Arrow ARROW Season 3, Episode 10 Promo; "Left Behind"

If you come back with all your memories intact you didn't really die.

I don't know that is necessarily true. Pretty much every case of a person reviving after being determined to be, and declared dead that I've ever heard of always seem to not have suffered amnesia.
 
Which they may will if they do actually say he never died. or they might avoid the whole topic all together will be just talking about his recovery(short term) & plans to deal with Ras with Oliver's return to the city( long term) ,after they say he fell & they found him & move on from there.

They can't avoid the topic of if he died/how he was resurrected/how he survived/etc. It's arguably the biggest moment of the show to date, they can't just flat out avoid it. If so, they could lose a lot of fans. This needs to be explained. It would be so cheap for them to ignore the "how did he survive or come back to life"
 
Re: Oliver surviving

Long story short, it is unrealistic and - statistically speaking - his probability of survival is really, really low. However, this is fiction at the end of the day and - much like in other aspects of the show, and in other shows - suspension of disbelief is often called upon. YMMV whether this exceeds one's particular threshold or not and why. This unlikely event in and of itself is hardly unique; both within the show and within the context of fiction as a whole.

Anyway, let's break things down.

Let's start with the stab wound. Given Ra's stabbed Oliver in the right upper quadrant of his abdomen, the biggest risk in this region would be trauma to his liver which is likely going to bleed profusely. However, to nitpick the show, this was not portrayed accurately at all as it should not result in hematemesis/vomiting blood or hemoptysis/coughing blood. A major bleed from liver trauma would cause the liver to bleed into the abdominal cavity. It's far less likely for it to collect and backtrack its way up the GI tract - through the hepatic duct, through the bowels, into the stomach and up the gullet to the mouth. And shouldn't cause blood to collect in his lungs or trachea at all. However, internal bleeding is far less visual. No, the blood from the mouth was done because it just makes for dramatic imagery, to show that it's a major injury and because it looks "cool". Even if the blood was to collect in latter way, it would be more realistic for it to be gushing out from Oliver's rectum rather than his mouth; which would be less cool looking.

Next, we move on to the fall. This, I feel, is actually somewhat more survivable. A big factor of the severity of a fall injury is the speed at which it occurred in (or to be ultra precise, the rapid deceleration that occurs at the time of impact); meaning a slower fall tends to be a less serious fall all else being equal. While it's hard to say with any degree of certainty, I don't think that Oliver was falling at terminal velocity (the maximum speed a person call fall in a given non-vacuum environment). It takes about half a kilometre's drop to achieve this and I don't think Oliver fell from that height. But even if this occurred, the odds of survival is still far from zero. There have been numerous reports of people surviving falls at terminal velocity. Given the snow-covered terrain and possibility of a broken/staggered fall, this was probably the less deadly of the two traumas Oliver sustained.

Finally, let's talk about exposure. Given that he's unconscious, without protective layers, possibly in hypovolemic shock (from the aforementioned blood loss) and left exposed for several days, this is probably the one likeliest to kill Oliver - albeit over a period of time. Oliver would be at a high risk of hypothermia and frostbite (especially if he's in shock and thus peripherally shut down). Yet interestingly, this is the one where only a few people take issue with.


Overall, it should come as no surprise that fiction need not be realistic. What it needs to do is tell a good story. With that comes the need to take artistic license with the science - downplaying the severity of some things as necessary and exaggerating the severity of others when it suits them. All in the name of generating good tension and drama. Meaning that Oliver should be seriously injured and would need time and help to fully recover, if at all.
 
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I will be EXTREMELY disappointed if Oliver wasn't brought back to life from liquid from the Lazarus pit.
 
I will be EXTREMELY disappointed if Oliver wasn't brought back to life from liquid from the Lazarus pit.

Then prepare to be EXTREMELY disappointed :csad:

They already stated that the Lazarus pit would not be used. Also Oliver "woke up" or was revived back on a bed or a table of some sort when we saw him at the end of Left behind. I don't think we going to see it, UNLESS they make a reference to it or something but I don't know....
 
Then prepare to be EXTREMELY disappointed :csad:

They already stated that the Lazarus pit would not be used. Also Oliver "woke up" or was revived back on a bed or a table of some sort when we saw him at the end of Left behind. I don't think we going to see it, UNLESS they make a reference to it or something but I don't know....

http://collider.com/stephen-amell-arrow-interview-tca/

"We’ve seen a Lazarus Pit, although that’s not something that’s going to be used for Oliver."

Oliver didn't get revived by a pit, but they're on the show, and we've already seen one (best guess is the bath in the Ra's reveal). I do think his revival is possibly related to the pit even if not directly and/or the chemicals they're searching for in the flashbacks.
 
http://collider.com/stephen-amell-arrow-interview-tca/

"We’ve seen a Lazarus Pit, although that’s not something that’s going to be used for Oliver."

Oliver didn't get revived by a pit, but they're on the show, and we've already seen one (best guess is the bath in the Ra's reveal). I do think his revival is possibly related to the pit even if not directly and/or the chemicals they're searching for in the flashbacks.

Whoops my mistake.... I actually do remember the bath when they introduced Ra. I can see how they can maybe incorporate the pit in some way of reviving Oliver, but I'm still on the fence about the idea myself consider Marc said that Tatsu used medical equipment that we are apparently going to see in this week's episode.
 
Lotta hand wringing over the possible lack/inclusion of the Lazarus pit, magical herbs or whatever they use to revive Ollie when we don't actually know yet how they did it yet.
 
The current problem is that they are saying, he didn't even die in the first place. I'm fine with the mystery of what brought him back, I'm not fine with the nonsense that he survived a combination of getting impaled, thrown off a cliff, and being exposed to freezing temperatures.
 
I have to agree with a lot of people on the topic of Ollie's survival. I honestly don't care how he is brought back from the dead so long as it's in some way mystical, and so long as he actually died.

He got stabbed pretty badly, but that fall was the real reason he should definitely be dead. Sure, people have survived insane falls in real life, but if you are unconcious, you can't break your fall with your arms or legs, so if you land on your back like he did, all that deceleration is going straight through your skull and internal organs. He fell at least 50 metres (probably a lot more), that'd put his speed at 100 kph (60 mph). No way is an inch or two of snow cushioning that fall (and I checked the scene, there was barely any snow on that ledge).

Now here's my argument for why this should hold in this fictional world: a lot of characters have 'died' so far on the show, but every single one that came back died in a way that was entirely justifiable (Sara being sucked under water twice, the mirakuru saving Slade, Malcom going to Nanda Parbat) and those that died for real took wounds remarkably similar to Ollie (Tommy and Moira were impaled pretty similarly, and Sara was shot in the stomach then fell a fraction of the distance Ollie did.)

NB. I don't care if the creators make bull***** explanations, if it doesn't make sense on-screen, then they failed as creators. That's how storytelling works.
 
The current problem is that they are saying, he didn't even die in the first place. I'm fine with the mystery of what brought him back, I'm not fine with the nonsense that he survived a combination of getting impaled, thrown off a cliff, and being exposed to freezing temperatures.

What "they" (whoever "they" are) are saying is irrelevant. We don't know yet exactly what happened yet, It hasn't been fully explained yet.
The only clue we have is Maseo's line at the end -
"I asked her (Tatsu) to come here, so she could bring you back to life."
implying Ollie was indeed dead. We'll see next episode, I'm sure.
 
What "they" (whoever "they" are) are saying is irrelevant.

It's quite relevant when "they" (Guggeinheim) is the showrunner. But I see what you're saying: just because we were told something happened doesn't mean it'll translate that way on screen.

We don't know yet exactly what happened yet, It hasn't been fully explained yet.

Quite right. But we do know that, according to Guggeinheim, Oliver never actually died and was (essentially) operated on, presumably to ensure that he wouldn't die. We'll see Katana's equipment in the next episode.

The only clue we have is Maseo's line at the end -
"I asked her (Tatsu) to come here, so she could bring you back to life."
implying Ollie was indeed dead. We'll see next episode, I'm sure.

He was speaking poetically.
 
NB. I don't care if the creators make bull***** explanations, if it doesn't make sense on-screen, then they failed as creators. That's how storytelling works.

True. However, it's a very subjective line regarding what falls within and what falls outside one's suspension of disbelief. For some, the whole Mirakuru raising the dead thing might be distractingly unbelievable while for others, fine and dandy. Personally, nothing about Oliver's defeat by Ra's made me immediately think "Oliver is definitely, 100% dead". In fiction-land, my mantra is always if there's no body, the guy's not dead.

It's also interesting how you find the fall the most hard to accept. As I mentioned in my breakdown of the scene, that was probably the most survivable of the three factors. After all, it's the one part that was left unseen. We never actually see how Oliver fell or land. There are many ways or reasons why the fall could've been less-than-fatal; such as an interrupted fall (e.g. he could have fallen only a few feet and rolled the rest of the way down the slope).

This is especially so when one factors in how falls often work in fiction-land - like how often people are shown to fall from height only to land unscathed in water (even though this should be just as deadly and hard as solid ground) or how characters "fall to their deaths" only to return episodes later with nary an explanation on how they escaped death.
 
I guess my main issue is the fall looks pretty much vertical, there is no way he should have survived it. Also, there was a large degree of symmetry between his 'death' and Sara's, except he fell a lot further than her, and she apparently died instantly.

I get the idea of suspension of disbelief, but for me the biggest problem in that area is consistency. Mirakuru was pretty consistently shown to have powers of resurrection (whereas the pretty variable power levels of the thugs as the plot required was something that irritated me, with Oliver barely taking down Grungy early in the season, then even Roy, pre-training, beating them up in the tunnel at the end.) Oliver surviving wounds that normally kill characters is annoying.

I guess my point is, this is a supposedly 'grounded and realistic' show, with occasional touches of sci-fi and fantasy. If they choose to use an SF/F reason for why something that shouldn't happen did happen, fine, especially if you establish rules and foreshadow your twists well; however, touting a 'realistic' superhero show then flagrantly ignoring realism is lazy and plain bad writing.
 
It's also interesting how you find the fall the most hard to accept. As I mentioned in my breakdown of the scene, that was probably the most survivable of the three factors. After all, it's the one part that was left unseen. We never actually see how Oliver fell or land. There are many ways or reasons why the fall could've been less-than-fatal; such as an interrupted fall (e.g. he could have fallen only a few feet and rolled the rest of the way down the slope).

Yeaaaa..... no.

 
That being said, if it's a VFX screwup (and it wasn't supposed to be that far) I'm more forgiving on television than a movie. I try to follow the writer's intent because I know things are on a quick deadline and they can't go back and check.

But I suspect the script suggested it was a long drop to play it up and I agree there's no way you survive that. It looks like eight or nine stories.
 
Yeaaaa..... no.


And as you can see from the gif itself, there are multiple points where the fall could be broken. All of which is irrelevant given the fact that the depiction of injuries and their severity is often underplayed in Arrow; and fiction at large.

I think a lot of the backlash here is because lots of people misinterpreted that Oliver was killed and then got their hopes up that they would consequently be introducing the Lazarus Pit - which would be a silly move on the writer's part as they'd be simply creating an unnecessary problem/complication that then instantly gets resolved with a deus ex machina. Basically, the only time to start considering a character is dead is only when there s a body and someone in-show states it; even just having one of the two isn't enough to draw such a conclusion.
 
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Yeaaaa..... no.



e44fc883b3afebc3a3bbe02e9db5b5d3.png
 
And as you can see from the gif itself, there are multiple points where the fall could be broken.

Is he fricking Homer Simpson?

All of which is irrelevant given the fact that the depiction of injuries and their severity is often underplayed in Arrow; and fiction at large.

And yet Canary died instantly after having only fallen a fraction of the height. If injuries are so underplayed in the show, then she should have been patched up with a few bandages.

The situation here is quite simple. The writers have done f**ked it up.


Well, let's hope they were messing with people, and Oliver did in fact die.
 
You know, at this point I don't really care. The explanation is clearly fantastical, regardless of whether it's a Lazarus Pit or his "will to live." It doesn't really matter which one it is. Maybe all those herbs he took over the years helped him survive.
 
About the fall, there are records of people falling from great heights (hundreds of feet) out of airplanes and survive with nary a bruise. And, as far as Canary is cocnerned, the fall was irrelevant. if she hadn't been skewered as she was, she would have easily survived that fall, It's likely that the two arrows had hit just exactly the right spots to make the wounds fatal, That's the thing with gut wounds, just a matter of a few centimeters can make a huge difference in survivability. I do agree, Ollie's survival here was very unlikely, but not totally unbelievable. It's just enough to reinforce my suspension of disbelief.
 
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About the fall, there are records of people falling from great heights (hundreds of feet) out of airplanes and survive with nary a bruise.

Even if he had miraculously sustained no injuries from the fall, there still the fatal wound delivered by Ra's, and being exposed to the freezing cold for probably hours. Because Maseo had to leave with Ra's, and then return later, without raising suspicion.

And, as far as Canary is cocnerned, the fall was irrelevant. if she hadn't been skewered as she was, she would have easily survived that fall, It's likely that the two arrows had hit just exactly the right spots to make the wounds fatal, That's the thing with gut wounds, just a matter of a few centimeters can make a huge difference in survivability.

They were pretty determined to kill her off. They even made sure to show her head all bloodied from the fall. So even if the arrows wouldn't have done the job, they made sure the fall was fatal.

I do agree, Ollie's survival here was very unlikely, but not totally unbelievable. It's just enough to reinforce my suspension of disbelief.

I still think it's bollocks. Maybe if he had only fallen, maybe I could buy it. But he was impaled, and not just by anyone, but by the Demon's head. Then kicked off a cliff, head first, barely conscious. And again, exposed to the freezing cold for at least hours, because I doubt Maseo left Ra's side right away.
 
Late question : how Brick is able to withstand a bullet in the head ?
 
Yes but it was said to be a no superpower/magic/etc show beside the cross over with Flash and some minor stuff and Mirakuru ( sp ? ) was science.
Brick is just a crime boss but him not getting hurts ( or not much ) by bullets didn't seem to amaze people.
It's a nitpick and doesn't bother me at all, it's just felt odd.
 

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