Batman drops Napier explanation - by video!!!

[Kevin Roegele]

[YT]ZKFI63MtWbc[/YT]

I'm so obsessed with this I made a short video to explain what's happening.

 

[CConn]

Also notice, Batman only drops Napier after Napier lets go of that pipe. Obviously, the additional weight was too much for Batman to hold onto.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Also notice, Batman only drops Napier after Napier lets go of that pipe. Obviously, the additional weight was too much for Batman to hold onto.

But in the shot where Batman lets go, Napier's hand is back above the pipe. I think it's a continuity era more than anything.

 

[ShaneHelms]

Also notice, Batman only drops Napier after Napier lets go of that pipe. Obviously, the additional weight was too much for Batman to hold onto.

I've always thought the same thing.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

You have to love people reading too much into things.

See the "Today in 1989" thread. I've put this theory to rest.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

You have to love people reading too much into things.

See the "Today in 1989" thread. I've put this theory to rest.

LOL, no you haven't.

It's not 'reading into things'. You have a close up of Batman's face. You have a Batman POV shot. You have Batman changing expression. Why is there even a scene of Batman catching Napier if there is no purpose to it, as you say?

 

[DocLathropBrown]

LOL, no you haven't.

Sure, even though the script, the comic book adaptation, the novelization and film logic proves you wrong.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Sure, even though the script, the comic book adaptation, the novelization and film logic proves you wrong.

Do you not understand that a script is a blueprint for a film, not an actual film, and that the novelisation and comicbook are not the film either?

Look at the actual film, the actual frames, what actually happens.

 

[Catman]

I love Keaton's eyes! t:

 

[The Joker]

Batman's change of expression is clearly due to the fact that Napier's hand is slipping from his grasp. Hence why his eyes widen.

My god!! Fanboys scare me sometimes

 

[The Joker]

LOL, no you haven't.

Yes, he has. This is just nonsense. Batman accidently let Napier fall. It's as simple as that. He slipped from his grasp.

 

[raleagh]

it is perhaps not a good edit.

to me his expression is "jack, why are you letting go of the pipe with your other, you're slipping!?!"

by jack removing his other hand, he is not wanting to be pulled up and arrested. i think a small clip of his hand slipping out of batman's and then batman's expression change might have helped the scene.

ps. how do i add an avatar?

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Do you not understand that a script is a blueprint for a film, not an actual film, and that the novelisation and comicbook are not the film either?

Look at the actual film, the actual frames, what actually happens.

Just think about it, Kev, buddy. You know I like you, man. But this is just nonsense. If he already knows, then why is he surprised when the Joker recites the poem later on in the film? Why does that scene exist if he already knows?

Film logic, man. If he already knew, he wouldn't be surprised and have a flashback so late in the film. He would have asked for the file on his parents immediately after Axis Chemicals, not until he hears a quote. The quote is the clincher. You know Tim Burton's not dumb enough to assemble the scenes in a way that would suggest the quote is what does it if it was meant to be earlier.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Film logic, man. If he already knew, he wouldn't be surprised and have a flashback so late in the film. He would have asked for the file on his parents immediately after Axis Chemicals, not until he hears a quote. The quote is the clincher. You know Tim Burton's not dumb enough to assemble the scenes in a way that would suggest the quote is what does it if it was meant to be earlier.

Wait - I'm not saying Batman already knew who Napier was. Back in the '1989' thread I've stated that it's pretty obvious Bruce realises who he is during the Childhood Remembered scene.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Wait - I'm not saying Batman already knew who Napier was. Back in the '1989' thread I've stated that it's pretty obvious Bruce realises who he is during the Childhood Remembered scene.

But the argument that he drops him is only because he recognizes him as the killer. Unless yours is different....

but still, why would he drop him? Batman showed up to help apprehend Naiper so that he can testify against Grissom, he has no reason to kill him.

 

[mystory64]

Bruce realized who killed his parents when Joker dropped the "Dance with the devil line" thats it, really, you're looking way to into things.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

But the argument that he drops him is only because he recognizes him as the killer. Unless yours is different....

There is recognition in his eyes. He doesn't make the connection, but he recognises Napier from somewhere and knows he wants to hurt this guy. That's why there is a close up of Batman. If it was just Batman losing his grip, it would be a two-shot of Batman and Napier to make it clearer. No, it's a Batman POV shot, then a close up of Batman's expression (which is absolutely not a 'I'm trying really hard to hold on' expression). Look at Keaton's movements - he is pulling Napier up, then he stops and there is the look.

but still, why would he drop him? Batman showed up to help apprehend Naiper so that he can testify against Grissom, he has no reason to kill him.

Batman doesn't drop him by accident, or on purpose. The scene is deliberately ambiguous. We are having this argument because it's not clear exactly what happens, and that's deliberate. Burton wants you to question what happens in the scene. Burton does not condone Batman like Nolan does, Burton says, "Look at this guy, he's clearly unstable and his actions are highly debatable."

 

[The Joker]

There is recognition in his eyes. He doesn't make the connection, but he recognises Napier from somewhere and knows he wants to hurt this guy.

Kev, what are you talking about, man? You usually make good posts with great points. Where is this coming from?

If what you said was true, it would render the scene in Vicki Vale's apartment completely pointless. The penny doesn't drop that Bruce knows Napier until Napier says the dance with the devil line.

There's no recognition in his eyes. It's shock or angst because Napier is slipping from Batman's grasp. Why would he suddenly recognise him dangling over a vat of chemicals with a bloody face? Why didn't he recognise when he picked him up and stared him in the face?

It makes no sense.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

If what you said was true, it would render the scene in Vicki Vale's apartment completely pointless. The penny doesn't drop that Bruce knows Napier until Napier says the dance with the devil line.

The penny doesn't drop there either. Batman looks at Napier falling and recognises him from somewhere. In Vicki's apartment, the Joker says the dancing line and Bruce has further recognition. When there is the childhood remembered scene, Bruce recalls the face and the line and puts it all together and bingo.

 

[Catman]

The penny doesn't drop there either. Batman looks at Napier falling and recognises him from somewhere. In Vicki's apartment, the Joker says the dancing line and Bruce has further recognition. When there is the childhood remembered scene, Bruce recalls the face and the line and puts it all together and bingo.

Bruce Wayne is slow.

 

[The Joker]

The penny doesn't drop there either.

Of course it does. Why do you think he asks Alfred to get the file on his parents right after that incident in Vicki's apartment? If he thought he knew Napier from somewhere, he'd have investigated it earlier on. Especially when Napier reappears as The Joker.

I think you're reading way too much into a stunned look in Batman's eyes.

 

[mystory64]

There is recognition in his eyes."

 

[kooguy911]

its an easy explanation and doesnt need that much thought to realise it... the joker's gloves didnt have any grip and slipped out of batman's hands. The expressions on their faces and everything was just expressions on their faces and it doesnt mean anything except that they are good actors. You can clearly see what happened.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Batman's change of expression is clearly due to the fact that Napier's hand is slipping from his grasp. Hence why his eyes widen.

My god!! Fanboys scare me sometimes

QFT.

That's all I have to say here.

 

[Honey Vibe]

I think you're reading way too much into a stunned look in Batman's eyes.

Then what did he have to look stunned about? Whether it was the director's intention or not, it's interesting and holds water.

Fanboys scare me sometimes.

Kev hates fanboys. Call him 'Roegele Sensei' or he'll rip your lungs out.