Asia-Pacific News Thread

[TheGuy]

 

[Legendver2]

If this was the US, those protesters would've been massacred already.

 

[Teelie]

That is hyperbole. Maybe not by much but there would not be a massacre of protesters even if they were a racial minority. I would believe some cops get trigger happy and "accidently" discharge their firearms but it wouldn't be mass shooting either.

 

[TheGuy]

Behind the bamboo curtain: Beijing rings with clues of Xi power struggle

BEIJING -- President Xi Jinping as well as his predecessors Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao appeared on the Tiananmen rostrum in Beijing under tight security on Tuesday, the 70th anniversary of communist China's birth.

They watched a military parade, the first in the Chinese capital in four years and the highlight of the day's celebrations.

The extravaganza showed off an array of new weapons, including the DF-41 intercontinental ballistic missile, which is said to be capable of hitting any part of North America.

Seven years have passed since Xi became China's top leader. His undisputed achievement -- and some may say his only major accomplishment -- is the fierce anti-corruption campaign he launched, going after both powerful leaders and low-level officials.

He has also pushed through a constitutional revision scrapping term limits for the Chinese president, making it possible for him to serve as president for the rest of his life.

But while Xi appears to have scored a resounding victory against his political foes, the afterglow of his triumph looks to be fading. The Chinese economy continues to slow down, partly due to the prolonged trade war, and the unrest in Hong Kong weighs heavily on him.

Amid the festive mood of 70th-anniversary Beijing, there were small but clear hints that Xi's consolidation of power is far from complete.

At the National Art Museum of China in Beijing's Wangfujing shopping district, a painting exhibition to commemorate the anniversary is underway.

In the main pavilion, showcasing "The great dream, path to the rejuvenation of the nation," visitors are greeted by a big picture of a smiling and suit-clad Xi standing by a lake while and surrounded by eight male and female music students.

Interestingly, visitors must go around to the back of Xi's picture to see a rendering of founding father Mao Zedong, holding a straw hat.

To the right of Mao, painted much smaller, is Deng Xiaoping, the former paramount leader who introduced the policy of "reform and opening-up," paving the way for the country's high growth. He is almost sidelined.

The layout suggests Xi is on a drive to become "a great leader" on a par with Mao, surpassing even Deng.

There are as many as four pictures of Xi on display, including one of him returning to the farming village in Shaanxi Province where he spent his youth amid the 1966-1976 Cultural Revolution.

Only Mao rivals Xi in number of pictures on display. As for Jiang and Hu, they have one picture each.

When Deng was in power, statues of Mao, which once towered over various parts of the country, were taken down one after another.

They were regarded as a symbol of the disastrous Cultural Revolution, which victimized countless people and paralyzed the country. Deng led a campaign to include a ban on personality cults in the party constitution to prevent another Mao-style dictatorship. Deng also led the drive to spell out presidential term limits in the national constitution.

Deng's hand-picked successors, Jiang and Hu, followed Deng's path, and there were no art exhibitions blatantly displaying paintings worshipping incumbent leaders.

It was only after the Xi era began that this changed so drastically.

Recently, another work sparked controversy. The painting, which appeared at an exhibition commemorating the 40th anniversary of Deng's "reform and opening-up" policy, depicts a 1979 meeting involving Deng, Xi's late father Xi Zhongxun and others. At the time, the elder Xi was a provincial leader, in Guangdong, yet he, and not the paramount leader, is at the center of the picture.

The piece drew criticism from within the Chinese Communist Party, with some members saying it was part of an effort toward building a cult of personality around Xi.

The smoldering discontent has been reflected in recent official media reports in ever so subtle ways.

On Friday, state-run Xinhua News Agency published an article headlined, "1966: 'Cultural Revolution' The start of the 10-year civil strife."

In describing the Cultural Revolution in a negative light, the article follows a tone that was common before Xi's "new era."

In mid-September, another article pointed to the internal controversy; it was published on the front page of the People's Daily, the party's mouthpiece, as one of the day's top stories.

It was a partial republication of a speech delivered by Xi five years ago at a ceremony marking the 60th anniversary of the establishment of the National People's Congress, China's parliament.

Back then, Qiushi, the party's theoretical journal, published the full text of the speech. In the full version of the speech, there is a passage that refers to the introduction of a term limit system for leading cadres, an achievement of the Deng era.

By republishing the article, the paper seemed to be denying last year's revision to the constitution that abolished those term limits.

There is still lingering debate within the party over that national constitutional revision. The outcome of the debate will directly affect the top leadership reshuffle at the party's next national congress, in 2022.

In his National People's Congress speech of five years ago, Xi said he would govern the country based on the national constitution and stressed the establishment of national governance.

The People's Daily article could be interpreted as a reminder to the president of his own promises.

But then again, the national constitution has already been revised. If one were to follow Xi's words, it could be taken to mean "follow the new constitution," which gives Xi unrivaled powers.

The mystery will need more time to unravel.

In another part of town, at the Beijing Exhibition Center, a 70th anniversary exhibition is under way that Xi recently visited.

Here, the anti-corruption campaign, which is supposed to be the biggest achievement in Xi's "new era," is rather low-profile. Only small photos of heavyweights snared by the crackdown are on display. One picture is of former Politburo Standing Committee member Zhou Yongkang.

This bucks the trend of the past several years and could signal a major change. How the anti-corruption campaign is hailed could give indications about the Xi administration's future.

On Monday, Xi, paid his respects to Mao at the communist state founder's mausoleum in Tiananmen Square, accompanied by the six other Politburo Standing Committee members.

It was the first time they had visited the memorial hall as a group ahead of National Day.

In mid-September, before the visit to the mausoleum, Xi stopped by a newly opened revolution memorial hall in Beijing's Xiangshan. There he gave a speech while standing in front of a big statue of Mao.

Much time has passed since the last time a big Mao statue was erected at a public facility in Beijing.

Xi's visit to Mao's mausoleum and his speech in front of the statue probably reflects his desire to establish his status as "a people's leader," an honorific bestowed upon Mao.

By praising Mao, Xi is putting pressure on the proteges of Deng Xiaoping who still retain influence.

These disciples include ex-presidents Jiang and Hu as well as former Premier Zhu Rongji. Jiang and Hu stood on the Tiananmen rostrum on Tuesday, flanking Xi, though Zhu could not be seen there during the military parade. Jiang, 93, made the public appearance with the help of aides.

All are participants at the annual summer conclave in the seaside resort of Beidaihe, Hebei Province. For Xi, they are a force he cannot ignore.

To this day, Chinese politics happens behind closed doors. Outsiders have no choice but to ponder the lineup of leaders appearing on the Tiananmen rostrum, their facial complexions, the art they appear in at exhibitions and how these works are displayed. Only in these glimpses are there clues to understanding China, and the global economy it impacts.

 

[Legendver2]

 

[TheGuy]

The last one... gold!

 

[jolldan]

These Hong Kong protests are getting beyond it from both sides now.

Police supposedly shot and killed a protester today and protesters doused a man in petrol and set him on fire for his opposite views.

Whatever the intention was at the start both sides have severely lost their way and this needs to be brought to an end.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Given what videos I have seen I wouldn't be surprised if the man doused and set on fire wasn't done by Pro-China agents.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, I would generally be hesitant about any claims made by authorities. Really, it has always been a countdown to Tiannamen Square.

 

[FVD]

Actors risk a lot when getting involved in politics.

Explains why we never hear from Chow Yun Fat anymore too apparently, which is a shame.

 

[jolldan]

Can't be confirmed either way but I do find it odd that the majority of these horrific actions by protesters are just being chalked up to agent provocateurs. Must have seen a good two dozen videos yesterday of locals being attacked. (And this is no way condoning the actions of the police)

Im happy to say if im proven wrong just seems that a lot of the protesters have lost what they were fighting for and are just letting their anger get the better of them now.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The size and scope of the Chinese internal security forces cannot be underestimated, nor how the government since the handover in 1997, and especially in the last ten years or so the mainland government in Beijing has gone to great lengths to inculcate a blind patriotic loyalty within the majority of the Chinese population, often using them to root out "sedition" or to act as catspaws for the government and security forces.

I would say that healthy skepticism is always a good rule of thumb... At the same time, there's a history of authoritarian regimes outsourcing it's more violent repressive actions against dissidents to more unofficial channels. Events designed to make the the dissidents look bad is like SOP for governments like China.

That's enough reason for me to think twice about condemning the protest movement in Hong Kong in any type of blanket way.

 

[henry_9305]

I am a Hongkonger and from day one I am always curious to know how people from other countries think about this protest.

By the time I am posting here, the police are relentlessly launching assault against an university and all of the students inside, for almost 24 hours. This is insane.

I will talk more if anyone is interested in the situation.

 

[henry_9305]

Some updates of the battle of Chinese University of Hong Kong yesterday.

Police fired thousands shots of tear gas and rubber bullet. The students fought back with Molotov.

And this was just one of the many crashes, there were protests and crashes took place all over HK last night. One of them was quite close to the place I lived.

 

[henry_9305]

Another thing worth noting about the battle of Chinese University of Hong Kong is that the police broke the truce 4 times. I will try my best to translate this timetable.

16:00

• Lavender Cheung, Director of Communications and Public Relations of CUHK, discussed the situation with the police.
  
• The police agreed to pull back their line of defense.
• Police suddenly sent in reinforcement. Protestors set up roadblocks in response. Police fired tear gas and arrested some protestors.

17:40

• Rocky Tuan, the President of CUHK, made another discussion with the police. The police commander agreed the police will not enter the bridge area if the protestors promised stop throwing anything under the bridge.

19:30

• Rocky Tuan and some protestors walked over to the bridge to observe the situation. Police fired tear gas in response.

21:20

• Dennis Ng, Vice President of CUHK, spoke to the police through microphone, that an truce has been made with the commander, asking them to cease fire immediately.
• The riot police continue to fire tear gases. Some of them burst next to Dennis Ng.

21:56

• The Police PR issued an statement on Facebook, saying that they were preparing for retreat. The protestors started to walk over to the bridge.

22:02

• The riot police fired tear gas again and sent in the water cannon vehicles, firing blue pepper based solution at crowd.

22:15

• The Police PR released another statement claiming that the police were under attack while retreating.

 

[TheGuy]

Jesus. What are the sentiments of HKers with regards to Taiwan, in the current political climate?

 

[jolldan]

I am a Hongkonger and from day one I am always curious to know how people from other countries think about this protest.

By the time I am posting here, the police are relentlessly launching assault against an university and all of the students inside, for almost 24 hours. This is insane.

I will talk more if anyone is interested in the situation.

Curious to here from someone who lives local. The police have obviously done some inexcusable things and I feel very sorry for the ongoing issues there.

What is your opinion on the growing number of these videos of protesters assaulting, macing, throwing incendiaries and setting people on fire?

(Im not condemning one side and excusing the other just interested on your opinion as when these protests started the overall support for them seemed to very high now almost every second or third video I am seeing is titled "Hong Kong citizens clash with protesters" it doesn't just seem to be the police they are clashing with heavily now)

 

[Hobgoblin]

This is one of those situations in history where we Americans are supposed to stand up for the little guy. I don’t know if anyone has the desire to do it. Those of us interested in world affairs are probably focused on Trump’s nonsense and the politicians are pretty useless and ineffective. I really have no idea how to fight a massively powerful authoritarian government on the other side of the planet. I can talk about it on Facebook but my political posts are often ignored.

I feel like there is nothing I can do but keep my head down and focus on my own life, and that’s the way people want it to be.

 

[henry_9305]

Jesus. What are the sentiments of HKers with regards to Taiwan, in the current political climate?

It is kind of hopeless actually. We know there is no way we can win this by our own, so all we can do is just stalling and hope the US, UK or other countries will side with us and take some actions.

The protest has been on going for 5 months and it is very likely it will continue for another 5 months or more. Every day we wake up only to be bombarded with news, pictures and videos of the clashes. It is mentally exhausting.

But what really sad is that HKers are still very divided on the protest. The older generation are usually very against it while the younger generation highly support it. Many family were torn apart because the parents and their children have opposite political views. Some even kicked their kids out of their home because they joined the protest.

As for Taiwan, they are in a better situation than us. At least the people over there can still elect their own president every 4 years. But what's happening in HK does make them think twice about having a closer relationship with China.

 

[TheGuy]

It is kind of hopeless actually. We know there is no way we can win this by our own, so all we can do is just stalling and hope the US, UK or other countries will side with us and take some actions.

The protest has been on going for 5 months and it is very likely it will continue for another 5 months or more. Every day we wake up only to be bombarded with news, pictures and videos of the clashes. It is mentally exhausting.

But what really sad is that HKers are still very divided on the protest. The older generation are usually very against it while the younger generation highly support it. Many family were torn apart because the parents and their children have opposite political views. Some even kicked their kids out of their home because they joined the protest.

As for Taiwan, they are in a better situation than us. At least the people over there can still elect their own president every 4 years. But what's happening in HK does make them think twice about having a closer relationship with China.

I'm guessing you must belong to the younger generation, then?

Hong Kong's prosperity has made the older generation forget China's turbulent history pre-Deng Xiaoping, not even including the Tiananmen Massacre which occurred during his leadership. Like any subservient group, they are willing to trade liberty for a false sense of security and few dollars. The situation is extremely saddening because they are allowing the atrocities of the past, which they have experienced, to become a part of real life for the younger generation. The mainland is so corrupt and dictatorial, willing to kill their own citizens to maintain power at absolute cost. It is only right for the protesters to continue because 28 years from now the One Country, Two Systems principle will end and that means the end of any democratic Hong Kong too. Who wants to be ruled by a murderous government (Uighur Muslims) and that steals territories from other countries (South China Sea and debt trap scheme)? I believe the older generation have a fondness for the mainland because of cultural ties. The younger generation isn't beholden to the same concept. I admire the **** out of Hong Kong's youth because they are not blinded by the city's wealth and prestige. More power to them.

Is there also some swell for any Hong Kong-Taiwan unification among the youth? I know that is impossible, but for the sake of discussion I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

 

[jolldan]

It is kind of hopeless actually. We know there is no way we can win this by our own, so all we can do is just stalling and hope the US, UK or other countries will side with us and take some actions.

The protest has been on going for 5 months and it is very likely it will continue for another 5 months or more. Every day we wake up only to be bombarded with news, pictures and videos of the clashes. It is mentally exhausting.

But what really sad is that HKers are still very divided on the protest. The older generation are usually very against it while the younger generation highly support it. Many family were torn apart because the parents and their children have opposite political views. Some even kicked their kids out of their home because they joined the protest.

As for Taiwan, they are in a better situation than us. At least the people over there can still elect their own president every 4 years. But what's happening in HK does make them think twice about having a closer relationship with China.

This is what I worry about. Of course there are going to be plenty of people who are totally opposed to the protester but the worrying ones seem to be the videos I have seen of massive groups of protesters assaulting and maiming individual citizens.

Mainly if people push to far against the civilian population I think they risk becoming the enemy.

I know there is going to be conflict Lenin said it best "You cannot make a revolution in white gloves" but if they lose the civilian support or polarize those maybe as yet undecided in to going against them I worry for how this will end.

 

[henry_9305]

Curious to here from someone who lives local. The police have obviously done some inexcusable things and I feel very sorry for the ongoing issues there.

What is your opinion on the growing number of these videos of protesters assaulting, macing, throwing incendiaries and setting people on fire?

(Im not condemning one side and excusing the other just interested on your opinion as when these protests started the overall support for them seemed to very high now almost every second or third video I am seeing is titled "Hong Kong citizens clash with protesters" it doesn't just seem to be the police they are clashing with heavily now)

I actually think the protestors have gained more support than before because of the way the government and the police handling the situation is getting more and more ridiculous. You will get pepper sprayed and arrested even if you are just questioning the police. In their eyes, you are merely a "cockroach". (This is what they called the protestors, also anyone who is young or not obeying their order.)

There are a few turning point in the protest. The police and triad working together on 21th July, Police indiscriminate attack against HK citizen on 31th August, Police firing live ammunition at people even if it is not necessary on 1st October.

I think the turning point of the protestors getting more violent is on 6th Oct, when a pro-Beijing taxi driver crash his vehicle into the crowd on purpose and hit a girl (She may never walk again). The taxi driver was then dragged out of the vehicle and beaten heavily by the surrounding protestors. The police arrived at the scene and arrested the victim for unlawful assembly instead. A few days later the driver was rewarded with 520 thousand dollars by the pro-Beijing organization. It is this kind of injustice that cause the protestors to react violently when they were provoked.

Not to mentioned all the rumors of sexually abusing, raping, beating and killing done by the police to the arrested protestors. (On this topic I do have a lot more information that can provide. Will share later.)

Unlike the pro-Beijinger, the protestors don't usually go out and looking to beat up people. They have specific targets against
facilities of pro-Beijinger shops or organizations. Even if the shop was broke in and heavily damaged, they do not rob or take anything away from the shop. I am not trying to make the protestors look good but that is exactly what's happened.

You are absolutely right about the protestors reacting more and more violent and I do think setting people on fire definitely cross the line. But to be honest, not even me know if that was done by the protestors or a undercover agent from the police/pro-Beijing camp.

 

[henry_9305]

This is what I worry about. Of course there are going to be plenty of people who are totally opposed to the protester but the worrying ones seem to be the videos I have seen of massive groups of protesters assaulting and maiming individual citizens.

Mainly if people push to far against the civilian population I think they risk becoming the enemy.

I know there is going to be conflict Lenin said it best "You cannot make a revolution in white gloves" but if they lose the civilian support or polarize those maybe as yet undecided in to going against them I worry for how this will end.

Can you show me the link of the video? I probably know which incident is that and can give you more details about them.

Again, not trying to make the protestors look good, but in my opinion some of the reasons provided by those who against the protestors are quite selfish and invalid. They are against the protest because A) It is disturbing their daily life. B) Politics has nothing to do with them. C) It is breaking the law. D) There is no way to win against China, so obeying their order is the better option.

While I can agreed with their reason about breaking the law is wrong, they don't say a damn thing when the government and the police is also breaking the law.

 

[henry_9305]

I'm guessing you must belong to the younger generation, then?

Hong Kong's prosperity has made the older generation forget China's turbulent history pre-Deng Xiaoping, not even including the Tiananmen Massacre which occurred during his leadership. Like any subservient group, they are willing to trade liberty for a false sense of security and few dollars. The situation is extremely saddening because they are allowing the atrocities of the past, which they have experienced, to become a part of real life for the younger generation. The mainland is so corrupt and dictatorial, willing to kill their own citizens to maintain power at absolute cost. It is only right for the protesters to continue because 28 years from now the One Country, Two Systems principle will end and that means the end of any democratic Hong Kong too. Who wants to be ruled by a murderous government (Uighur Muslims) and that steals territories from other countries (South China Sea and debt trap scheme)? I believe the older generation have a fondness for the mainland because of cultural ties. The younger generation isn't beholden to the same concept. I admire the **** out of Hong Kong's youth because they are not blinded by the city's wealth and prestige. More power to them.

Is there also some swell for any Hong Kong-Taiwan unification among the youth? I know that is impossible, but for the sake of discussion I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

Yes, I am 26 years old.

Regarding to the reason behind most of the older generation being pro-Beijinger, you absolutely nailed it. They pretty much value money over freedom or anything else. Nothing is more important than making a living and they justify this mindset by claiming that they are providing a better living standard to their next generation. However when the youth do have a chance to receive better education and have values different than their parents, the parents will blame the education for that. In fact, many pro-Beijingers are already blaming the education for one of the main causes of the protest. (My kids are being brainwashed by studying Liberal Studies in the school!)

As for Hong Kong-Taiwan unification, I have heard a few people talked about it and that's it. Maybe we all know this is not going to happen so we just focus on how to survive first.

 

[jolldan]

I actually think the protestors have gained more support than before because of the way the government and the police handling the situation is getting more and more ridiculous. You will get pepper sprayed and arrested even if you are just questioning the police. In their eyes, you are merely a "cockroach". (This is what they called the protestors, also anyone who is young or not obeying their order.)

There are a few turning point in the protest. The police and triad working together on 21th July, Police indiscriminate attack against HK citizen on 31th August, Police firing live ammunition at people even if it is not necessary on 1st October.

I think the turning point of the protestors getting more violent is on 6th Oct, when a pro-Beijing taxi driver crash his vehicle into the crowd on purpose and hit a girl (She may never walk again). The taxi driver was then dragged out of the vehicle and beaten heavily by the surrounding protestors. The police arrived at the scene and arrested the victim for unlawful assembly instead. A few days later the driver was rewarded with 520 thousand dollars by the pro-Beijing organization. It is this kind of injustice that cause the protestors to react violently when they were provoked.

Not to mentioned all the rumors of sexually abusing, raping, beating and killing done by the police to the arrested protestors. (On this topic I do have a lot more information that can provide. Will share later.)

Unlike the pro-Beijinger, the protestors don't usually go out and looking to beat up people. They have specific targets against
facilities of pro-Beijinger shops or organizations. Even if the shop was broke in and heavily damaged, they do not rob or take anything away from the shop. I am not trying to make the protestors look good but that is exactly what's happened.

You are absolutely right about the protestors reacting more and more violent and I do think setting people on fire definitely cross the line. But to be honest, not even me know if that was done by the protestors or a undercover agent from the police/pro-Beijing camp.

That is horrible to hear, hopefully she does recover.

Hadn't even heard any of those that's horrific if the people charged with protecting citizens are doing that.

Seen quite a few of those the only real worry I have is a quite a few buildings appear to have been set on fire by protesters, that's a worry as a lot of these places look to only be shops on the ground floor. Yeah I think this is hard thing to convey purely in text without it sounding like you have a bias one way or the other, anyone reading my comments would likely think im either against the protesters or at least more on the pro-Beijing side but not the case.

Like you said it could turn out to be the case that's what the majority of these are, I just find it questionable that we tend to make excuses or caveats for these sections of the protesters. As there isn't any for the police (nor should there be). Hard to word this correctly just concerned that people will start to doubt or question information from the protesters side if we have a case of when the police do something awful it was definitely them where as if the protesters do something awful it could have been x or y. If that makes sense.