Arrow Arrow Season 4 Episode 8: "Legends of Yesterday"

You are defined by your past, when you are a serial liar like Oliver you can't expect people to just go along with what you want as it nearly always ends badly.
Oliver killing people has nothing to do with this. If any character that has ever done something bad doesn't deserve any privacy, Arrow will become big brother.
You can say that Ollie's past mistake justifiy Felicity's actions, I say they don't. If they started over after the end of season 3, Felicity can't use Olliver past to excuse herself, because is unfair, and unhealthy. They will never be able to stay together if Felicity can use Ollie's past against him.

And accusing Oliver of not trusting her when she was literally tracking him and spying on him makes her a huge hypocrite.

So yeah, Ollie is stupid for not telling the truth in the second timelime, even though I still think it makes sense to wait and see how things go, but the first time? he did nothing wrong, Felicity did, which is why people are taking his side.
 
Final rating

1.4 18-49 (ties series high)
3.66m viewers
 
I really enjoyed the second part of the crossover. It was very cool to have all of our heroes from two shows working together in such a large group. I was glad that Laurel joined the gang in this episode too. It was fun seeing them hang out in that house, and it was great to see them all fighting side by side in the climax.

The episode did some pretty cool stuff with time travel, featured some more nice interactions between Barry and Oliver, gave us more history and development for Kendra and Carter and their Hawk legacies, and had Vandal Savage doing a lot of cool stuff as the villain. I had plenty of fun watching this.
 
Even without the Caveman Origin, I simply wish he would have acted more like Savage. Give him the Hath-Set origin, but still let him act mostly like Savage. My problem is that he's mostly Hath-Set, with a sprinkle of Savage, when it should have been the other way around.

Well I am optimistic we'll see him acting like the Vandal Savage we know in LoT
 
Final rating

1.4 18-49 (ties series high)
3.66m viewers
That's up three tenths from last week, and four tenths from Arrow's current season average.

And the only other time Arrow ever hit a 1.4 was last year's crossover.

Flash is really incredible. Arrow didn't bump Flash's ratings at all while Flash bumped Arrow's as high as they've ever been.
 
Loved it.
Felicity demanding Oliver tell her the truth reminded me of S2 Felicity.
The start over was better executed. Loved the battle scene.
The actor playing Vandal Savage was cool.
Didn't think I'd enjoy it this much.
 
Even without the Caveman Origin, I simply wish he would have acted more like Savage. Give him the Hath-Set origin, but still let him act mostly like Savage. My problem is that he's mostly Hath-Set, with a sprinkle of Savage, when it should have been the other way around.

Plus, the whole "my love/will never be your love stuff" seemed to come out of nowhere.
 
Flash is really incredible. Arrow didn't bump Flash's ratings at all while Flash bumped Arrow's as high as they've ever been.

Well thats just because most of the people that watch Arrow watch Flash. But that extra 0.3-0.4 18-49 Flash gets every week doesn't watch Arrow.
 
I do know three people at my job who watch Arrow but not Flash (well, some watch Flash but are still on season one). Then again, none of them would be factored in because they don't watch live, but on Hulu.
 
Here's vandal savage profile and how his immortality works


Vandal Savage
New Earth

1985 - 2011

That was actually only a relatively brief period of portrayal. Usually his immortality is simply "yes", to the point that he has occasionally tried to destroy the whole planet in ( possibly futile! ) attempts to end his own life.

The show kind of nerfed him in that aspect, though I suppose one can hope that following his "death", he ends up in a state where he no longer needs to kill Hawks to maintain his immortality ( from having sucked up excess Nth metal energy from the destroyed Staff of Horus, say ).
 
It was fun, but VERY clunky.

I'd like to see a future cross-over which didn't have to have special appearances by such a huge range of characters and which didn't have to devote a lot of time to exposition to introduce a number of characters with relatively complex and "unique" (at least for the current DC TV universe) origin stories.
 
And accusing Oliver of not trusting her when she was literally tracking him and spying on him makes her a huge hypocrite.

Again, she tracked both Barry and Ollie down, because they had important information on Savage. Then stumbled on the information, because Barry fails at hiding things. There was no spy work involved.
 
It was fun, but VERY clunky.

I'd like to see a future cross-over which didn't have to have special appearances by such a huge range of characters and which didn't have to devote a lot of time to exposition to introduce a number of characters with relatively complex and "unique" (at least for the current DC TV universe) origin stories.

Next year might be a crossover between all three shows. It's unlikely, granted, but I wouldn't rule it out.
 
Let Arrow charecters who aren't Olicity and Flash charecters who aren't Bisco get some good quality time next year.
 
I'm still surprised on how the tables have turned when it comes to the perception of Felicity's character.

Prior to Season 3, A LOT of people were crazy about her character. I could barely find anyone who didn't like her. Heck, I was crazy about her character and I will go on the record by saying that I was one of the fans that stated that it would be hard for me to watch the show if Felicity was tragically killed off.

What a difference a year and an half makes. I honestly can't tell if it's bad writing or Emily's acting skills that make her character come off as somewhat unbearable to watch whenever she has an "emotional" scene nowadays.
 
We're not going to start turning on Felicity because of once scene, are we? I know season three wasn't that long ago, but they've done a good job of redeeming (for lack of a better word) the character since the season premiere. A slip up here and there isn't going to hurt anybody.
 
Oliver killing people has nothing to do with this. If any character that has ever done something bad doesn't deserve any privacy, Arrow will become big brother.
The quote you have doesn't mention killing, so I'm not sure why you said that. Is it a reference to another part of the discussion that isn't quoted?
You can say that Ollie's past mistake justifiy Felicity's actions, I say they don't. If they started over after the end of season 3, Felicity can't use Olliver past to excuse herself, because is unfair, and unhealthy. They will never be able to stay together if Felicity can use Ollie's past against him.
I'm sorry, but Oliver's actions are his actions. If he doesn't learn from his mistakes, then that's what's keeping them from being able to start over. He set the precedent. She's just following his lead.
And accusing Oliver of not trusting her when she was literally tracking him and spying on him makes her a huge hypocrite.
If someone doesn't trust you, you're not going to trust them easily either. She's used her not very well judgement and trusted Oliver before and that didn't work out. She seems to have learned from that.
So yeah, Ollie is stupid for not telling the truth in the second timelime, even though I still think it makes sense to wait and see how things go, but the first time? he did nothing wrong, Felicity did, which is why people are taking his side.
They both did things wrong.

God bless you! God bless everyone!
 
Well, and I am not trying to be confrontational or rude, but you always seem to see the worst in Oliver but approve of every other character. So it's not like you're giving an unbiased opinion here, either.
I see the worst because he's done the worst things.
Diggle had his reasons for being mad at Oliver and not trusting him, and they were valid. But after 3 seasons of him being supportive and friendly, it was really grating for him to be constantly at Oliver's throat, even for only the first few episodes.
It wasn't grating. It was the most enjoyable Diggle's been since season 2.
As for Laurel, she made some good points but some of her other points were unfair and really, she was the one in the wrong (not telling him about Sara) and she was getting defensive. I appreciate what she was going through and how she felt, but it came off as unreasonable since Oliver was just angry that she didn't say anything about Sara.
Oliver made no comment against her keeping Sara a secret in that argument. He was being a hypocrite about the pit, which was the point. He was just as in the wrong for what he'd done as she was and he had no right to say anything against her for it.
And Felicity does often come off as a self-centered character. I think if the writers are looking for an out for Olicity, that could be it: Felicity's always thinking of herself first and foremost. Every time there's a conflict between the two of them, Felicity's always like "But what about meeeee?" Other than that, she is a great character. She never seems selfish when she's acting normal or goofy or doing Team Arrow stuff. But the writers don't seem to know how to write an argument between the two of them without making her seem like a brat.
Oliver and Felicity are both self-centered. But Felicity was the one who was still helping the team while Oliver had fully abandoned his family, city and friends and had no intention of going back, and still doubted going back after his Thea asked him to and said that they couldn't do this without him.

God bless you! God bless everyone!
 
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Did anybody notice the escaping donkey at the farm around the 6 minute mark?
 
ok I'm done with the gamer news and can finally asnwer some stuff with people I love talking to on shows I like to see.

I liked part 1 better, it was funnier and had the better action sequences IMO. I personally have no prior interest in Vandal Savage or the Hawk's bar Vandal's part in Young Justice and Hawkgirl in the JL toons, so I enjoyed the Egyptian origin story and the flashbacks, and I like all the actors cast in those roles, the crossover has increased my interest in LoT.

oh most definitely part 1 was better I think it's the atmosphere with the writers on flash some how it's more fun they have been slipping up this season but the atmosphere is just more lite there and we all feel it. as to me address you it was only about the security part as far as the flarrow verse is involved . as to the whole DC Tv show so far where security system are involved Thomas Wayne beats them all . serious Malcolm got in with out cutting off a hand and felicity makes sure she faces the elevator door where she claimed they have bio metric security and yet he was there with out her see him come through the entrance every one has to come in from.


the problem is too, we never saw their so called biometric security system too. it's always lip service on that show (and flash) when it comes to that and Thomas wayne put them to shame with Gotham of all places with that.

the only time I think we saw a proper security system was with one of the flash back episodes when waller has Oliver break into his familys company and there was biometric scanner on their door and personal computer there too and it was difficult for him.

but it's just too overly hard to even bother to reuse those props with it in any of the lair's in this show? it's just plain odd. from the show runners



This board sides with the man 99% of the time but I thought Ollie hiding his son secret from Felicity just set him back to season 3 stupidity. In the real world adult couples don't hide important things from each other, all he had to do was tell her and ask her to keep it between them due to his petty ex, simple, but alas forced drama is created *sigh*. :csad:

oh not me if you look at my history of post in the arrow thread where you always saw me agree with primal slay and for good reason .

I've never sided once with Oliver with his pre island self. the only time he was likable to me was on the island that's when he started to develop moral's and ethic's . but he still had a problem of not keeping secrets which he picked up from his parents and waller entered the picturehe never stopped with it and he just got worse with the secrets, he was so bad at it which alway always came back to bite later refused to learn from it.


what went wrong is everything in season 2 we were supposed to side with Laurel but the writers made her attack sara after the latter sister saved her and laurel was in a messed up mental state when she did that and the it was that lance family dinner which Oliver attended which made other see laurel as the villain when it was all oliver fault it was just all delayed reaction cause she didn't get to vent anddeal with that cause both her and oliver were supposedly presumed dead and she never saw a psychologist for all that time prior to sara's come back .

Remember that Time I said I dispise soap opera's well as I was trying say and I think I didn't put the message across too well.

the problem is certain writers do certain thing's to destroy certain characters with these plots . and someone like Oliver who was the cause at that time get's away scott free.

cause of bad chose's of executionput on another character. they made laurel do those things when she shouldn't have and messed her up and it was him to blame. it was bad timing with the execution and something she should have dealt with prior to that. I've always said Oliver's pre island self was an A Hole I don't defend male or female. if they are being jerksor more then this, I call them out on it. always .

this is what's happening here too. That said. I agree they shouldn't hide these thing from each other a he went back on his word about "no more
secrets.
" he was black maled though but he didn't have to full accept all the terms but basicallu I don't blame the mother of his child cause he cause this mess back in the day he got his mother invovled.

the problem is here isn't that it was hero work related or not, it's that every time he does so with any secret, that when it bites at him it bleeds into the time he's trying to save the city or another city and it costs people of that city their lives. He was so distracted due to their realationship falling apartsCentral city paid the price as barry said.

Besides his relation ship sadly. it's never been a good thing and sadly joe in flash has the same habit and very costly.

lol I had talk with that baby sister of mine again that watch's the shows and she stated that Joe wouldn't like to hear that share's the very same bad bad habit of his with Oliver /green arrow of all people. Of which he likes to dump up on.

I said good maybe he'll drop that bad habbit of secret's, Joe west him self does cause he does them for the wrong people and for the wrong reason's him self too.

Someone has to break that cycle.







Poor Cisco, granted Kendra looks like she could eat him alive but dude has so much heart and is the most likable character on either show IMO. Kendra in her Priestess outfit was a sight to behold! :wow:

True dat True dat

All those geniuses and none of them thought to bring a vacuum for the Vandal dust? :nuhu: :lmao:


yup this why I said this

yep but looking at their record protect hawk girl and more this isn't s surprise ether. It can also be said they couldn't have known but with all the stuff that's happen to them with the pit and what barry has experienced him self....

but on another note, seeing that barry of all people did that in his own town, it makes you wonder, about both sand demon and Atom smasher remain's now too. Did barry leave their remain's where he killed them as well too? if so with his forensic / CSI status that would a major mistake.

I hope he's not just leaving body's around. I had be thing about that most of the day at work. .


That was actually only a relatively brief period of portrayal. Usually his immortality is simply "yes", to the point that he has occasionally tried to destroy the whole planet in ( possibly futile! ) attempts to end his own life.

The show kind of nerfed him in that aspect, though I suppose one can hope that following his "death", he ends up in a state where he no longer needs to kill Hawks to maintain his immortality ( from having sucked up excess Nth metal energy from the destroyed Staff of Horus, say ).
yeah I'm not even worry about that any more his immortality has nothing to do with what a danger he is to the world . it's that he always ether helps dictators to almost take over the world or tries to take over and rule the world him self ain some fasicst way cause he was born in a savage war lord period in a way he's kinda like a more mature Grodd
basically he was more of a ghoul then Ras. only cause he too people from his blood line's organs

which would be Roy and his little girl I only put up the bio though sh show case partly why his immortality work that way only they made it the hawks just being killed it was similar but different people fro his blood line with the Harper family blood line Roy and Guardian are apart of .



someone stated that Savages only power was immortality, it's not his strength was and intellect were enhanced as well due to that meteorite so much so that he even gave super man problems and Ra's al ghoul where villain's are concerned was the only character that could stand up to him cause of his own Enhanced strength and agility due to the pit and his virtual immortality.


I think the only person/character from team arrow that can handle him right now is thea ,since she kicked him out of the apartment building.
As I said in earlier pages I don't think she realizes that she her self is virtually immortal . but then again the show has been not showing the other gifts the pit should have given her ether.I agree we'll have to see in lot if he be the dictator creating and world conquest vandal save we all know . not the hath set version we got here. Vandal savage is more ambitious and more of the threat to the world then some that kills cause he was horny. he ma have blade obsession but was was a poor excuse of jack the ripper.
 
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We're not going to start turning on Felicity because of once scene, are we? I know season three wasn't that long ago, but they've done a good job of redeeming (for lack of a better word) the character since the season premiere. A slip up here and there isn't going to hurt anybody.

While she has been good for a few episodes this season, every time that we've seen her have "emotional" problems with Oliver, she regresses back to her Season 3 behavior.

I mean look how she was written when she was having an identity crisis. And then when you add that to her behavior in "Legends of Yesterday", she comes off as a hypocrite.

So far, the show has only displayed that Felicity only cares about her needs and doesn't give a crap about others feel if their issues conflict with hers.
 
I don't think that Felicity is being portrayed as self-centered. I think that her complaints regarding Oliver's secrecy arise from the fact that two people who are supposed to be a couple can't work as a team if they constantly keep important information from each other. It hurts the teamwork, the morale, and the trust needed for a serious relationship.

And I think Felicity got upset because this wasn't an isolated incident; it's a recurring problem that Oliver has. I'm not saying Oliver didn't have good reasons to feel overwhelmed by the news that he has a son. I'm just saying that since this is such a huge change in his life, Felicity deserves to know about it because she has already entered into what is supposed to be a serious, long-lasting romantic relationship. It's hard for two people in such a relationship to function well if one of them is unaware of developments as crucial as this one (the existence of a child from a former relationship).

And Oliver's problem with telling the truth is further highlighted in this episode by the fact that he admitted that he didn't even know when he would tell Felicity the news. So for all we know, he could have put off telling her the truth indefinitely until she found out for herself through other means. Things like that tend to hurt teamwork and trust.
 
I don't tend to complain too much about Felicity, she doesn't seem to annoy me as much as she does others, but yeah, in this episode she was insufferable. So what if he told Barry? This was very clearly a personal issue that he doesn't need to share with anyone he doesn't want to, at least not until he got the full picture.
 
I wanted to bite Felicity in Barry's lab.
The reason someone hides something is cause they don't want you to see it, don't ask to see it.
Barry is not your brother, boyfriend, son, whatever, he's just an acquaintance you had a crush on.
 
Ok this really bothered me.

Felicity gets the "betamax tap" in her hands and I literally counted to 7 and she somehow had it playing without a player.

Even if she has a tape player it would take longer than 7 second to get it playing.

I don't know why but it really freaking bothers me when they have her do things in a blink of an eye that would be impossible. I know we are supposed to suspend believe but please keep it somewhat believe able.

What she do cram it into the CD drive.
 

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