BvS Batman fight scenes need improvement!

[tnekkralc]

Posted this in the 'Upcoming Batman Solo Movie' section, but going to post here as well for interest

Just watched Captain America Winter Soldier for the third time, and man, those hand to hand combat scenes (especially when Cap is fighting the Winter Soldier one on one) are first class. Upcoming movies featuring Bats really need to match this. Don't get me wrong, I'm a DC/Batman guy first and foremost but the live action fight scenes have always lacked. I know Nolan was going for 'realistic' but compare Cap/Winter Soldier to TDKR Batman/Bane's final fight...LAME. Even in BB and TDK you never got the feeling that Bat's REALLY dominated physically (apart from the way he looked), also he's always been shot way too slowly. Again needs to have that quick yet powerful force.

Here's a great example of how it should be done, you get the sense that he is a real badass:

Arkham City

To be clear I LOVE the Nolan movies and even like the fight scenes, but it could still be improved upon!

Thoughts?

 

[Gu3ree]

Well I enjoyed the Batman and Bane fight. Both scenes. But I'd like to see Batman using the speed Captain America did in TWS. Some more punches and kicks would be good. Less of Batman swinging or smashing his arm or fist down a guy's shoulder or back.

 

[The Endless]

If there is one thing i'm 100% confident in Snyder with, it's fight scenes. He'll do Batman justice, at least physically and visually.

 

[Fallen Angel]

If there is one thing i'm 100% confident in Snyder with, it's fight scenes. He'll do Batman justice, at least physically and visually.

Agreed.

The hand to hand combat scenes in CA:TWS were great. So anything like that and we'll all be happy.

 

[The Endless]

Yea. The first Cap vs Bucky fight in the street was just so fast and brutal. You could almost feel those blows landing. And it wasn't all fancy flipping around and over stylized. It was focused and straight to the point. Which is how Batman should fight.

 

[Jekecy]

If there is one thing i'm 100% confident in Snyder with, it's fight scenes. He'll do Batman justice, at least physically and visually.

Barring MOS and Sucker Punch, which were notably CGI-enhanced, Snyder isn't that acclaimed in fight choreography.

People always bring up 300 and Watchmen, but the former was mostly made up of short stints of slow-mo and the latter had its own brand of exaggerated movements. Neither which are particularly ideal for Batman.

There was one quick scene which was almost impressive; Rorschach fighting off the cops prior to getting caught. But that was literally over in seconds.

 

[The Endless]

That is true. Although i thought the alley fight was well done in Watchmen too. I think his Batman won't be over stylized though. I'm expecting a brutal and efficient fighting machine.

 

[DeadPresident]

Barring MOS and Sucker Punch, which were notably CGI-enhanced, Snyder isn't that acclaimed in fight choreography.

People always bring up 300 and Watchmen, but the former was mostly made up of short stints of slow-mo and the latter had its own brand of exaggerated movements. Neither which are particularly ideal for Batman.

There was one quick scene which was almost impressive; Rorschach fighting off the cops prior to getting caught. But that was literally over in seconds.

"Fight choreography" is exactly what people have a problem with from Nolan's TDKT though, so avoiding something overly technical is probably preferable. What Snyder did in Watchmen and 300 is precisely what's necessary for Batman's fighting style, bar the slow-motion. The prison break-in from Watchmen is good and so is the fight between Ozymandias and Rorschach/Nite Owl. So was the Comedian's scene when he jumps out of Archie but there he uses weapons too.

Snyder will get Batman's fighting right. A mixture between what Ozymandias and the Comedian were capable of is right in the Batman ballpark. Ozymandias was also supposed to be basically at the peak of human ability.

 

[tnekkralc]

Well I enjoyed the Batman and Bane fight. Both scenes. But I'd like to see Batman using the speed Captain America did in TWS. Some more punches and kicks would be good. Less of Batman swinging or smashing his arm or fist down a guy's shoulder or back.

Exactly

Yea. The first Cap vs Bucky fight in the street was just so fast and brutal. You could almost feel those blows landing. And it wasn't all fancy flipping around and over stylized. It was focused and straight to the point. Which is how Batman should fight.

YES!!!

 

[Stringer]

Barring MOS and Sucker Punch, which were notably CGI-enhanced, Snyder isn't that acclaimed in fight choreography.

People always bring up 300 and Watchmen, but the former was mostly made up of short stints of slow-mo and the latter had its own brand of exaggerated movements. Neither which are particularly ideal for Batman.

There was one quick scene which was almost impressive; Rorschach fighting off the cops prior to getting caught. But that was literally over in seconds.

I disagree. There was some wonderful fight cherography in Sucker Punch, namely the WWII fight or whatever.

 

[Isearch4dope]

It would be a dream come true if he fights like a raw, less stylized version of Ozymandias. Drifting more to action scenes I was thinking he needs to be effectively portrayed as extremely cunning and dangerous if we are to buy that a room full of trained men with guns don't stand a great chance against him (he's now in the world of meta-humans so his game needs to be upped). He should be able to use his gadgets with devastating accuracy and move with the one purpose of putting enemies on the ground. I hope he has batarangs that can lock on to targets by him simply looking at it. Of course this is assuming that the white lenses are activated in his battle mode. He should also have some kind of slight speed booster in the bottom toe area of his boots to give him that extra quick step on top of that which he already possesses. His cape should be bulletproof as well as the entire suit to some extent (via some special future kevlar material or better yet kryptonian fabric from Kara's crashed ship....because he's batman). His stance should be low to the ground and always seeking cover if necessary. He should attack like a controlled wild pig throwing batarangs, smoke bombs and flashbangs (cutting the lights etc.) already having gone through what the possible moves of the targets will be and those he has to make. I think he should only resort to hand to hand combat and using the gadgets above if he has already exhausted using tranq darts, sleeping gas (vents), poisoning etc. or doesn't have a choice. The thing that should make him dangerous to groups who can and should be able take him out if he is reckless is his unpredictability and ridiculous level of preparation and readiness for many scenarios. By the time they know he is present he should have already played a couple cards with a lot of tricks left in the deck. I think Batman is best and most impressive working his way down and this will present the universe as having formidable thinking foes (which includes the sometimes overly stupid bodyguards and goons) who he knows can f him up if he doesn't bring the terror of the Bat. With that foundation, when he enters the realm of fist cuffs against two or three henchmen we know they are going to be treated unjustly...lol. As for the actual choreography all we should be asking for is that Snyder thinks first and doesn't over-stylize his techniques or make him over-powered just for the sake of it being cool.

 

[StraightSix]

I'm having trouble imagining the fighting style this batman will have. In the one pic of him released, he looks massive which I wonder how it will affect mobility, speed and agility.

Movie magic I guess

 

[harryoscop]

It would be a dream come true if he fights like a raw, less stylized version of Ozymandias. Drifting more to action scenes I was thinking he needs to be effectively portrayed as extremely cunning and dangerous if we are to buy that a room full of trained men with guns don't stand a great against him (he's now in the world of meta-humans so his game needs to be upped). He should be able to use his gadgets with devastating accuracy and move with the one purpose of putting enemies on the ground. I hope he has batarangs that can lock on to targets by him simply looking at it. Of course this is assuming that the white lenses are activated in his battle mode. He should also have some kind of slight speed booster in the bottom toe area of his boots to give him that extra quick step on top of that which he already possesses. His cape should be bulletproof as well as the entire suit to some extent (via some special future kevlar material or better yet kryptonian fabric from Kara's crashed ship....because he's batman). His stance should be low to the ground and always seeking cover if necessary. He should attack like a controlled wild pig throwing batarangs, smoke bombs and flashbangs (cutting the lights etc.) already having gone through what the possible moves of the targets will be and those he has to make. I think he should only resort to hand to hand combat and using the gadgets above if he has already exhausted using tranq darts, sleeping gas (vents), poisoning etc. or doesn't have a choice. The thing that should make him dangerous to groups who can and should be able take him out if he is reckless is his unpredictability and ridiculous level of preparation and readiness for many scenarios. By the time they know he is present he should have already played a couple cards with a lot of tricks left in the deck. I think Batman is best and most impressive working his way down and this will present the universe as having formidable thinking foes (which includes the sometimes overly stupid bodyguards and goons) who he knows can f him up if he doesn't bring the terror of the Bat. With that foundation, when he enters the realm of fist cuffs against two or three henchmen we know they are going to be treated unjustly...lol. As for the actual choreography all we should be asking for is that Snyder thinks first and doesn't over-stylize his techniques or make him over-powered just for the sake of it being cool.

This!

 

[Nemeres]

I always wanted some good old-fashioned kung fu in a Batman movie. Back flips, roundhouse kicks, obscene speed, that kind of thing. Like so:

[YT]n2ut9G-AXjk[/YT]
Then again, the Watchmen fights were a bit over-the-top. This Batman is more on the bulky side, so I don't know if agility will be his thing, but the Cap 2 fights will definitely serve as a great referent. Do all sorts of crazy moves, then CGI the cape in later. I'm guessing Snyder and his go-to stunt guy had fun developing something specific for this film.

 

[Bwahaha!]

Cap America is super-powered, BM is not. Their fight scenes should look noticeably different. And it's been a few yrs, but I don't remember having any problems with Nolan's battle sequences. Lastly, I love Cap America! Hands down, my fav Marvel movie hero.

 

[HAMMER]

Posted this in the 'Upcoming Batman Solo Movie' section, but going to post here as well for interest

Just watched Captain America Winter Soldier for the third time, and man, those hand to hand combat scenes (especially when Cap is fighting the Winter Soldier one on one) are first class. Upcoming movies featuring Bats really need to match this. Don't get me wrong, I'm a DC/Batman guy first and foremost but the live action fight scenes have always lacked. I know Nolan was going for 'realistic' but compare Cap/Winter Soldier to TDKR Batman/Bane's final fight...LAME. Even in BB and TDK you never got the feeling that Bat's REALLY dominated physically (apart from the way he looked), also he's always been shot way too slowly. Again needs to have that quick yet powerful force.

Here's a great example of how it should be done, you get the sense that he is a real badass:

Arkham City

To be clear I LOVE the Nolan movies and even like the fight scenes, but it could still be improved upon!

Thoughts?

Ironically enough, they based some of Cap's fighting style off of Bats in the Arkham games. I have a hard time finding the article now, but its somewhere.

In fact, the takedown Cap does as soon as he climbs aboard the Marion Star is almost exactly like Batman's stealth takedown in Arkham City.

 

[Flint Marko]

If there is one thing i'm 100% confident in Snyder with, it's fight scenes. He'll do Batman justice, at least physically and visually.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how they square off the first time. I know Superman will come into the fight super cocky, and Batman will have some sort of trick up his sleeve. I hope they get a grade-A choreographer to make the scene's as visceral as possible.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Since when has Superman ever been super cocky?

 

[manofsteel4life]

Since DC ripped off Marvel

 

[harryoscop]

I hope this Batman can fight with grace and agility, similar to the Arkham games, no more of the clunky street brawler that Nolan's Batman was.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I hope Batman fights at least as good as Arrow. I have a feeling he'll be even better though.

 

[joeviterbo]

i think it'll be fine

 

[JOE]

I'd love to only see Batman in the shadows for his first couple scenes. Similar to TDKR where you see him beating a criminal to a pulp only by from the lightning.

 

[Flint Marko]

Since when has Superman ever been super cocky?

Did you hear how he addressed the general at the end of MoS after he smashed one of that satellites? Thats self-assurance that only near-invulnerability can give you. Maybe "cocky" isn't the right word, but the guy is the strongest man alive and he clearly knows it.

 

[HAMMER]

Uh, the set pics of the theater are making me freak out at work. My enthusiasm for this movie just shot through the roof. Snyder really is giving a lot of attention and respect to detail here, I haven't been this psyched for a Batman film since '89.