Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - Part 9

[Justin]

I actually think I want Laurel for Canary too. Although unless they are geniuses they are really making it hard for me to see how they can do it believably now. But I'd love to see her turn it around to be honest, character and actress both.

 

[JC00]

Sara is barely a character. She was a plot device at first. Now she's basically just a female Oliver. Similar backstory. Similar transition. Dealt with similar demons. She's not well rounded or deep, she's a very surface character designed for a purpose.

That purpose is likely to develop the actual female lead of the show, Katie Cassidy.

Plus Black Canary has generally always had two iterations. We haven't got the story for 'Black Canary II' yet on Arrow. Thats likely what Cassidy will be. The producers said Sara was just the beginning of Laurel's journey.

You just reek of Laurel fanboy.

 

[jonathancrane]

My interest in the show would be nuked if they made Laurel into Black Canary. Majorly nuked. It would become a new paradigm of bad writing, one that would top nuking the fridge and jumping the shark.

 

[Nathan]

That purpose is likely to develop the actual female lead of the show, Katie Cassidy.

The female lead that is pushed into the background of the Posters, who looks like a villain, and was absent from 2 entire Episodes, where she wasn't missed at all.

Plus Black Canary has generally always had two iterations. We haven't got the story for 'Black Canary II' yet on Arrow. Thats likely what Cassidy will be.

And in the New 52, there is only one single Canary. So a Black Canary II isn't always required. Especially when the Black Canary II doesn't add anything new.

The producers said Sara was just the beginning of Laurel's journey.

A journey that so far, just makes a lot of people groan, and cheer when they actually don't have to put up with it.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

You just reek of Laurel fanboy.

You reek of a Sara apologist.

I'm not even a fan of Katie Cassidy. She's the least talented regular on the cast. However, Wednesday's episode proved that even her acting is better than Caity Lotz' acting. Lotz is just incredibly unconvincing. Minimal range.

I'd rather Cassidy remain as the female lead. Some of you seem to underestimate the Arrow producers. They've intentionally made Laurel unlikeable this season in order to mess with people's expectations.

Having a faux Canary appear and Laurel lose control of her life will make the revelation of Laurel as BC be surprising. The Arrow producers always do this type of thing. They use misdirection.

Lotz staying on as Canary and being Oliver in a female body, for the rest of the series, would just be too stale and obvious. They have plans for Laurel.

 

[Human Torch]

Having a faux Canary appear and Laurel lose control of her life will make the revelation of Laurel as BC be surprising. The Arrow producers always do this type of thing. They use misdirection.

Lotz staying on as Canary and being Oliver in a female body, for the rest of the series, would just be too stale and obvious. They have plans for Laurel.

I don't know.It seemed obvious from day one they planned from day one to have Laurel be the BC.If anything,it would be fresh and unexpected to spin her into a villain than to try against all odds to shoehorn her into the BC role when it's already being played to perfection by someone else.

 

[Nathan]

They writers had a lot of plans. And there have already been several changes, as the show went on.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

The female lead that is pushed into the background of the Posters, who looks like a villain, and was absent from 2 entire Episodes, where she wasn't missed at all.

Pushed into the background in one poster. A poster that highlighted team Arrow in the forefront. Her being absent in episodes means nothing. There were episodes this season that have been very Laurel-centric. She's had more focus than Diggle and others.

The villain thing is a matter of opinion. She's hardly been a villain this season. We already have enough villains, including Rochev to come.

And in the New 52, there is only one single Canary. So a Black Canary II isn't always required. Especially when the Black Canary II doesn't add anything new.

New 52 just started, so your point is moot. There could easily be a successor to Dinah Drake someday. Arrow takes more influence from the pre-New 52 material anyway, including Longbow Hunters and the classics.

A journey that so far, just makes a lot of people groan, and cheer when they actually don't have to put up with it.

Speak for yourself. A lot of viewers were intrigued by Cassidy's performance in Wednesday's episode and are starting to sympathize with the Laurel character.

I'm usually the first to trash a bad Katie Cassidy performance, but credit where credit is due, she was better than Lotz.

 

[Paradox1]

I have to agree Sarah is misdirection like Wintergreen was last year. I don't know when that journey will begin for Laurel.

 

[Nathan]

You see minimal range with Lotz, I just continuously see extreme overacting with Cassidy.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

I don't know.It seemed obvious from day one they planned from day one to have Laurel be the BC.If anything,it would be fresh and unexpected to spin her into a villain than to try against all odds to shoehorn her into the BC role when it's already being played to perfection by someone else.

I think they still plan to have Laurel as BC II. They're just going about it in a less predictable way.It's not like she's going back to being a Lawyer. We already have enough villains on the series. Too many, if anything, at the moment.

Laurel will either die or become Black Canary. I doubt the CW wants to get rid of Cassidy. The network is probably the main reason that shes the female lead. Doubtful Cassidy is going anywhere.

 

[Nathan]

I have to agree Sarah is misdirection like Wintergreen was last year. I don't know when that journey will begin for Laurel.

At least Wintergreen was mute for like 95% of the time. We also didn't learn anything about him, and then they threw Slade Wilson into the show. With Sara, audiences are already way too invested. To just kill her at any moment now, would be just wrong.

 

[Human Torch]

I think the "Not a good enough actress" thing with Lotz is laughable.It seems like a desperate attempt by her detractors to discredit her in some way.She's done a fantastic job and is no better or worse than Cassidy and Amell.

 

[Human Torch]

I think they still plan to have Laurel as BC II. They're just going about it in a less predictable way.It's not like she's going back to being a Lawyer. We already have enough villains on the series. Too many, if anything, at the moment.

Eh,in a show like this,I don't think it's possible to have "too many" villains.

Laurel will either die or become Black Canary. I doubt the CW wants to get rid of Cassidy. The network is probably the main reason that shes the female lead. Doubtful Cassidy is going anywhere.

I really hope she doesn't go anywhere and that they use her in a more compelling manner.

It's funny that she used the phrase "You stole my life" if that's what they intend for her to do with Sara's alter ego.Kinda on the nose,if you ask me.

 

[JC00]

We are mid-way through Season 2 and Laurel has taken about 30 steps back in terms of being even close to the path of becoming Black Canary.

 

[JC00]

Speak for yourself. A lot of viewers were intrigued by Cassidy's performance in Wednesday's episode and are starting to sympathize with the Laurel character.

I'm usually the first to trash a bad Katie Cassidy performance, but credit where credit is due, she was better than Lotz.

Another post that just reeks of Laurel fanboyism.

 

[Ksb36]

Oliver lying to his mother and sister about being Green Arrow should not be an issue with anyone. I don't think it is a legitimate criticism at all. Those are just the rules of superhero universes. People hiding their secret identities from others is the norm and very common. That's like saying Peter Parker is a prick for not telling Aunt May he is Spider-Man. Heck, Superman is also a prick by that very logic, at least for the couple of years he didn't tell Lois (and his best friend, Jimmy).

Okay. Let's break this down. Some lies are good lies and some lies are bad. We can all probably agree on that. Some lies are to protect people and some are so that people can get away with bad behavior with minimal consequences.

Why is Oliver's lie that he is the Arrow so much more acceptable than Moira's lie that she made a mistake and had a child by MM? Remember she kept this from MM as well as her own family. The truth would have destroyed her marriage (even though apparently Daddy Ollie had trouble keeping his pants zipped, too)AND exposed baby Thea to an unstable and dangerous biological father. No, whatever her faults, she did this to protect her child (ren).

Meanwhile, Oliver is running around town KILLING multiple people in the first season especially, and he just gets a figurative Get Out of Jail Free card! Oliver lives in a very precarious glass house. He should know better than to throw stones.

Plus, Green Arrow is essentially Oliver's hobby...a hobby that has no connection to his family whatsoever. Not the same thing as Moira lying to her own daughter about who her true father is for 18 years. That is why Oliver is angry.

No connection to his family? What about the entire first season and the book his father left him? How many hobbies do you have that involve shooting people with arrows and in some cases killing them?

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

Another post that just reeks of Laurel fanboyism.

No need for you to be ash flash that some prefer Cassidy over Lotz.


Cassidy is the lesser of the two evils.

 

[Capt. Marvelous]

I think the "Not a good enough actress" thing with Lotz is laughable.It seems like a desperate attempt by her detractors to discredit her in some way.She's done a fantastic job and is no better or worse than Cassidy and Amell.

I doubt she would have been able to convey the emotions that Amell displayed so well in the speech scene.

Lotz' minimal acting range basically consists of her making this Owen Wilson face half the time.

 

[jonathancrane]

To be fair, Laurel has had two expressions this season: crying or the pissed off one that has been present in every scene, for the past half dozen episodes.

 

[Ksb36]

Another post that just reeks of Laurel fanboyism.

Is this a joke?

I don't even particularly like KC but man has she gotten a raw deal.

First of all, how in the name of god do you make the pre-island relationship between her and Oliver anything but a soul destroying self deception on her part? This was not some great romance. It was a spoiled, entitled jerk leading on a naive girl all the while sleeping with her freaking SISTER!!! Among other girls.

Then, said jerk returns to f**k up her life 5 years later, leading her on all over again. It has been a major frustration for as to why no character other than Felicity won't call Ollie out on his incredible jackassery! If you or I was Detective Lance why in the hell would we not kick the living s**t out of Oliver Queen at the first available opportunity?

The writers have done KC a disservice by not addressing the profoundly screwed up history between Laurel, Oliver and Sara in a more meaningful and realistic way. I mean how pleasant can it be for her to play a doormat while every body else gets to do cool stuff like fight and look like a badass, while she's....lawyering.

This is no KC apology. Frankly, she's an off putting actress. Probably would make a great villain. She's also had some very ill advised plastic surgery in the last year that has destroyed her beauty. Any plastic surgeon that would have done this to her looks ought to be publicly shamed. She has clearly violated her appearance clause and should get it reversed during hiatus.

So, recognizing the limits of the actress, it is the WRITING that needs to improve. Don't blame the actress for crappy characterization.

 

[Nathan]

Haha, I was just about to say that. Kassidy has basically 2 go to facial expressions.

 

[Human Torch]

Okay. Let's break this down. Some lies are good lies and some lies are bad. We can all probably agree on that. Some lies are to protect people and some are so that people can get away with bad behavior with minimal consequences.

Why is Oliver's lie that he is the Arrow so much more acceptable than Moira's lie that she made a mistake and had a child by MM? Remember she kept this from MM as well as her own family. The truth would have destroyed her marriage (even though apparently Daddy Ollie had trouble keeping his pants zipped, too)AND exposed baby Thea to an unstable and dangerous biological father. No, whatever her faults, she did this to protect her child (ren).

Meanwhile, Oliver is running around town KILLING multiple people in the first season especially, and he just gets a figurative Get Out of Jail Free card! Oliver lives in a very precarious glass house. He should know better than to throw stones.




No connection to his family? What about the entire first season and the book his father left him? How many hobbies do you have that involve shooting people with arrows and in some cases killing them?

Yeah,I agree.It's just bad soap.It's the same as Thea hating Moira for being part of the Undertaking before realizing "Gee,it was probably tough on her being tugged around by a meglo-maniac."

Same thing here.Ollie (with his past especially) can't give his mom the benefit of not wanting to air her dirty little secret?Every time they try to manufacture "tension" between Moira and her kids it always falls flat.

 

[Dr Lee]

I have to admit that, as much as I love the expanding of the show into the DC world, something I loved about the first Season was the Oliver/Felicity/Diggle dynamic.... And I'm kinda missing that.

I don't think it helps that I think the Laurel arc this season has been poorly done...

 

[Human Torch]

.

First of all, how in the name of god do you make the pre-island relationship between her and Oliver anything but a soul destroying self deception on her part? This was not some great romance. It was a spoiled, entitled jerk leading on a naive girl all the while sleeping with her freaking SISTER!!! Among other girls.

Then, said jerk returns to f**k up her life 5 years later, leading her on all over again. It has been a major frustration for as to why no character other than Felicity won't call Ollie out on his incredible jackassery! If you or I was Detective Lance why in the hell would we not kick the living s**t out of Oliver Queen at the first available opportunity?

The writers have done KC a disservice by not addressing the profoundly screwed up history between Laurel, Oliver and Sara in a more meaningful and realistic way.

They gave Laurel's relationship with Ollie two strikes from the get go with the "cheating with her sister" theme.That makes it all the more compelling that with Sara back (and her history with both Sara and Ollie being a factor) that Laurel would turn villain.