Batman Begins vs Black Panther

[LvtLeeTDK]

Begins is often considered the best origin CBM. Black Panther is a perfect introduction of Black Panther to the audiences, although it's not really an origin movie.

Which one do you prefer ? This one will probably be much tighter than TDK vs Black Panther debate, which you obviously know the answer.

 

[Drizzle]

They're both pretty great and nearly evenly matched, but I'd have to give it to Black Panther because Killmonger is a better villain than Ra's Al Ghul and Katie Holmes has got nothing on Lupita Nyong'o.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

They're both pretty great and nearly evenly matched, but I'd have to give it to Black Panther because Killmonger is a better villain than Ra's Al Ghul and Katie Holmes has got nothing on Lupita Nyong'o.

Really ? I always thought Ra's was criminally underrated. Liam Neeson was so amazing IMO. I wasn't impressed by Killmonger that much.

 

[Infinity9999x]

As much of a Batman fanboy as I am, I think I give it to BP too.

Begins I think will continue to age better due to the lack of noticeable CGI, but really the CGI and some small story complaints are all I can levy against BP. Outside that, I think it had a more memorable villain, a more balanced supporting cast, and more heart.

BB is still one of my favorite superhero flicks and one of the best origins out there, but BP was just a bit better imo.

 

[FunkMiller]

Black Panther is the more culturally important and impactful movie... but Begins is better written, better acted, better directed.

 

[Elayis]

Black Panther is the more culturally important and impactful movie... but Begins is better written, better acted, better directed.

Yeah, pretty much. And even though it's 13 years old now (wow, that'd weird to think about), I think the VFX are at least on par with or better than BP's.

Ludwig Goransson's score is fantastic and one of the best recent CBM soundtracks, Zimmer & Howard's is one of the best ever of the genre, and will always hold a special place in my heart.

 

[Drizzle]

Really ? I always thought Ra's was criminally underrated. Liam Neeson was so amazing IMO. I wasn't impressed by Killmonger that much.

I don't think Ra's is a bad villain, I just think Killmonger is a much more compelling one.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Black Panther is the more culturally important and impactful movie... but Begins is better written, better acted, better directed.

Written is debatable. This is coming from someone who is a massive Nolan fan, I saw TDK 6 times in theatres, and my Avy is scratchboard art I created in the months leading up to TDK releasing.

But as time has gone on Nolan's lack of capturing....human emotion for lack of a better term has become more apparent. His films deal with grand themes and ideas...but his characters often struggle in expressing the more human element. They tend to come off somewhat cold. Begins actually is one of his better attempts, especially the moments between Bruce and Alfred...but you also get lots of characters espousing themes as opposed to feeling like real people.

BP captures the human element in a much stronger way. Especially with Killmonger. Better acted is a big debate too...Holmes is weak in BB (though not as bad as some make her out to be, honestly, her character is just written poorly), and while I would say everyone else does a fine job, few of the characters outside Bruce, Alfred, and Gordon are as dynamic as many of the characters in BP were. Ra's was a solid villain, and even though he too had tragic motivations, he was emotionally cold, wheras Killmonger rivalved Magneto in terms of the raw emotion you felt from that character.

Visuals...I would bet that BB is going to age better, simply because it has such limited CGI, and the biggest critique of BP (rightfully so) is it's overly noticeable CGI character models. Though BB's action sequences have NOT aged well. They were barely passable at the time when Bourne-style action sequences were all the rage. Nolan never did get the hang of a great hand to hand action sequence.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

Maybe it just me but I dare to put Ra's on the same tier of Thanos, Joker,...

He's so well written. The dialogue is just perfect (on par with Joker's dialogue in TDK I'd say) but Liam Neeson's delivery is also amazing.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Maybe it just me but I dare to put Ra's on the same tier of Thanos, Joker,...

He's so well written. The dialogue is just perfect (on par with Joker's dialogue in TDK I'd say) but Liam Neeson's delivery is also amazing.

I won't fault anyone who enjoys him that much. You can't go wrong with Liam Neeson. But he didn't strike the kind of emotional level I needed for him to be one of my top tier villains for me. He's up there, but Killmonger and Magneto, and now Thanos, and three villains who have understandable motivation who also captured the emotion of their struggle in a much stronger way than I felt Ra's did.

Joker goes in that category of "elemental" villain. Someone who personifies a theme of humanity in such a way that he seems more like a force of nature than a human. He's still my top.

 

[Elayis]

To me not enough of BP's characters are fleshed out; only T'Challa & Killmonger get any meaningful development, while Shuri, Okoye, Klaue, T'Chaka & M'Baku get some decent screen time but are clearly secondary characters. Unfortunately the rest of the cast is not so lucky; great actors like Angela Bassett, Forest Whittaker, Lupita Nyong'o, Daniel Kaluuya and Sterling K. Brown are basically wasted, and Martin Freeman once again doesn't really do much of note (though at least his role is larger than in CW).

With BB, you get real arcs for Bruce & Ra's, and Alfred, Gordon, Fox, Rachel, Scarecrow & Falcone all have important roles. Even tertiary characters like Flass & Earle shine in their brief appearances.

I'd also say BB's third act is superior (especially the final fight), and does a lot more with giving each cast member involved a chance to shine. And personally, I prefer the final interaction of Bats and Gordon to either of BP's last scenes (I count the mid-credits as an ending, given that it's still part of the film's themes and was scripted to be the true ending).

 

[The Joker]

Both superb, but BB wins it for me.

 

[Travesty]

I don't even have to think twice about this: Begins.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'll have to watch Black Panther again to determine for sure which of the two is really the better one. Batman Begins looks better cause it doesn't rely on CGI as much.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I don't even have to think twice about this: Begins.

Same here. Batman Begins.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

fecking hell are you serious ? Black Panther was supposed to be the movie that break TDK domination. It has already lost the poll against TDK and now even Begins can beat the **** out of it ?

 

[Elayis]

To me BB is the best superhero origin film ever. It will be very hard to top it.

 

[Hammer!]

Close but Batman Begins. Dark Knight is still the best CBM ever even with a poor Two Face. BP mops the floor with Rises, as do many CBMs made since 2012.

 

[Levathian]

I haven't yet watched BP but i reckon it would be extremely difficult to dethrone BB.

 

[Mjölnir]

fecking hell are you serious ? Black Panther was supposed to be the movie that break TDK domination. It has already lost the poll against TDK and now even Begins can beat the **** out of it ?

Begins is better than TDK so it makes sense. t:

(I haven't voted since I've only seen BP once, which does not make for a fair comparison)

 

[The Batman]

Black Panther was supposed to be the movie that break TDK domination.

.....Since when?

 

[The Endless]

In a way Begins is the best Nolan movie. For me anyway. Obviously TDK has Joker, but I just prefer Begins as a Batman movie. Not only is it the first real Batman origin movie, it pioneered a whole new format. It was pretty inspirational.

But Black Panther more than holds its own. I love how it ISN'T an origin story. We've already met T'Challa. This film is more like... an introduction to a whole culture. The story is interesting in plot and thematically. So imaginative and full of detail. I think Boseman and MBJ own their characters, plus the supporting cast matches or exceeds any cbm... ever.

I really can't choose between the two. Well I could, but tomorrow maybe different! Today I choose Black Panther!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

.....Since when?

Since everyone had high hopes for it? Since it garnered 97% aggregate critics approval?
I guess it has to be one of these points when people raised their expectations.

 

[The Endless]

I think BP is better than TDK. Whenever I watch it now I end up skipping to the parts with Joker. Batman just isn't magnetic in that film for me. He's kinda lame really. Not Bale's fault though.

 

[Elayis]

I think BP is better than TDK. Whenever I watch it now I end up skipping to the parts with Joker. Batman just isn't magnetic in that film for me. He's kinda lame really. Not Bale's fault though.

How much of that is due to familiarity/fatigue, though? TDK has been out nearly 10 years, BP isn't even 3 months old yet.