide each other in simplistic terms. I've been told I liked Iron Man 3 more than another film because it was "shiny and new". I'm sick of the condescending b.s.
     
  16. terry78 My name is Stefan, sweet thang

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    You can't say you enjoy some of the Transformers films on any site without being blindsided.
     
  17. Octoberist point blank

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    Generally speaking, I'm sick of the absolutism, the misinterpretation of information, and straight-up ignorance. And just like the lack of tolerance, understanding and perspective grinds my wheel because deep down, people should know better. I don't know if it's the lack of self-awareness or some sort of autism that gets in the way of a clear understanding, but I guess that's the way it is. Meh.

    Don't get me wrong, I love fandom. I love geeking out over geeky things. But man, some people are there are just so dramatic.

    That's why it's hard for studios or directors to listen to fans when it comes to properties because of their fickle nature. The only way a strong voice can be heard is through blogs and websites. that offers same opinion ONLY written much better and being more constructive.
     
  18. Eggyman The Oval Avenger

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    I don't care. How can these cgi schlockfests get people at each other? I don't understand anymore. The films get bigger and dumber and so do us fans.
     
  19. terry78 My name is Stefan, sweet thang

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    No, we are more cynical, believe me. Watching a big blockbuster full of spectacle doesn't always have to equate to being less intelligent. People wouldn't have vices like eating ****** food, sleeping around, and getting high if they were smart all the time.
     
  20. Solidus Knights of Ren

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    Very well said.
     
  21. Teelie Jokerface

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    ^^^ It's all true too. A good bit of anectodal evidence is when Blizzard listened too much to the players when they made the Death Knight class for WOTLK and it ended up way off balance, overpowered and difficult to offset in PVP. They're still having to make adjustments from that even beyond their usual re-tooling every expansion.

    I think not listening to the fans well enough is also how we get things like the AVP movie franchise where it could've been great but it ended up crap.

    There is that balance of fandom and general audience expectations that isn't easy to traverse. If you slip too far one way or another you lose both audiences.

    The fandom is its own worst enemy though. What one person loves another may hate in the same franchise. Fandom is the ultimate split personality. All of the people are of one mind except for one or two things and it splits everyone.
     
  22. GENERAL RAAM582 A Rebellion Built on Hope

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    I don't like when people tell me that I'm not a true fan of something because I didn't like the newest movie or I didn't hate the newest movie.
     
  23. dark_b Registered

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    fanboys should never had the option to use the ''internet''.

    can we somehow debate fanboys and reviews? this is the best part about fanboys. they are so big hypocrites its not even sad. its just funny. and i am so happy that MOS has 56% on Rotten. because i remember from 2006 - 2012 that Rotten was very important to superman fanboys. they said that MOS will be over 90%. now its under 60%. and now Rotten is not important. critics are haters and they dont like them. can we talk about this? superman fans got their dream movie but they can not sleep. hahahha
     
  24. bullets bang bang

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    To be fair this site is actually tame compared to most of the other sites I've been to. Our mods are a bit strict but good about restraining people who launch those kind of attacks and try to get personal.
     
  25. Teelie Jokerface

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    I wanted to make a joke that being blindsided by Transformers is a given because it's so flashy but that seemed too snarky.

    It's not the way I would have wanted them to be done but given the material I can't say what we got was all that bad either. It's too easy to criticize the series and offend people though, even if you are a fan of it yourself or have legitimate critique.
     

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