Discussion in 'Batman Begins' started by Micromind, Nov 24, 2011.
1. Batman Begins
2. Superman: The Movie
3. Captain America
5. Iron Man
Wouldn't First Class be considered an origin movie?
I vote for Iron Man. It would have gone to Superman but it loses points for that incredibly sappy "Can you read my mind" scene.
Yes, or at least I would say that's as close to an X-Men origin movie that we'll get unless there is a reboot in the future.
I think it's Batman Begins, followed closely by Iron Man. That being said, I really like Magneto's origin telling in X-Men First Class. The overall movie wasn't on the same level as BB or IM, but it was still very good and mostly because of Magneto's arc.
I don't know. Superman and Rocketeer were very good too
Well yea, the actual real time plotline is directly linked to it. I wouldn't say it's seperate at all. Bruce Wayne specifically becomes batman due to the result of Andrea leaving (going into hiding) never able to have his one chance of a normal life. Andrea becomes a present time anti-Batman due to her parent being killed from going into hiding. The main mystery being, that we didn't know if her father was really dead. They both follow a similar motivated path both in the past and in the present due to that trigger point in the past. The diffrence being, Bruces fleshed out, and hers is more of a reveal. His cause in the past seems to have developed into something pure and just (batman doesn't kill) and hers, without to much being explained, more self-serving and deadly.
I think it's actually kind of two origin stories told at two seperate time points. I love the fantastic ending of her proclaiming she is alone and the final shot of Batman standing solemnly high above Gotham. She basically has now became what Bruce Wayne has been for while and is synonymous with. The interesting (and awsome) thing about that final scene I never really picked up on is that they are looking out in the distance facing each other from left to right. Then the bat-signal takes his attention back to Gotham. Really just wonderful how much thought soul they put into it.
To me, animated or not, that totally the best origin movie. Nolans movies seem very cold and distant in comparison. Some of the scenes comes across as abit hammy acting wise. Burton didn't even bother other than giving Batman a reason to hate the joker.
Yes, I've seen the film.
You're still wrong.
Which destroyed the whole premise for me. Batman's motivations are about justice/revenge but not having a failed romance. MOTP tried to force a new motivation into Bruce's life that wasn't very interesting, original nor apt.
I liked parts of it, but the animation was merely on par with the regular TV animated series. And I was never keen on the overall design of it all.
I think that is still his motivation, sacrificing his normal life is a byproduct which he is struggling with before she actually goes into hiding Like the scene when he's frustrated, drawing the suit throwing it in the fire or when he's at his parents grave attempting to plead with them. He can either move on or continue to live in the past giving up his normal life. In the end they both go down that path both ending up as solitary figures. Sure, it's because of a failed relationship. But thats more a final trigger for a motivation that already existed (for Bruce).
Well, Bruce's impossibility to have a normal life is that he's convinced Batman is necessary. But being about to quit before even starting his Batman mission... no thanks. I mean, that's a completely unnecessary new element that redefines the character. Bruce's parents being killed is not enough. I think Bruce has always been over women. A girl cannot be reason enough to prevent him from being Batman.
At least in TDK he had found a better man in Harvey Dent. And in BR Bruce was a soplitary and Catwoman was already what he was. I mean, in those movies, Bruce was Batman already so he knew what was he saying no to when he thought of quitting.
I can see what you are saying but I didn't have a problem with it at all. In the context of that specific plotline and it's themes, it's totally necessary for it to work properly. It creates empathy (again my personal preference) that the other movies fail at conveying. Batmans gets re-defined all the time As you probably know, in the original comic he was a murderer like phantasm, he also carried a gun. That got changed accordingly. Freeze and Harley Quinn's character change and introduction were a direct result of TAS.
Batman Begins was really good, but I got to go with Superman on the DC side. It took like an hour for him to become Superman and they were still able to keep it interesting until he put on the costume.
For Marvel, Captain America easily trumps Iron Man.
Yes, but both of those were good changes.
The change in MOTP wouldn't be.
It all is, but at the very least Batman's vision on guns and killing is relevant to the character, as he was born out of witnessing his parents' killing.
But a broken heart as the reason to become Batman...?
Exactly. It's subjective, but there's a damn good rationale that goes along with that change. A rational that acknowledges and compliments key aspects of the character's core.
That's not the case with the changes in MOTP.
I have Batman Begins just a little better than Captin America.
Batman Begins was the movie tha made me love Batman, now some years after watching it and also reading Year One i think it could have been better and maybe there can be done an even better Batman movie some day.
Captain America's first half had the potencial to make the movie maybe as goos as The Dark Knight, however, the rush to make him fight the war and to get frozen made the 2nd half not as good, if they could have spent maybe 1 or 2 more movies in WWII then Captain America would have been the best superhero origin movie.
X-Men: First Class may get the prize for best superhero origin, it was a great introduction, the story flowed naturally, and the 3rd act didn't seem rushed as the entire movie led to that. Still i have both movies tied.
Superman and Batman Begins.
Showing a flashback to Bruce's parents being killed doesn't make an origin movie. The comics show the flashback to his parents all the time. That doesn't make those stories origin stories.
Yeah, showing Batman first and revealing his origin later, that's how the comics did.
Not to mention Nolan himself said in 2009 that he took the idea of presenting origins as flashbacks instead of in chronological order from 89 Batman. But I personally wouldnt call the 89 movie an origin movie
Anyway, is Batman Begins for me personally is definitely the best origin movie. I can personally connect with the character(s) and I always like the stories of underdogs getting hell and then getting back years later to kick some ass. Thats why I also enjoyed 2004's Punisher a lot, same with Hard To Kill and The Crow. Then theres a great soundtrack and my favorite comic book character
In many posts you have declared yourself horrified at the fact that Batman movies haven't followed the comics, so I, under the assumption you don't have a double standard, took the freedom of reminding you that in this case, B89 did follow the comics.
No I haven't. I love Nolan's movies and they made changes. I just hate the changes some of the others made. Don't put words in my mouth.
That's why you shouldn't make assumptions about other people's opinions. I wasn't talking about following the comic books. I was talking about how showing Batman's parents getting killed in a flashback doesn't make the story an origin story.