Arrow Arrow Season 5 Episode 21: "Honour Thy Fathers"

[Slade W]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 21-Honour Thy Fathers

CHASE CONTINUES TO TORMENT OLIVER - Oliver (Stephen Amell) returns to the mayor's office and faces one of his most pressing issues yet - the forced release of dozens of violent criminals prosecuted by Adrian Chase (Josh Segarra). Meanwhile, a crate is delivered to Oliver's office containing a mysterious corpse encased in concrete. Laura Belsey directed the episode written by Marc Guggenheim & Sarah Tarkoff (#521). Original airdate 5/10/2017.

 

[Slade W]

https://youtu.be/SDKOZSNYNyY

 

[Slade W]

I thought it was ok. It was pretty ridiculous how Chase could access the footage of Robert killing the man (unless he has his own Felicity or something). The scene where Chase surrendered was weird too, although I guess it makes sense that if there was one thing that could get such a reaction from him, it would involve his father, who seems to have been the only person he truly loved. I still think the scene could have been done better though.

 

[NotNickFury]

I did like Lance's scenes with Wild Dog. If anyone gets what it feels like to try and be there for your daughters, it's Lance.

 

[shabadoo25]

Lots of issues with this episode.

First, it had some really cringeworthy, poorly written dialogue. I don't have examples, but I remember wincing a couple of times.

Why would Rene embark on anything involving his child until Chase was in custody or in the ground? He turned his daughter into a target or himself into one.

Once again, we see Oliver having a team member (Felicity, natch) get his head straight and then repeating the advice like a mantra to others--Thea for one.

 

[NotNickFury]

Diggle's got a kid, as does Oliver, and both of their kids have been targets in the past. Why would Rene's situation be any different?

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah, Rene's kid is already a potential target, whether Rene's in her life or not.

 

[shabadoo25]

Yeah, Rene's kid is already a potential target, whether Rene's in her life or not.

I'd still think you'd want to fly under the radar as much as possible.

 

[Slade W]

I reckon that Thea or Oliver's line "Chases Oscar winning performance as a decent human being" was a reference to how good Segarra has been this season.

 

[Lencho01]

This episode was kinda weird to me.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

I reckon that Thea or Oliver's line "Chases Oscar winning performance as a decent human being" was a reference to how good Segarra has been this season.

Possibly, but also the fact that he really did seem like a good guy. I was truly beginning to like Chase before the Prometheus reveal. He seemed like a genuinely good person (with a bit of a bad attitude but one that usually played well off more level-headed Oliver). So I think most likely she was referring to the fact that no one saw him being Prometheus coming (including most of the audience, except those who only suspected him just because he was a new character). But yeah, Segarra has killed it this season.

 

[metaphysician]

Even those who suspected him almost always had him pegged as the Vigilante. Its actually kind of clever, though it does leave the Vigilante somewhat bereft of an actual point in the season.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Even those who suspected him almost always had him pegged as the Vigilante. Its actually kind of clever, though it does leave the Vigilante somewhat bereft of an actual point in the season.

The entire point of Vigilante this season very much seems like it was solely to misdirect viewers from Chase.

 

[Slade W]

Even those who suspected him almost always had him pegged as the Vigilante. Its actually kind of clever, though it does leave the Vigilante somewhat bereft of an actual point in the season.

Indeed. They did hint at Adrian possibly being Vigilante IMO, to make us not suspect he is Prometheus. His job in general involves taking down criminals. Adrian featured a lot in episode 7 "Vigilante" and we started to see his darker side. In episode 9 "What We Leave Behind", when Prometheus captured Billy, there was a scene where Adrian convinced Oliver that the cops should be given the order to shoot to kill if they see Prometheus, which convinced Oliver that Prometheus had to be killed and not captured if he came across him as the Green Arrow. This increased the chances of the Green Arrow shooting to kill if he came across Prometheus, which made it an opportune moment to set his trap with Billy in the Prometheus costume.

That scene were Adrian convinced Oliver Prometheus had to be killed was quite smart IMO, as on the surface it seemed like something Vigilante would recommend, who thinks killing is always the option when it comes to criminals, but when you look deeper, it was something that suited Prometheus and his plans.

 

[Syncos]

I thought it was ok. It was pretty ridiculous how Chase could access the footage of Robert killing the man (unless he has his own Felicity or something). The scene where Chase surrendered was weird too, although I guess it makes sense that if there was one thing that could get such a reaction from him, it would involve his father, who seems to have been the only person he truly loved. I still think the scene could have been done better though.

The scene seemed "too easy". Judging from Chase's smirk at the end in his cell, i'd wager that getting captured was all part of his plan. After all, we know he has Oliver's kid (and presumably his mother, or why else would she not have contacted Oliver by now).

Seems like Chase just found an easy moment to let himself get captured where Oliver wouldn't think too hard about it.

 

[Slade W]

The scene seemed "too easy". Judging from Chase's smirk at the end in his cell, i'd wager that getting captured was all part of his plan. After all, we know he has Oliver's kid (and presumably his mother, or why else would she not have contacted Oliver by now).

Seems like Chase just found an easy moment to let himself get captured where Oliver wouldn't think too hard about it.

Agreed. I never thought he was actually giving up completely. There are two episodes left after all, and Oliver still hasn't beaten him in a fight. And, like you said, he has William. I still found the scene to be a weird one to watch. I think it is a mixture of not being used to Chase/Prometheus being vulnerable and not being calm, cool and in control, like how he raised his voice to Oliver when talking about his fathers legacy, which made him look like a child giving out to an adult in my eyes. The way he looked at his sword and knelt down was also weird and kind of funny to me. I guess I feel that, IMO, they should have done the scene differently, as I don't think my reaction to it is the one I was supposed to have to such a scene.

My feeling is that he wants Oliver and his team to think they have won, relax, believe it is all over, and then hit him with the bombshell that he has William (and whatever else he has planned). I imagine it would be more hurtful then, as they will not be expecting something bad to happen, and are not bracing themselves for Prometheus doing something to hurt Oliver, Perhaps he wanted to be taken to ARGUS so he could break Black Siren out too.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Indeed. They did hint at Adrian possibly being Vigilante IMO, to make us not suspect he is Prometheus. His job in general involves taking down criminals. Adrian featured a lot in episode 7 "Vigilante" and we started to see his darker side. In episode 9 "What We Leave Behind", when Prometheus captured Billy, there was a scene where Adrian convinced Oliver that the cops should be given the order to shoot to kill if they see Prometheus, which convinced Oliver that Prometheus had to be killed and not captured if he came across him as the Green Arrow. This increased the chances of the Green Arrow shooting to kill if he came across Prometheus, which made it an opportune moment to set his trap with Billy in the Prometheus costume.

That scene were Adrian convinced Oliver Prometheus had to be killed was quite smart IMO, as on the surface it seemed like something Vigilante would recommend, who thinks killing is always the option when it comes to criminals, but when you look deeper, it was something that suited Prometheus and his plans.

Seeing all this in hindsight, I really appreciate how well the writers have done this season. It's a reveal I'm honestly not sure they could've pulled off in S4, and all these little details in retrospect show how much of a mastermind Chase is, and how intelligent they've been in writing him. It's clear they had the end goal in mind from the beginning here, as opposed to S4 when they had no idea who was in the grave even for months and months as they grew close to the episode where Laurel died. Seat-of-the-pants writing is good for first drafts, folks–but if the first draft is what's going to end up on the air, that's a problem, and I think that's very much what happened in S4. This, though? This is some intelligent, thought-through writing that impresses me greatly.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

I was watching through S1 again and I was surprised to find that Robert actually mentions this incident to Moira in 1x21–interestingly, the exact same episode number that it appears in here, in S5. I'm really impressed by that! They've done a really good job of taking all these little details S1 and fleshing them out.