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Discussion in 'Avengers: Infinity War' started by Thread Manager, May 1, 2018.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]541551[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]541201[/split]
Totally agree. Folks just can't enjoy nice things.
Scarlet Witch is a MAJOR character in the movie. She is also one of the most powerful individuals on-screen. She has a CLEAR motivational arc and isn't "fridged" or overlooked.
Gamora is a MAJOR character in the movie. She isn't fridged because she, knowing she could die at the drop of a hat, takes on Thanos and attempts to murder him. Her motivations are clear and, even if you ignore the 2 movies worth of backstory regarding her and Thanos, there is enough to go on to create an emotional investment within her movie. Even after her death, her presence is literally felt all the way to the last frame (even ignoring that there's a good chance she'll be reborn anyway).
Black Widow might not have had a "meaty" part, but she's also involved in some of the best "cheer worthy" parts of the movie (saving SW, taking on Proxima Midnight w/Okoyo). Her and Cap are clearly NOT the focus because they'll be the focus NEXT movie.
We all agree that Okoyo, even with limited scenes, was amazing.
The women were front and center. No one was "fridged". Stop it ya'll.
In response to someone in previous thread, no, Pepper and Tony aren't married yet. Tony invites Wong to the wedding.
Let's also not forget that Captain Marvel, Widow and Nebula look to have big roles in A4 next year.
Ah yes youre correct.
I guess Strange meant, congratulations on being Engaged.
Or I misheard.
Is Tony going to get his wedding to Pepper or will it be a funeral instead that everyone is attending?
In any event, there's likely to be some kind of funeral at the end of A4.
I don't see Tony having Vision (who was JARVIS before) with him at his wedding. He was with Tony since 2008.
He said Congrats on the Wedding, but I take it to me as in congrats you're getting married (aka the coming wedding)
I can. I enjoyed the movie, and will be going back soon. If you are bothered by some critiques or non-enthusiastic opinions, then perhaps you shouldn't read the thread?
Your points regarding Gamora are unconvincing, imho. Or perhaps I should say: UNCONVINCING in caps
She does some other stuff, but basically she ends up being sacrificed to further Thanos' journey. That is the core scene of the movie. If it didn't have emotional weight, that would mean that it was poorly executed, which it's not. Or at least I don't think so.
But the execution being good doesn't alter the substance of her role.
Wanda probably has the best role, in the sense that her scenes have emotional weight, without reducing her to a victim, she has an arc, and she gets to showcase her powers in impressive ways.
It's true that the next movie could change the overall picture a lot, as acknowledged already several times, but it's still valid to look at this movie individually.
With all due respect, EVERYONE was sacrificed to further Thanos' journey, not just Gamora.
My opinion on how it'll play out:
Tony and Steve reconcile. Tony tells Steve he's getting married. After a battle that not only almost kills them, but brings them closer, Tony offers Steve the role of Best Man. Fast forward to the 3rd Act, Steve sacrifices himself to save Tony and many others, but before he does, tells Tony he won't be able to fulfill his duties as Best Man. Steve dies. The movie ends with a memorial for Steve, and a big beautiful wedding for Tony and Pepper, with a pic of Cap and his shield standing where the Best Man wouldve stood.
I'm already crying lol
I'll take that scenario
this would be nice.
Fridging doesn't require a female character's only role being dying to motivate a male hero's anger and desire for revenge. If that's what the character is used for at some point in the story, even if she has other uses within the story, then it fits the definition of the phrase.
On Gamora being "fridged:"
When my female characters die, I totally prefer for absolutely no other characters to care or to be significantly affected. Or else it's sexist.
Seriously, folks. Some people can never be happy. Vision was essentially a damsel in distress in this movie. And Spider-Man was killed off as a means to further Tony Stark's character arc. It's Storytelling 101, yo.
I respectfully disagree.
"Yeah, she's a well-rounded character and had stuff to do ... But when she died, other characters were upset about it, so it's sexist."
How dare Gamora have well-established relationships with other characters, and then when you-know-what hits the fan, those characters are deeply affected by it ... :|
That's not true in the slightest. For a character to be fridged their only role in the story is to be attacked an/or die for the sole reason to motivate a character. If that was the case then almost every character in this movie was fridged.
I didnt say he briefly looked sad once.
Being told Hes really sad...I'm sorry, I dont consider that effective portrayal of the issue.
and dont movies have to work on their own?
The character who I didnt feel is developed welle nough is dead now. If they go into Avengers 4 and somehow Thanos and Gamora have a nice father weird little soul daughter chat in that weird pastel temple dimension and resolve some things, maybe Ill change my tune. But until then, this what I have to go on.
I dont remember him openly sobbing. I remember his emotions being fairly subtle in that sequence.
I'm not sure when this somehow became about me not believing Thanos is sad...that was never the issue I had.
And again, as Ive told you already, the moment/s in the film were not satisfying enough for me. If it was enough for you, great.
The movie has a ton of little character moments sprinkled throughout. Its not that they dont work at all
its just not enough for me.
But from an execution standpoint thats just her saying hes sad. It's also somewhat redundant, because we already know he was sad about it. Im aware that he was sad, and that the movie said he was sad and that a character says he is sad, and that he has a weird vision of little Gamora that indicates that he is sad.
I didn't consider that an effective portrayal of the issues at hand that were introduced, or a satisfying resolution. Dont know what to tell you.
What youre doing here is a logical fallacy.
Since you didnt bother to make a point beyond tossing a logical fallacy out there, I dont have much to respond to.
Except that I think its beyond said that you even know where to go to find said quote. Thats a level of obsession with my posting history that I dont know that Im comfortable with. This isnt the first time youve displayed that sort of stalkerish behavior.
Serious question, can you not defend a film on its own merits? Or are you just about personal attacks these days? Because if all you're doing is making personal attacks, then you're basically just trolling.
It may shock you, but people have different feelings about different things based on different contexts.
If anyone in IW got "fridged," it's the Vision. His agency was removed from the very start of the film, he was deliberately weakened (nerfed) so that he could not effectively defend himself and had to rely on his partner and others, and at the very end he was killed (twice!) in order to advance the goals of both the heroes and the villain. The Vision was a damsel and a sacrifice offered up to the greater good, or evil, against what he would have preferred, i.e., living peacefully with Wanda. He got stuffed in a mini-fridge, which then got nuked.
The major theme of Infinity War was people being forced to sacrifice or lose their loves. Wanda was forced to sacrifice the Vision. Loki was confronted with the choice of sacrificing Thor to retain the Time Stone, but he chose not to. Gamora asked Peter Quill to kill her to stop Thanos, which he ultimately tried to do but failed. Doctor Strange vowed to sacrifice Stark and Peter Parker to protect the Time Stone but realized he needed to save Stark. You could even say that T'Challa willingly sacrificed Wakanda to save the entire universe. And, of course, Thanos sacrificed Gamora out of twisted ambition and a sick, delusional love.
At the very end of the film, when Thanos snapped his fingers, the characters we saw die were all loved by someone left behind. They were halves of pairs, for the most part. The first was Bucky, whose death left Steve bereft and lost. Wanda followed the Vision into death. Rocket was left to mourn Groot, again. Tony had to hold Peter in his arms as he turned to ash. Surely the themes of loss and sacrifice were woven through IW for a reason and will carry over into Avengers 4.
Fairly certain the term refers to an instance where a female character is killed or otherwise suffers to motivate a male character.
I don't think that being their sole purpose in the plot enters into it.
Fridging refers specifically to a female character who is used this way.
My response to Spider-Fan to whether IW is an Avengers film or not.
I think it is, because even if the team is broken, they are still heroic and fight in teams against Thanos - 1 team on Titan, another team in Wakanda.
And by the end of the film, most of the heroes meet in Wakanda in 1 way or another (with the exception of the team that's stranded on Titan).
Otherwise, why would be the film called Avengers: Infinity War? Sure, they don't re-assemble, but that doesn't mean they don't still do their stuff.
ah damn, i had not really noticed that until now.
the iron-man and spider-man one was the toughest one to watch. they're basically father and son.
their whole dynamic in IW made them almost like the batman and robin of the mcu.
i think dr. strange even makes an indirect reference to that by asking if peter is tony's "ward." lol
You're, of course, entitled to feeling that the execution wasn't enough, was subpar. I was addressing what you said, "I don't feel that briefly looking sad is an appropriate portrayal of genuinely mourning someone that you really didn't want to lose". When the movie provided more than 'briefly looking sad' with three different instances of his grief manifesting -- his own when he tosses Gamora to her demise, an empath reading of it, the soul gem asking of the toll enacted on him.
If you are dissatisfied with how things panned out in the movie, that's fine, but you painted an incorrect situation in the movie here.