Arrow Arrow Season 3, Episode 2 "Sara" General Discussion

[Arrowshieldfan]

I think we might see some of Roy training in Arrow 2.5 comic book. Th Roy mastering Bow and Arrow is definitely unrealistic but that is why he has other weapons at his disposal when needed.

I expect Nyssa to spoil the death of Sara to Cap Lance if Laurel won't tell him. I think we will see Laurel train on screen for the most part but there is likely a few scene that will done off screen

 

[Verick808]

Laurel is already a decent martial artist though. Not superhero level but skilled by normal person standards. She's actually much more skilled than most of the other characters before they were trained. The exception pissibly being Roy who was in excellent shape and was shown to have fast reflexes and was skilled as a street brawler. I don't think she got much practice in last season between her addiction problems and her guilt issues though.Throw in Ted Grant and she should be fairly good by the end of the season. She would also be the only one we've seen really train. Ollie mastered Archery in a montage during one of his flashback episodes.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ A character doesn't have to have a PHYSICAL presence in order to be a major part of an episode.

See "The Body" for a prime example of this.

 

[Human Torch]

Laurel interrogating the guy in the hospital..was unbelieveable..AT BEST
She just brings the entire show down

Thea kicking ass..was just SOOO AWESOME..THAT SHORT HAIR..OHHH YEAH

The thing that got me is,wouldn't the cops outside hear he was screaming in pain?Not to mention they have him by a huge window after he was almost assassinated.Not too bright are the SCPD.

I'm probably the only one who hates Thea with the short hair.

 

[Mikelus]

If they want us to like Laurel... they should stop doing what they're doing right now.

Episode was a 7. A little bit worse than the premiere.

Corto Maltese looks awesome, though.

Then tell us what they should do, because she's helping Team Arrow, she's not drinking anymore and we know she's going to start training soon with Ted Grant, etc. It seems you're just going to hate anything they do anyway. Maybe you just don't like the actress, some people don't like Thea, others don't like Roy or find Amell's acting too wooden, can't please everyone.

The Hong Kong flashbacks have been lame so far, not much Waller either, they're wasting the character like they did with Isabel. Thank goodness we're going to get a better version in the Suicide Squad film!

If they make Laurel and Thea over the top badasses like they did with Roy in just a few months, the show will lose a lot of credibility, I already have the feeling that Season 3 won't be as good as S2.

 

[Human Torch]

The reason Laurel will never be as interesting as Sara,is because her backstory will never be as interesting.

Sara: Survives shipwreck,re-emerges as hench-person to Dr Ivo in his weird experiments,reunites with Ollie on the island,"dies" again,gets with the LOA,becomes a master assassin,returns to Starling as a masked vigilante,watches over a young sidekick,rejoins Oliver as a Super Hero.

Laurel: College girlfriend of Ollie,whom he "wronged",went out with Tommy,Tommy broke up with her,Tommy died trying to save her,she hated the Arrow for two weeks,became a pill popper and alcoholic,cleaned up and got her job back through blackmail.

So it's kinda a waste of time asking "How can Laurel become more interesting?",when they've squandered over two seasons and haven't been able to come up with anything of significant interest for her.

 

[DigificWriter]

The reason Laurel will never be as interesting as Sara,is because her backstory will never be as interesting

So it's kinda a waste of time asking "How can Laurel become more interesting?",when they've squandered over two seasons and haven't been able to come up with anything of significant interest for her.

According to whom?

 

[Human Torch]

Yep. Personally, I don't think "who killed Sara?" is an interesting enough mystery to drag out for an entire season (and this episode did very little to convince me otherwise).

Yeah.It's as if they were so lost for ideas,someone just said "Who shot J.R was big back in the day.Let's just do that and nobody will notice."

I thought Oliver's hesitance to display any outward emotion was classic him. Amell did a good job of portraying a man trying to keep it together in the face of grief.

I think he was at his best in the scene with Dig and you can see some of the stuff he was feeling bubbling to the surface.Still,I was expecting something more.

Rickards was terrible in that scene.

I felt bad for her,because you can tell she's really outside her comfort zone when they make her go there for those scenes.It's like you can see her thinking "You hired me for the perky blond with the one liners,this stuff should be going to Katie."But this is what the Felicity shippers want,so that's what we're getting...

I actually thought the motorcycle fight was a little silly (but I appreciate the creativity and originality behind it).

It might've gone on a bit long,I'll say that.

7.5/10 for this episode. Better than the premiere, but we can do better.

Good review,I pretty much agree.

 

[Shlee]

I loved the motorcycle joust, but I do get really really bored of them showing the stuntmen popping wheelies and doing stoppies and otherwise just being total squids. I did think it went on a little too long, but it was kinda cool, especially as we've seen the motorcycles as the preferred means of Arrow transportation, but haven't seen a lot of fighting on them (minus some arrows flying at tires).

I have a hard time with Laurel. I want to like her, and in some instances I do. But the last half of last season she just became a whiny mess who only grew some backbone or nerve when she was basically blackmailing the DA to get her job back. Laurel just seems kind of flippant, with no respect (anymore) for authority, considers herself either too important or too know-it-all to have to answer to anyone. It's like on the one hand she's this little lost puppy you're supposed to feel sorry for and on the other hand she's your bratty little sister getting smug when she gets what she wants.

I can buy her becoming the Black Canary if this season can do a personality/attitude/behavior overhaul on her. Otherwise, I can't just buy her as-is as the Black Canary. I thought Sara was really awesome in the role of "The Canary" (even though I was mad it wasn't Laurel just because of the comics), and I want to see Laurel have to go through her own crucible this season to kind of burn away what was and make room for regrowth.

I have no problem accepting Thea as having become that skilled, considering who her father is, what his "profession" really is, the fact that it's been 5 months, and the fact that she was pretty well able to take care of herself previous to living with Merlyn. Not sure I buy the "Dad" part yet, but we'll see what happens.

The Felicity scene with Oliver when she talks to him about his feelings and his grief and stuff just seemed so forced. And almost anyone else would've been fine in that scene. I can understand using her and their pseudo-relationship in that scene only because it gave her character the freedom to approach Ray Palmer about the job, but it just felt "off".

Same with the funeral. Like, I am glad that they used the funeral and Sara's death to approach grieving and stuff, but man... None of those emotions felt real to me. I realize that Felicity and Sara got on pretty well (remember when Sara corrected Felicity's foot spacing when Felicity was training on the dummy?) after the initial jealousy and whatever, but it was hard to think she was -that- affected. Laurel's reaction almost seemed TOO much, and everyone else's reaction was just... not what I would've expected, or way too little.

Diggle's wanting to name his daughter Sara was a really sweet touch, but the dialog there (and in a lot of places) just felt.. poorly written and even well-less executed. I was drawn out of the episode rather often just by the poor execution of the writing. It just felt awkward and bulky in a lot of places.

The flashbacks aren't giving us "enough" yet. Not sure what of, but just not "enough". I am looking forward to seeing what happened in HK, and I think we'll get quite a bit of Waller in those. And as Justin said, we're only 2 episodes in, so I don't think we can be so harsh in our criticisms just yet.

I -am- looking forward to see where this is going. I know a lot of this sounds like harsh criticism or that I didn't enjoy the episode, but I really actually did. I voted it an 8.

I think this does really give us room for a lot of growth and does create a lot of potential going forward. I just hope the writers are up to the task!

 

[The Guard]

Very emotional intro. Some of Amell's best acting work in a long time. Nice moment between he and Diggle on the rooftop.

Very good action.

I don't care for Oliver's mask. It seems to make turning his head difficult. Anyone notice that at the beginning?

Roy once again says like, nothing.

Brandon Routh is starting to slip back into Clark Kent territory, which I found kind of odd.

Katie Cassidy is just...she's just a terrible actress. She cannot do overt emotion, crying etc without coming across as silly. They need to make her a silent, subtle brooder and fast.

Overall, they're setting up a decent whodunit with some solid red herrings and possible murderers. Curious where they're going for the bigger story of the season, though.

 

[Boy Scout]

Yeah.It's as if they were so lost for ideas,someone just said "Who shot J.R was big back in the day.Let's just do that and nobody will notice."

I guess what I don't understand is why they thought they needed to make it a mystery.

I think he was at his best in the scene with Dig and you can see some of the stuff he was feeling bubbling to the surface.Still,I was expecting something more.

Fair enough.

I felt bad for her,because you can tell she's really outside her comfort zone when they make her go there for those scenes.It's like you can see her thinking "You hired me for the perky blond with the one liners,this stuff should be going to Katie."But this is what the Felicity shippers want,so that's what we're getting...

I don't know. She's usually very good at delivering emotional dialogue.

It might've gone on a bit long,I'll say that.

Yeah, it did.

Good review,I pretty much agree.

Thanks.

I loved the motorcycle joust, but I do get really really bored of them showing the stuntmen popping wheelies and doing stoppies and otherwise just being total squids.

All that stuff took me out of the scene.

I have no problem accepting Thea as having become that skilled, considering who her father is, what his "profession" really is, the fact that it's been 5 months, and the fact that she was pretty well able to take care of herself previous to living with Merlyn. Not sure I buy the "Dad" part yet, but we'll see what happens.

I don't think the writers are as interested in portraying realistic combat training as they'd have you believe. Just look at Roy.

RE: Thea referring to Malcolm as "dad": I thought she was just being sassy.

The Felicity scene with Oliver when she talks to him about his feelings and his grief and stuff just seemed so forced. And almost anyone else would've been fine in that scene. I can understand using her and their pseudo-relationship in that scene only because it gave her character the freedom to approach Ray Palmer about the job, but it just felt "off".

I also feel secondhand resentment over her implication that Oliver was holding her back from doing more with her life.

...I realize that Felicity and Sara got on pretty well (remember when Sara corrected Felicity's foot spacing when Felicity was training on the dummy?) after the initial jealousy and whatever, but it was hard to think she was -that- affected.

Felicity has always been emotional. I wasn't surprised to see her break down, especially considering the fact that I felt she and Sara shared their own little bond.

Laurel's reaction almost seemed TOO much...

Cassidy was trying a little too hard, yeah.

The flashbacks aren't giving us "enough" yet. Not sure what of, but just not "enough". I am looking forward to seeing what happened in HK, and I think we'll get quite a bit of Waller in those. And as Justin said, we're only 2 episodes in, so I don't think we can be so harsh in our criticisms just yet.

Agreed. I just hate that they brought Tommy back for such an inconsequential story.

 

[Verick808]

The only scene I felt Cassidy was laying it on a little heavy was the beginning of the episode. Fortunately, as the series continues, I think we will see less and less of the emotional Laurel. I think we saw more than enough of that last season. After that Felicity seemed to be laying it down even harder than Laurel despite being nowhere near as close to her. I felt like it was for the sake of Ollicity and I hope I don't have to watch her cry every other episode. I liked her joining the cast because she was easy going and bubbly. Not because I wanted to see her angst over Oliver.

I think they are making it such a big mystery because they are bringing a Tommy back. The Lazarus pit isn't all that great for your sanity, especially if your supposedly dead. Otherwise the mystery won't pay off. Either that or it's someone from his flashback and they don't want us knowing before the flashback arc is far enough along.

I'm fine with Thea becoming so skilled so quickly. This may be a more grounded approach to Arrow than seen in the comics but it's still a comic book world and who trains you is often more important than how long you trained. From what I've seen in the promo for the next episode her training was far from ordinary.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I guess what I don't understand is why they thought they needed to make it a mystery.

Probably because they intend the person to be a surprise to the audience (somebody like Thea). Alternatively, it's just someone they want to keep from Ollie (such as Merlyn). In that scenario, they could privately reveal it without showing it to everyone. If it's a new character, the best reason to keep it a secret is because they wanted a red herring with Komodo.

So those are three explanations.

 

[Loki882]

I still kind of feel that if it had been Merlyn, then they'd have just gone ahead and shown him since he's going to be the obvious suspect anyway. Plus I don't think that Sara would have reacted the way that she did if it was Merlyn.

 

[Lencho01]

I thought the episode was ok, but it felt a little off to me.

 

[Boy Scout]

Probably because they intend the person to be a surprise to the audience (somebody like Thea).

Well, obviously. But I feel that they could have gone about it differently.

Alternatively, it's just someone they want to keep from Ollie (such as Merlyn).

The audience isn't Oliver. Jut because they want to keep him in the dark doesn't necessarily mean that we should be right there with him.

If it's a new character, the best reason to keep it a secret is because they wanted a red herring with Komodo.

That's weak.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Probably the weakest episode since the first half of season 1. After the fun premiere, kind of disappointing.

 

[Glassjaw]

Another strong episode. These episodes have had great action scenes and some great dialogue exchanges, which makes me the happiest. Now that we know all the kick ass stuff the ever growing number of heroes on this show can do, I always relish any great dialogue scenes.

I think people were spoilt with the high octane Deathstroke episodes last season. Not every episode can end in a huge cliffhanger, or have a massive 'did not see that coming' moment. If it did, we'd have like 2 characters left alive and nothing would surprise us any more. After the hugeness of the last arc of season 2, things are more intimate and personal this season. And I'm loving it.

 

[haephestus]

I was pretty unsatisfied with this episode. Although, to be fair, I'm still a little peeved about the final moments of the premier episode.

I thought that everyone's reaction to Sara's death seemed a little off. I can't believe that Roy didn't contact Sin to let her know that her close friend had died. Unless Sin died and I forgot it? I can somewhat understand Felicity being upset, but it seemed a little OTT given that I don't recall she and Sara being particularly close, especially as Sara re-appeared at the time when Felicity seemed to first be developing serious feelings for Oliver.

I can understand Oliver shutting down emotionally, but I still think we could have been shown a private moment of mourning. Some little hint that Sara meant something to him. Last season they had a somewhat epic reunion and briefly rekindled their love affair before Sara was forced to abandon her family, friends and home to rejoin the League in order to help Oliver to save the city.

Diggle's reaction was bizarre. Did Lyla and Sara even meet? Did Diggle and Lyla name their daughter something else and then decide to change her name after a couple of weeks to Sara? It struck me as really odd that they would name their daughter after Sara.

And Laurel was ... Laurel-like. I can't believe that she didn't tell her father. If she's worried that he'd be upset now by hearing the news, imagine how he will feel when he finds out that Team Arrow has been lying to him and that Sara died weeks/months/whanever ago.

The Komodo storyline was also a little weak. 20 assassins use bows and arrows, but only one of them wears a mask. And what will people at Palmer's shindig say to the media - there were three "Arrows" fighting. A green one, a red one and a black one, but only refer to the green one as "Arrow" in all reports and articles? Surely it is time for Oliver to adopt or someone to assign him with the "Green Arrow" name?

Also, I couldn't believe Oliver turning his back on Komodo to have a heart to heart with Laurel and then just leaving him there for the police to capture. Maybe I missed it, but it seemed that Komodo had only been hit by a single arrow, as opposed to properly restrained. Surely Komodo had the skills to defeat a few police officers. Oliver was hit with an arrow during his motorcyle jousting session with Komodo, yet he apparently just walked it off.

I loved season 2 of Arrow, but this season just seems a little "off" to me. Maybe my expectations are just too high. Or maybe I'm just bitter about Sara's death. I do hope that we learn more about Ray Palmer soon. I completely missed that he was meant to be a Starling City native until this episode. And I wouldn't mind some more details about how Team Arrow is staying in business. Why would Queen Consolidated just allow Verdant, which appeared to be a successful business, to sit vacant? What happened to Oliver's back-up "cave"? How is Team Arrow even staying in business? Is Oliver using what little money he has left to pay for all his crime fighting equipment, Roy's new armour, medical supplies, arrows, etc? Is Lyla supporting Diggle? Who is financially supporting Roy? Is Felicity sharing her meagre salary with the entire Team Arrow (while still setting aside enough money for her great little dresses)? If the show didn't make such a huge deal about Oliver being broke in season 2, I wouldn't be so concerned about the fact that other than Oliver not living in a mansion and Felicity having a "day job", nothing seems to have changed.

 

[Verick808]

You realize Sara died the same night Diggle became a father right? The first two episodes are over the course of a couple of days.

 

[haephestus]

You realize Sara died the same night Diggle became a father right?

Nope. My mistake.

I thought some time, like a week or so, had passed between Lyla having the baby and the scene between Laurel and Sara on the rooftop. Still, I'm surprised that Lyla and Diggle hadn't already decided on a name. And I'm also surprised that even if they hadn't decided on a name, they would name their daughter after someone they barely knew.

 

[regnak]

And Laurel was ... Laurel-like. I can't believe that she didn't tell her father. If she's worried that he'd be upset now by hearing the news, imagine how he will feel when he finds out that Team Arrow has been lying to him and that Sara died weeks/months/whanever ago.

She wasn't worried about him being upset. She was going to tell him until his heart med reminder went off. She is worried about him dying from a heart attack if he finds out.

 

[Human Torch]

Spoiler

I was pretty unsatisfied with this episode. Although, to be fair, I'm still a little peeved about the final moments of the premier episode.

I thought that everyone's reaction to Sara's death seemed a little off. I can't believe that Roy didn't contact Sin to let her know that her close friend had died. Unless Sin died and I forgot it? I can somewhat understand Felicity being upset, but it seemed a little OTT given that I don't recall she and Sara being particularly close, especially as Sara re-appeared at the time when Felicity seemed to first be developing serious feelings for Oliver.

I can understand Oliver shutting down emotionally, but I still think we could have been shown a private moment of mourning. Some little hint that Sara meant something to him. Last season they had a somewhat epic reunion and briefly rekindled their love affair before Sara was forced to abandon her family, friends and home to rejoin the League in order to help Oliver to save the city.

Diggle's reaction was bizarre. Did Lyla and Sara even meet? Did Diggle and Lyla name their daughter something else and then decide to change her name after a couple of weeks to Sara? It struck me as really odd that they would name their daughter after Sara.

And Laurel was ... Laurel-like. I can't believe that she didn't tell her father. If she's worried that he'd be upset now by hearing the news, imagine how he will feel when he finds out that Team Arrow has been lying to him and that Sara died weeks/months/whanever ago.

The Komodo storyline was also a little weak. 20 assassins use bows and arrows, but only one of them wears a mask. And what will people at Palmer's shindig say to the media - there were three "Arrows" fighting. A green one, a red one and a black one, but only refer to the green one as "Arrow" in all reports and articles? Surely it is time for Oliver to adopt or someone to assign him with the "Green Arrow" name?

Also, I couldn't believe Oliver turning his back on Komodo to have a heart to heart with Laurel and then just leaving him there for the police to capture. Maybe I missed it, but it seemed that Komodo had only been hit by a single arrow, as opposed to properly restrained. Surely Komodo had the skills to defeat a few police officers. Oliver was hit with an arrow during his motorcyle jousting session with Komodo, yet he apparently just walked it off.

I loved season 2 of Arrow, but this season just seems a little "off" to me. Maybe my expectations are just too high. Or maybe I'm just bitter about Sara's death. I do hope that we learn more about Ray Palmer soon. I completely missed that he was meant to be a Starling City native until this episode. And I wouldn't mind some more details about how Team Arrow is staying in business. Why would Queen Consolidated just allow Verdant, which appeared to be a successful business, to sit vacant? What happened to Oliver's back-up "cave"? How is Team Arrow even staying in business? Is Oliver using what little money he has left to pay for all his crime fighting equipment, Roy's new armour, medical supplies, arrows, etc? Is Lyla supporting Diggle? Who is financially supporting Roy? Is Felicity sharing her meagre salary with the entire Team Arrow (while still setting aside enough money for her great little dresses)? If the show didn't make such a huge deal about Oliver being broke in season 2, I wouldn't be so concerned about the fact that other than Oliver not living in a mansion and Felicity having a "day job", nothing seems to have changed.

Great post.

 

[haephestus]

She wasn't worried about him being upset. She was going to tell him until his heart med reminder went off. She is worried about him dying from a heart attack if he finds out.

I interpreted it as Laurel being worried that by upsetting her father, his emotional distress would trigger another heart attack (or whatever his health issue is). My point was that however upset he may be in that moment, I presume he will be even more upset, and therefore even more likely to suffer further health issues, when he finds out that Laurel (and Team Arrow) have kept the truth from him for however much time passes between Sara's death and him learning the truth.

Team Arrow robbed him of a last chance to see Sara (i.e. to view her body). And he wasn't invited to their impromptu "funeral" for Sara. And he's being denied the opportunity to assist Team Arrow in bring Sara's killer to justice.

Not to mention the fact that he'll also then be forced to lie to his ex-wife so as not to further damage the relationship between Laurel and her mother (or I guess he could tell Dinah the truth).

All IMHO. I guess if Laurel knows that her father's medical issues are temporary and if he's expected to be completely healthy again in the near future (i.e. a few weeks at most), then maybe, just maybe, her decision to keep Sara's death from him is justifiable.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I already predicting episode 3 cliffhanger will be bigger and truly unexpected......