Are your Civil Liberties Under Attack? Discussion

[mclay18]

I'm surprised no one's started a thread about him.

So, what do you think? Traitor or constitutional hero?

 

[The Question]

He's a real American hero. The ultimate act of patriotism is standing up when your government is doing something immoral.America was founded on that principal. Our government is doing some terrible things both here at home and overseas and it needs to stop. It won't stop unless more people do what Edward Snowden has done. Anyone who thinks he's a traitor is a poop head.

 

[mclay18]

I don't think he deserves to be labeled as a traitor either. But by outing himself from the get-go, he won't be able to live the rest of his life normally (like 'Deep Throat' did). He'll be either looking over his shoulder constantly, even in a country without an extradition treaty with the U.S..

 

[enterthemadness]

Oh Putin....

http://www.newsmaxworld.com/Europe/russia-snowden-asylum-leaks/2013/06/11/id/509255

Russia would *consider* giving Mr. Snowden Asylum.

In other words, ratings grab for RT America.

 

[Ant-manic]

a dropout who managed to get a decent paying job (not to mention girlfriend) in hawaii. threw it all away for fame. complete narcissist.

 

[The Question]

a dropout who managed to get a decent paying job (not to mention girlfriend) in hawaii. threw it all away for fame. complete narcissist.

Yes, because having to leave all of his loved ones behind and move to a foreign country and be under constant fear of being arrested and/or assassinated is something people do when they want to be famous.


I was, by the way, being completely sarcastic there. There's no way he did what he did just to get famous, that is a completely absurd notion.

 

[Ant-manic]

Yes, because having to leave all of his loved ones behind and move to a foreign country and be under constant fear of being arrested and/or assassinated is something people do when they want to be famous.


I was, by the way, being completely sarcastic there. There's no way he did what he did just to get famous, that is a completely absurd notion.

he's a coward and a criminal. and fleeing is exactly what someone like him would do. it keeps him in the press; makes him seem like a tragic victim. him being a "hero" is a completely absurd notion. it's what happens when people watch too many summer blockbusters.

 

[The Question]

he's a coward and a criminal. and fleeing is exactly what someone like him would do. it keeps him in the press; makes him seem like a tragic victim. him being a "hero" is a completely absurd notion. it's what happens when people watch too many summer blockbusters.

Yes, fleeing the country is someone who is under threat of arrest and/or assassination would do. Because that's the sensible thing to do under those circumstances.

He is a hero. He's risking everything to try and make the government stop doing something that's wrong. How is that not heroic?

And how is what he is doing cowardly? He gave up a well paying, comfortable position to do something that puts him under threat of arrest and death and forces him to leave his home, probably forever. How is that cowardly?

I guess my real question is: What's wrong with his having leaked that information? How was that a bad thing to do?

 

[mclay18]

I'm pretty sure 'Deep Throat' would've left the country, had he outed himself as the guy who broke the Watergate scandal as it happened.

 

[Ant-manic]

i don't need either one of you to agree with me.

 

[The Question]

i don't need either one of you to agree with me.

So you're just going to completely side step my questions.

Okay, that's cool.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I'm surprised no one's started a thread about him.

So, what do you think? Traitor or constitutional hero?

That remains to be seen. Right now he is a traitor. But if Americans turn on Obama's policies he could become a hero.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Certainly he has courage. As an Australian I am shocked at how much the American govt polices its citizens, so I would certainly call him heroic in that regard. I've never been comfortable with the idea that someone is a traitor in anything other than legalities when it comes to protesting the actions of a government. Your nation celebrates its founding on actions such as this (even if the oppressive aspect of Britain is overplayed in American culture as far as I can tell).

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Certainly he has courage. As an Australian I am shocked at how much the American govt polices its citizens, so I would certainly call him heroic in that regard. I've never been comfortable with the idea that someone is a traitor in anything other than legalities when it comes to protesting the actions of a government. Your nation celebrates its founding on actions such as this (even if the oppressive aspect of Britain is overplayed in American culture as far as I can tell).

You mean how its no different than any other government in the world? Each government does things to protect its citizens as it sees fit and sometimes they may seem a bit extreme. Is what the US Government possibly overstepping its bounds? Yes. But is doing what Snowden did to expose it the right way? Probably not. His status to me is he's sort of both a whistleblower and a criminal. He shined light on a classified surveillance program that may have not been run in the best way but he also broke into a government office he worked at to hack in and steal documents he wasn't allowed to have. Until this thing plays out more, I don't know if I want to commend him more or want him prosecuted.

As far as how much information the government was gathering on citizens, it's quite a bit less than what people allow private corporations allow to collect when sending emails, shopping online, or posting on social networks. Only difference is those corporations don't have power to arrest you while the government does; that's why people are so upset over it. To act like the government spying and snooping is something new then many are pretty uninformed or naive. I've always assumed, after 9/11 and the Patriot Act, that the US Government was spying on its citizenry to protect from terrorist plots from both home and abroad, just like they were doing during the Cold War to protect against communism. They've just got an easier time with most everyone putting all this information out there without thinking of the repercussions of doing so.

 

[Kelly]

I don't think he's a traitor, nor do I think he's a patriot. I think there are people that he could have gone to to help him do this properly. So, to me he's just pretty stupid.

 

[Pink Ranger]

And he's trying to avoid capture by going to Hong Kong? He must be the only computer nerd in the world who's never seen The Dark Knight.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

And he's trying to avoid capture by going to Hong Kong? He must be the only computer nerd in the world who's never seen The Dark Knight.

Must be the only person who thought a place controlled by China is a place that won't spy on him either or doesn't have their own government that censors/disappears people for stuff done online.

 

[Destructus86]

He is a TRUE HERO. We need more people like him to help expose the lies of the government and their betrayal of the people they are sworn to serve.

So yes...that makes him a hero.

 

[mclay18]

I don't think he's a traitor, nor do I think he's a patriot. I think there are people that he could have gone to to help him do this properly. So, to me he's just pretty stupid.

Yeah. They could've done the usual silhouetted interview with his face in shadow and his voice distorted to protect his identity.

Don't know why he didn't do that.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Probably because people wouldn't take him seriously.

Silhouetted figures don't have much credibility.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

He is a TRUE HERO. We need more people like him to help expose the lies of the government and their betrayal of the people they are sworn to serve.

So yes...that makes him a hero.

Our standards for heroes is really falling if you consider what Snowden did heroic.

 

[Kelly]

Yeah. They could've done the usual silhouetted interview with his face in shadow and his voice distorted to protect his identity.

Don't know why he didn't do that.

No, I was thinking more of getting a lawyer that has worked in areas like this, I just saw one interviewed the other day. He just needed someone that had the best interest of the country AND Snowden in mind rather than just a reporter that wanted a story.

 

[Kelly]

And he's trying to avoid capture by going to Hong Kong? He must be the only computer nerd in the world who's never seen The Dark Knight.

He's no longer in Hong Kong, he is in China I believe now.

 

[Kelly]

He is a TRUE HERO. We need more people like him to help expose the lies of the government and their betrayal of the people they are sworn to serve.

So yes...that makes him a hero.

IMO, a TRUE HERO is someone that thinks about others before themselves. Not saying that this particular information rises to the grade of "putting people at risk", but it very well could really mess up our ability in the future to work with people.

So, as I said before, I think he could have done this in a much smarter way.

Not a hero, by a long shot.

 

[Cosmic]

Our standards for heroes is really falling if you consider what Snowden did heroic.

Exactly. This is a term that's being used far too generously. I think he's a hero in his own mind, based on some of his statements...for example, describing his actions as speaking "truth to power"...a phrase that people normally use to praise their own heroes or people whom they admire, not themselves.

I see Snowden as a clueless whiner, and an arrogant, reckless, spineless coward. I don't want to see him locked up for life, but he should stand before the law like a man instead of running and hiding in Honk Kong. He said he would not hide! But he's now effectively hiding behind govt. officials in HK. Now he's talking to the Chinese press about US Govt. hacking, as if they didn't already know. Clearly trying to gain some sympathy for letting him remain there. People still see this man as a hero?

I understand his concern of not trusting the criminal justice system all too well. The problem is, the info he leaked was not worth the penalty he now potentially faces. He just doesn't have a strong case. I believe his cause was just, but his actions of releasing classified Top Secret docs and then running to China cannot be justified.

I see him as a whiner, for continuing to work for Uncle Sam even after feeling disillusionment from experiences in the Army and with the CIA. He took that job, took the money, then backstabbed his employer, his co-workers and the US Govt, threw his family under the bus and ran to China. Instead of creating this mess, he should've left his job and started his own, legal, grassroots effort to make the changes he believes in.