Batman reboot: Should it be based on realism, dark imagination, or silliness

[shauner111]

Ill do more than punch em!

 

[Anno_Domini]

If the new Batman film series is even comical it would be a laughing stock period that Warner Brothers went from Nolan's trilogy and backtracked to make something comical and satire.

 

[Frodo]

If WB wanted my two cents I'd sugguest the next Batman film kinda go the Casino Royale route of reboot. Go for a much smaller scale story than TDKR. Something that doesn't involve the whole city or taking it over etc. Focus on a younger Batman in his prime but one that's been around a few years. Return Batman to being the urban warrior fighting all types of crimes instead of primarily focussing on the "Big Fish" and the Mob as he did in the Nolan films. As far as Bruce Wayne goes, i'd ditch the whole ," I'd give up being Batman for you" stuff of the previous films. The love interest department really only seems to make an impact with characters like Catwoman .

Unless the love interest really serves the plot , I'd chuck it , and instead give him a female cop who works with him on background , much like Carter does with Reese and Finch on Person of Interest. She can be intrigued by him, but I wouldn't want anything to happen . It could just be kind of an unspoken thing in which she knows he's unstable and he wouldn't ever cross that line as Batman. I think Elementary's Holmes and Watson relationship is a good example.

Bruce can always been seen with his models and high society types but as a love interest taking up time in order for us to try and believe he'd give the world to her...not so much. Been there done that, imo. Catwoman can be the one he has sparks with.

As far as characters go , i'd take the ASM route on focus on characters and aspects of the Batman legend which haven't been focussed on yet or much. I'd love to see a characters like Leslie Thompkins play a big role in expanding Bruce Wayne's inner circle. She could be a mother figuare to Bruce and clearly have so past with Alfred . I see her as being one of the few people who Bruce would actually listen to and abide by.

I think as far as tone goes , I think the Arkham city games are a pretty good guide in terms of tone. Not depressing like TDKR was , but not Jokey like BF was.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Yeah, I really want Bruce not to be conflicted with Batman but rather Batman conflicted with Bruce.

 

[Jick]

I never felt like TDKR was depressing. I don't even think these movies are dark. Just serious.

When I think of dark, I think of Daredevil and Matt pulling out his teeth in the shower.

 

[Frodo]

I found it depreasing but that's just me. TDKR aside, is like to return to the hungry and driven Batman of Miller's year one and returns. I don't wanna see another film about Bruce wanting to settledown or give up because of Rachel, Bambie, Ms Wisconsin or whoever. Its a pretty tired and lame plot point imo which doesn't really work with the Bruce Wayne character.

 

[BlueLightning]

I think it works. Because on a certain level, Bruce is doing all of this because he lost his family, it drives him to make a world where this doesn't happen to anyone else. But even though he is a loner, he starts gathering a new family. On the comics, all of the sidekicks he has had, he builds a family. Since the grounded approach the Nolanverse has, sidekicks like them wouldn't work, the desire to have his own family and reach happiness is the same.

That said, I'm ready for a very comicbooky Batman film, with dinosaurs and giant pennies on the Batcave.

 

[Destructus86]

I felt the Nolan films were way too much about Wayne...and that's not what a Batman film should be about. It should be Batman conflicted with his alter ego named Wayne. Not the other way around. Batman is who he is. Wayne is the costume.

 

[Frodo]

I think it works. Because on a certain level, Bruce is doing all of this because he lost his family, it drives him to make a world where this doesn't happen to anyone else. But even though he is a loner, he starts gathering a new family. On the comics, all of the sidekicks he has had, he builds a family. Since the grounded approach the Nolanverse has, sidekicks like them wouldn't work, the desire to have his own family and reach happiness is the same.
.

I don't think the love interest thing has ever really worked in live action Batman films, including Nolan's. I get your overall point , though I think it applies more to the Batman family like Alfred , Dick Grayson etc, but as far as giving it up for Rachel, Chase, etc, the concept hasn't never really worked in 6 films. Ironically enough , Selina and Andrea MOTP, are the only two women who you could actually believe he would settle down with, and they're both villians and anti heroes.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I felt the Nolan films were way too much about Wayne...and that's not what a Batman film should be about. It should be Batman conflicted with his alter ego named Wayne. Not the other way around. Batman is who he is. Wayne is the costume.

Speaking from psychology terms, Bruce is the man, and Batman is the drug. Batman shares the 'heightened' personality traits of what's within Bruce Wayne...but when the mask comes off, once he's away from the thought of crime, he's the man again.

But Nolan eliminated that element of Batman being the drug that Bruce can't live without. This meant we saw a totally out of character ending where Bruce Wayne was living in the sun with a girl...
Nolan wanted to give Batman a happy ending...

Batman CAN NEVER have one of those. It's not in his character to think or live like that...he's disturbed, he can only fight through all those emotions while being Batman.

While I enjoyed Nolan's character study of a different Bruce Wayne...he eliminated important elements.

And I don't think Batman having conflicts with being Bruce is disturbing enough...it should be Bruce having conflicts with being Bruce.

 

[BlueLightning]

But Nolan eliminated that element of Batman being the drug that Bruce can't live without. This meant we saw a totally out of character ending where Bruce Wayne was living in the sun with a girl...
Nolan wanted to give Batman a happy ending...

Batman CAN NEVER have one of those. It's not in his character to think or live like that...he's disturbed, he can only fight through all those emotions while being Batman.

Why? I don't really understand this. It is not a new idea, watch Mask of the Phantasm for example. Along with the graveyard scene, Bruce expresses a desire for happiness.

BRUCE
Maybe after this is settled... Maybe then...

ALFRED
I'm sure they'd have wanted you to be happy.


With an ending tale like Rises, it works. In my personal opinion, on a meta level, the character deserved it.

 

[Rodrigo90]

But wasn't that before he became Batman in MOTP?

People with bad backgrounds, such as Bruce, express the desire for a happy life. But with such severe emotional problems, and that desire that Bruce has, would it be possible or last?

Nolan eliminated the severity of Bruce's disturbed mind, and MOTP added to it later.

 

[BlueLightning]

Actually, it was when Andrea returned, he was willing to give up his Batman persona. It wasn't an isolated incident, I remember the episode "Chemistry" where Bruce does give up being Batman because he finds a perfect woman for him Susan Maguire... who turns out to be a Poison Ivy plant monster, but the point remains because it is stated that while she attracted Bruce at first with pheromones, she actually made him fall in love with her because she was playing to be the perfect woman for him. But I disgress.

I also think that the disturbed mind Bruce has was still present on the trilogy, but it was a more "organic" (?) approach. He was still a broken, obsessive man with trust issues. The fact that he could overcome all of that at the end plays great when talking about an ending.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Ah, right.

So maybe it is love that will stop Bruce from being Batman?

He lost it with his parents, which destroyed him and made him become Batman. When he finds it again, it repairs him?

 

[BlueLightning]

We don't know. The ending of the Dark Knight Rises just showed us that Bruce is willing to give a chance for happiness, where before he was sunk into thinking that everything had been lost. That's the only think we see. He is on a new journey now.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That's true.

I have nothing against TDKR ending, I liked it very much actually, for it's own story.

It all depends on the writing though. Some days we have a Bruce that dedicates his last days to fighting crime, while others, we have him retire to the good life.

And we all have that desire to see our heroes have a happy ending...but another part of us wants to see the true core of the character, that he's a dedicated crime fighter with a lifetime job.

 

[BlueLightning]

That's true.
And we all have that desire to see our heroes have a happy ending...but another part of us wants to see the true core of the character, that he's a dedicated crime fighter with a lifetime job.

That's another thing. I for one, being fan of the character for so long, I'm happy that he finally got a happy ending of sorts.

 

[Rodrigo90]

So am I. Most people wanted to see him standing like Michael Keaton at end of B89...but that was never going to happen.

It all got wrapped up nicely. Bruce ensured that Batman would live on and Gotham would remain safe, so it wasn't like he abandoned Batman altogether without a seconds thought. He was only going to give it up in TDK because he thought Harvey was going to take up the role of Gotham's protector.

Batman in the comics has been written as a man without an end because, as we know, he can't end.
But if it was coming to end, I would prefer an ending like TDKR.

 

[BlueLightning]

But if it was coming to end, I would prefer an ending like TDKR.

^ This.

 

[Coca Cola Duracell Franklin.]

Nolan eliminated the severity of Bruce's disturbed mind, and MOTP added to it later.

Bruce lived in seclusion for eight years. Are you serious?

 

[shauner111]

That's another thing. I for one, being fan of the character for so long, I'm happy that he finally got a happy ending of sorts.

That's the thing. The films will NEVER let Bruce Wayne have a happy ending ever again and the comics won't either. So Nolans ending is pretty exclusive and Batman fans should be a bit thankful to see their favorite character ride off into the sunset. Cuz they certainly wont be seeing it again.

 

[Coca Cola Duracell Franklin.]

Just make it like the videogames please.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Bruce lived in seclusion for eight years. Are you serious?

It's not really 'comic book Batman' disturbed. And besides, a few scenes later, he was just fine, like nothing had happened

 

[johndoe123]

Why? I don't really understand this. It is not a new idea, watch Mask of the Phantasm for example. Along with the graveyard scene, Bruce expresses a desire for happiness.

BRUCE
Maybe after this is settled... Maybe then...

ALFRED
I'm sure they'd have wanted you to be happy.


With an ending tale like Rises, it works. In my personal opinion, on a meta level, the character deserved it.

Yeah I have to disgree with you there. If Bruce had any kind of character arc in MOTP, it was learning that he can never truly be happy. I agree that Bruce would like nothing more to be happy, the problem is in the long run he can't be. Say him and Andrea ever had settled down together and gave up being Batman, how many more of those "omens" like the bats coming out of the cave and the lighting flashing when he was at his parents grave, would Bruce have seen, thinking that it was his parents telling him from the beyond the grave that he's failing to fulfill his promise to them. How many times would he'd have seen the Joker terrorizing the Gotham and being able to do nothing about, thus failing in his personal oath to never let what happened to him never happened to anyone else ever again.

So yes, Bruce is capable and even wants happiness, but he can't allowed himself to be because Batman was born out of pain, misery, and horror, these are the things that give him his drive and his will, anything else makes him incapable of being Batman and unable to stop Gotham from falling into chaos.

 

[BlueLightning]

But the thing is that Bruce doesn't deny himself happiness. It's the environment. Batman is born out of a necessity, a theme played in Year One and Batman Begins. He is there to return Gotham to the citizens, because the law is corrupted and can do nothing about it. On comics and cartoons, he has to keep going. In this approach, this "balance" is already reached at the beginning of Rises, thus rendering Batman useless. But you know the story, now we have a Bruce who is physically worn out, he can do this anymore, he gave everything he had. Similar to the Rebirth episode on Batman Beyond, where Bruce cannot keep doing his Batman gig because old age and he quits, but on Rises the toll on his body came earlier.

And talking about happy endings, remember Epilogue? We have Terry McGinnis who thinks that he is burdened with a curse, that he is unable to be happy because the mantle of the Bat prevents it, because he learns that it's his destiny to follow Bruce's steps. But he learns that he can overcome that, and be his own man. It is a similar theme that is played on Rises too, but with Bruce as the protagonist. So, it is not a far fetched theme.