Discussion in 'Arrow' started by herolee10, Nov 13, 2015.
I thought it was a Smallville reference.
Several people have said that, but it's important to remember that Thea said movie, not on TV. And AOU just came out this year, so it's still relatively fresh on people's minds (they'd catch the reference pretty quickly). It was an AOU reference.
The big problem here is, that we didn't get Vandal Savage. We got Hath-Set, who's been given the name Vandal Savage. The Vandal Savage most of us know, slept next to a meteorite 80.000 years ago, and he's been immortal ever since, doing all sorts of shenanigans across history. Vandal just isn't some pricky Priest who got shunned by a Priestress, then continues to hunt her and her lover down, because he didn't get some.
Felicity became a popular character because her scenes were usually straightforward and comedic and Rickards is good at that. But then they decided to take her from upbeat, lovable tech sidekick to love interest. Which came with a huge increase in dramatic scenes and she just doesn't do a great job of conveying aspects. She either comes off as overly whiny or a complete *****, viewers come off annoyed with her in those scenes when most of the time the writers want people to be sympathetic toward her. Now I don't think there were notes from producers for her to be whiny or a complete *****, so, I can't put that on them, that's on her. As for putting it on 50% writing, they clearly have blinders on for Felicity so they aren't looking from an objective view so they continue to write those scenes even though they need to limit them.
People are acting like changing some things about villains for different media is something new, it's not. It's called an "adaptation" for a reason.
And I'm allowed to dislike that adaptation.
Really don't get Berlanti and co. constant need to alter a character's origins from the comics.
Unless it is a DC/WB directive I just don't understand it.
Sometimes it's great when they rework Origins. Take Darhk. He's practically a nobody in the comics. On the show, he's just a fun and amazing villain. Then take characters like Komodo and Vertigo, who are great antagonists in the comics, and they get turned into villains of the week or are pale shadows of their comic selves.
Then we have Vandal Savage, who isn't really terrible, but has fallen victim to needless change. And ultimately he isn't even Vandal Savage anymore. He's been giving a few traits, basically the appearance of Savage, his part in history and the Meteorite. But at least 90% of the character is all Hath-Set. Background, motives, mannerism, abilities.
Because when it comes to her relationship with Oliver, Felicity tends to be really selfish and stupid.
I mean, last season she actually thought she could sneak out Oliver from a place full of trained assassins, this season she distanced herself from Oliver because she thought she was losing herself and refused to talk with Oliver when he asked what was wrong, and now she has the guts to track Oliver like a stalker when he doesn't want to share something instead of giving him space, makes Barry give her something she knows Oliver doesn't want to share yet, and acts like she is the victim when, as Ollie said, he just found out something really shocking and needed some time to process things in his own.
And to think she used to be my favourite character.
This crossover thing might have killed my enjoyment of The Flash. I was already bored out of my skull with Arrow, but the way they handled Barry in these two episodes seriously pissed me off. I mean, if Savage's only power is that he's immortal, then he should be able to be knocked out like any other person. So why can't Barry just give him a good old supersonic punch before the bastard even knows what hit him? But no, let's have Barry stand there while all of the people around him who DON'T have superpowers take him on. The writing on these shows has been awful this season.
Oh yeah, and the hawks look stupid and are terrible actors. That ancient Egypt scene was hilariously bad.
I liked part 1 better, it was funnier and had the better action sequences IMO. I personally have no prior interest in Vandal Savage or the Hawk's bar Vandal's part in Young Justice and Hawkgirl in the JL toons, so I enjoyed the Egyptian origin story and the flashbacks, and I like all the actors cast in those roles, the crossover has increased my interest in LoT.
This board sides with the man 99% of the time but I thought Ollie hiding his son secret from Felicity just set him back to season 3 stupidity. In the real world adult couples don't hide important things from each other, all he had to do was tell her and ask her to keep it between them due to his petty ex, simple, but alas forced drama is created *sigh*.
Poor Cisco, granted Kendra looks like she could eat him alive but dude has so much heart and is the most likable character on either show IMO. Kendra in her Priestess outfit was a sight to behold!
All those geniuses and none of them thought to bring a vacuum for the Vandal dust?
Because a scorned guy who was in love with Hawkgirl and is always trying to kill her and her lover is more compelling to the fans Berlanti and co. pander to?
Just my theory
I don't see any problem with combining Hath-Set and Savage. It would have been too complicated to do them both.
In this particular case, I think people side with Oliver because Felicity was out of line. Yes, adult couples share things, but Oliver had just found out he has a son. That is huge. Keeping things quite before being 100% sure the kid is really his makes perfect sense, needing some time to deal with the news, and see how things go is normal too. What is not normal is to track your boyfriend, demand someone to give you information and then act like you're the victim. The first time Felicity knew Oliver was a dad 15 seconds after Oliver, he barely had enough time to go talk to Samantha before Felicty made it all about her, and how Ollie was the worst because he needed some time to think before sharing such huge news.
The second time it's Oliver being an idiot because he could tell Felicity and Samantha would never know, but the first time Felicity was the one who acted like a child.
Well they could have had that and still had his true origin.
I really only wanted a proper Vandal Savage. And if they had to combine them both, I think they could have done a better job. Like still making Savage an immortal from 80.000 years ago, who filled the role of an Egyptian Priest in ancient times. And he should have had some proper motivations, instead of just being horny at the time.
The reason she tracked him is because he was blatantly lying to her again, just like in the bad old days, he was showing all the signs we've come to know, same as when he dismissed the rest of his team from the first showdown with Vandal Savage, something he'd moved away from this season, as Laurel told him a couple of eps ago "You're not in charge anymore." When you have the terrible track record Oliver has you don't get the leeway he wanted when it's so obvious he's withholding something big from the person he loves and has hurt before with his secrecy.
When Felicity thought she was too focused on her relationship with Oliver and started putting some distance, even avoiding him, while refusing to give Oliver an explanation, Oliver respected her whishes and didn't spy on her. The least Felicity could have done is return the favor.
The difference is Oliver has been so untrustworthy so many times to those closest to him that he hasn't earned that IMO.
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't
I do agree that it would have been nice to have the caveman origin, but I can understand why they took the route they did.
I disagree, even if Oliver made mistakes in the past, that doesn't mean Felicity has any right to act the way she did.
It's not even the same situation. They basically went on a short time out, as Felicity had to figure out their relationship. Here Ollie clearly is keeping a secret, and very obviously lying into her face when she asks him about it. Then she tracks Ollie and Barry down, because she needs to tell them that they figured out how to beat Savage.
It's not like she was actively trying to uncover what Ollie was lying about. And not her fault that Barry made it super obvious that he was hiding something. Couldn't even properly superspeed something into his pocket.
You are defined by your past, when you are a serial liar like Oliver you can't expect people to just go along with what you want as it nearly always ends badly.
Even without the Caveman Origin, I simply wish he would have acted more like Savage. Give him the Hath-Set origin, but still let him act mostly like Savage. My problem is that he's mostly Hath-Set, with a sprinkle of Savage, when it should have been the other way around.