Batman as a Vehicle for the Surveillance State

Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by thorstone, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. thorstone

    thorstone Well-Known Member

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    Nolan touched on this darker authoritarian side of Batman in The Dark Knight-- what do you think of Batman as a vehicle for the modern surveillance state?

    Will we see bat-drones flying around Gotham? Will Batman have a surveillance satellite? Will this be the crux of the conflict between Batman and Superman?

    At the end of Man of Steel, Superman destroys a surveillance drone, so we know that this Superman stands against such technologies.
     
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  2. roach

    roach I am the night

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    Nolan's Batman represented how the world see's America.
     
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  3. KRYPTON INC.

    KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    That's right. People think America quits when it's girlfriend dies. :oldrazz:

    (Joke, people, a joke.)
     
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  4. DarthVapor

    DarthVapor Member

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    Well Joke or no Joke... He did quit when his girlfriend died. So its not even that funny. He was a quitter....
     
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  5. TheFlamingCoco

    TheFlamingCoco Well-Known Member

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    What was that satellite for. Good tv reception? :p

    I don't like the idea of Batman using drones. I think his ego stands in the way. Also, he'd probably be paranoid of being hacked.
     
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  6. Goshdarn Batman

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    Batman: "People must never find out my dirty secret... That Wertham was right all along (deletes pictures of bare chested men)"
     
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  7. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    I don't like Batman symbolizing the surveillance (police?) state just yet.

    Maybe in a Kingdom Come movie where all the characters are extreme/fully-realized versions of themselves but not in Batman/Superman or a World's Finest movie.

    Before Batman is driven to extremes to lock down Gotham completely he's just a lone renegade crusading for justice in a corrupt wasteland.

    He's the idealistic rebel who later becomes a hardened dictator. People need to see the full evolution from the beginning, which means hints of draconian/Orwellian beliefs rather than a full display of them.
     
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  8. thorstone

    thorstone Well-Known Member

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    Batman could have bat themed ornithopter drones or fixed wing drones (or both).

    [YT]Er8Uy38G7A4[/YT]

    [YT]Gx-fm7g5Lt4[/YT]

    Only 1% of America is in the 1%...

    This Batman has been confirmed to be middle aged and well into his career under the mask.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  9. Eddie Dean

    Eddie Dean Mr. Jackpots

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    I much prefer Frank Miller's anti-authority rebel Batman to Nolan's Right Wing Batman.
     
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  10. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    Batman looks like a libertarian and Superman looks like a republican that's my thoughts on this.
     
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  11. CharlieS

    CharlieS Well-Known Member

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    #11
  12. gdw

    gdw Well-Known Member

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    Um, Miller is considered a right wing nut (Randian actually, as I understand it,) and his Batman in TDKR is viewed as the embodiment of his views.

    This is one thing I never fully got, regarding this "interpretations" of Nolan's Batman; He's not at all "right wing." He is the clear contrast to the rest of the "1%" in Rises. Not that being considered in the "1%" makes one "right wing."

    The "extraordinary rendition" parallel in TDK is certainly relevant to the comparisons with the Nolan/Bale Bat, but this also brings up the HUGE difference between PRIVATE actions, and STATE actions.

    Not that an action suddenly becomes moral, or immoral, solely based around whether it is the government committing it, or a private individual.
    Kidnapping is still kidnapping, theft is still theft.

    The BIGGEST difference between Batman and ANY government wing/party/action is principle. Batman acts on principle, doing his best to never betray what he is fighting for. Batman fights on principle, for justice.
    The state is EXACTLY the opposite.

    As the Joker says, he truly is incorruptible.
     
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  13. gdw

    gdw Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we "know" that at all. The only thing we can know for certain is that he is against such being used against HIMSELF.

    We MIGHT be able to ASSUME that he is similarly against such being used against the populace in general.
     
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  14. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    I feel like we've been down this road before...

    [​IMG]

    Oh, poor Lucius Fox. Only a few years away from finding out that Batman was just the beginning... :oldrazz:

    I actually love parallels and rich subtext in art. And I think Nolan proved many snobs wrong when The Dark Knight proved to be one the most interesting post-9/11 films ever made. However, after watching how clumsily--to the point of being nearly insulting--Goyer and Snyder handled such themes themselves in Man of Steel, complete with Superman shrugging as skyscrapers collapsed and Zod's machine causing planes to crash into buildings...

    Yeah, let's not go down there. I'm all for making Batman's methods murky or morally ambiguous. Nolan toyed with it. Frank Miller and Alan Moore fully embraced it (though for different means). Snyder is too tone deaf to pull that off with finesse.
     
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  15. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    The world sees America as the hero it deserves, but not the one it needs? Or is it the other way around? Honestly, as that movie came out during the Bush years, either way it would be more flattering than the real international image we were then maintaining.
     
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  16. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    Miller didn't see Batman as anti-authority. He sees Batman as the ULTIMATE authority. Batman essentially becomes Gotham's dictator at the end of the series until Superman "takes him out." And even then, he goes underground to build up a whole army, waiting until the time is right to take control. In many ways, his Batman is closer to Nolan's Bane than Nolan's Batman. Scary, but true.
     
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  17. Eddie Dean

    Eddie Dean Mr. Jackpots

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    Miller took a heavy conservative stance post 9/11, I still think his Batman works as an anti-authority figure. There's a heavy revolutionary theme in all his works, in DKSA Batman is in full on terrorist mode. Miller uses Batman as a way to shake up the established order, whether it be a crime riddled Gotham or a future dystopia. I guess I see Miller's Batman as a symbol of change, while his Superman is the ultimate protector of the status quo.
     
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  18. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    The left wing Batman, imo, is a very dangerous character.

    Miller had him become the law, his law. If he continued down that path, he would've become like the Punisher.

    That's not Batman to me. It's like a corrupt Judge Dredd or something!

    He's supposed to abide by the law to keep himself from becoming something like that.
    Of course he bends the law, but he doesn't proclaim himself above and beyond it.
     
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  19. smallville fan

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    I think you should wait for the sequel before you reserve judgement for how Snyder and Co. handle those sorts of themes.
     
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  20. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

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    Not really. This is not television. They spent several years creating Man of Steel. I should not have to wait for a sequel to judge how they handled the character or any subtext therein. And when it came to creating parallels to our world or "grounding" it, their results were messy, lazy and ugly. More a reach toward something "cool" than intellectually interesting.

    And I actually liked that Superman movie! Just judging this part of it fairly.
     
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  21. smallville fan

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    They also spent more years putting together Superman/Batman.
     
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  22. MessiahDecoy123

    MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    Batman is anti-criminal.

    If you're corrupt, Batman will oppose you. Whether your a local, state-wide, national, or global authority, it doesn't matter.

    Batman isn't anti-government because he doesn't like the IRS, he's only anti-government because of the corruption involved.
     
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  23. Rodrigo90

    Rodrigo90 Wink wink ;)

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    In Miller's take, he goes above and beyond his role as Gotham's protector.

    That to me, is the first time Batman has gone mad with power.

    But....is it justifiable and right of him to do that?
     
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  24. thorstone

    thorstone Well-Known Member

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    What did you expect him to do-- use his magic rebuild-the-wall-of-China powers to stop the buildings from falling?

    That would make him a hypocrite. "Freedom is good enough for me but not the slaves."
     
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  25. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member

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    Actually, yes.
     
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