Batwoman BATWOMAN News & Discussion Thread

[WhoMani]

If you cast LGBT actress for a gay role then you will be accused by one side of "pandering" and being a "sjw". If you cast a straight actress then you will be accused by the far left of being against inclusion and diversity. You be damned if you do but damned if you don't.

 

[Frodo]

If you cast LGBT actress for a gay role then you will be accused by one side of "pandering" and being a "sjw". If you cast a straight actress then you will be accused by the far left of being against inclusion and diversity. You be damned if you do but damned if you don't.

Pretty much. Its sort of a no win situation. There were cries of "SJW" when the Batwoman character was announced as a lesbian in the comics anyway.

If CW goes back on that after making a big deal out of casting a gay actress , the left will freak out and it would draw the ire of those on the left who probably don't watch the show to begin with.

Funny thing is, the whole Ruby Rose situation actually reminds me of Val Kilmer and Schumacer parting ways before Batman and Robin went into production.

It was the same sort of circumstance in which Kilmer walked and Schumacer fired him. There was also tension and drama on the set of BF.

 

[Dark Raven]

Pretty much. Its sort of a no win situation. There were cries of "SJW" when the Batwoman character was announced as a lesbian in the comics anyway.

If CW goes back on that after making a big deal out of casting a gay actress , the left will freak out and it would draw the ire of those on the left who probably don't watch the show to begin with.

Funny thing is, the whole Ruby Rose situation actually reminds me of Val Kilmer and Schumacer parting ways before Batman and Robin went into production.

It was the same sort of circumstance in which Kilmer walked and Schumacer fired him. There was also tension and drama on the set of BF.

That means we're due for the George Clooney of Batwomen up next.

 

[WhoMani]

If CW goes back on that after making a big deal out of casting a gay actress , the left will freak out and it would draw the ire of those on the left who probably don't watch the show to begin with.

It doesn't help that the audience is incredibly divisive and that there is toxicity about this show on both sides of the political spectrum. I personally don't care about the political stuff. I just want a well written show with good acting from the main cast, that's all. But I will be very surprise if the show gets a season 3.... we have to wait and see. The new lead actress has to make a good first impression and have good chemistry with the rest of the core supporting cast.

 

[Primal Slayer]

It doesn't help that the audience is incredibly divisive and that there is toxicity about this show on both sides of the political spectrum. I personally don't care about the political stuff. I just want a well written show with good acting from the main cast, that's all. But I will be very surprise if the show gets a season 3.... we have to wait and see. The new lead actress has to make a good first impression and have good chemistry with the rest of the core supporting cast.

It will have to do SO BAD....as in like 100k viewers for it not to get a 3rd season. Any show on TheCW has gone on for at least 4 seasons if they get a 2nd season pick up. Last time CW canceled a show in its 2nd season was practically 10 years ago.

 

[WhoMani]

It will have to do SO BAD....as in like 100k viewers for it not to get a 3rd season. Any show on TheCW has gone on for at least 4 seasons if they get a 2nd season pick up. Last time CW canceled a show in its 2nd season was practically 10 years ago.

Yeah you have a point as CW don't really care about ratings but they care more about streaming numbers on the CW app, Netflix or any other streaming platforms. My point is if the core loyal audience would be willing accept the new actress as most of them seemed to love Ruby Rose.

 

[Frodo]

It doesn't help that the audience is incredibly divisive and that there is toxicity about this show on both sides of the political spectrum. I personally don't care about the political stuff. I just want a well written show with good acting from the main cast, that's all. But I will be very surprise if the show gets a season 3.... we have to wait and see. The new lead actress has to make a good first impression and have good chemistry with the rest of the core supporting cast.

Yeah, that's what I'd like too. We're kinda living in an age when the culture/political wars have seeped into alot of these geek properties in a way they didn't back in the day.

So, now the usual fan debates and discourse also have this political component added to the mix across several superhero and sci fi properties.

You add to that the actors, writers, producers themselves ,are far more vocal with regards to their own political and culture views in a way they weren't even during the Smallville days..

May you blessed to live in interesting times.

 

[Dark Raven]

You'd think that they ought to be able to have better casting next time round, but who knows? They're picking from such a small pool of talent instead of having a much broader selection where they can pick the best actress or actor for a part. Ruby Rose was pretty much "ok, she's lesbian and has appeared in some stuff, so she gets the part regardless of whether she can act."

 

[Frodo]

You'd think that they ought to be able to have better casting next time round, but who knows? They're picking from such a small pool of talent instead of having a much broader selection where they can pick the best actress or actor for a part. Ruby Rose was pretty much "ok, she's lesbian and has appeared in some stuff, so she gets the part regardless of whether she can act."

Yeah. It seems to me the whole project was on shaky ground anyway, at least that's how I felt.

I don't know anything about the character from the comics other than what I've seen on the show, so I really don't know if its reflective of the comics or not.

The show feels derivative of Arrow and some of the other CWverse shows, but with no real soul to it , for lack of a better term. I mean, I get they have a formula for all their shows, but I feel like the show is still missing something or somethings to make it unique.

You add to that, a lead who wasn't the best actress in the world, with a characterization which is pretty one note imo.

Grant and Melissa have such personality ,charm, and talent, that have carried their shows through some of their weakest and worst moments. I sit through even the bad to filler episodes of their shows because I know they're always gonna deliver regardless of the quality of the writing.

Ruby Rose doesn't have that quality about her as an actress...yet. It's nothing personal against her , its just that some actors and actresses have it and some don't.

The new lead of Stargirl totally has that quality about her. I think that's one of the reasons her debut has been so positively received across the board.

 

[chamber-music]

CW won't cancel Batwoman.

Domestic live numbers don't mean much to their business model which relies more on streaming and foreign international buys.

Hardly anyone watches CW's Dynasty reboot domestically but it gets renewed year after year.

Being the lead in a CW superhero show is probably the nearest thing to job security your going to get as a actor.

Supernatural and Arrow only ended because the lead actors wanted to quit. Pretty sure the 100 is ending because the showrunner is done with it also.

 

[Dark Raven]

How can they verify is someone is a lesbian?

If an actress is bi, isn't that enough? And what if a lesbian actress suddenly decides halfway through her run that she does in fact like men as well? Then that makes her bi and not full-on lesbian. So now she doesn't meet their requirements anymore. Are they going to recast? And what if a straight or bi woman later decided that she only liked women anymore? Then they've missed their opportunity.

That's why it's silly to demand that the actress be a complete lesbian. That seriously limits the talent pool. And if they don't want to go for an unknown because they want a star, then that makes it even harder, as it's not like there are so many who fit every aspect and can act.

 

[Primal Slayer]

How can they verify is someone is a lesbian?

If an actress is bi, isn't that enough? And what if a lesbian actress suddenly decides halfway through her run that she does in fact like men as well? Then that makes her bi and not full-on lesbian. So now she doesn't meet their requirements anymore. Are they going to recast? And what if a straight or bi woman later decided that she only liked women anymore? Then they've missed their opportunity.

That's why it's silly to demand that the actress be a complete lesbian. That seriously limits the talent pool. And if they don't want to go for an unknown because they want a star, then that makes it even harder, as it's not like there are so many who fit every aspect and can act.

Correct me if im wrong but they'v always said they're looking for a LGBTQ actress, not just an L. She can be bi.

To me....yeah I can totally agree they are partially doing it for the publicity as many do but it isnt also that big of a deal (for me) that they want 1 character to be portrayed by an actor who isnt straight. Isnt taking anyway anything.

 

[Dark Raven]

Correct me if im wrong but they'v always said they're looking for a LGBTQ actress, not just an L. She can be bi.

To me....yeah I can totally agree they are partially doing it for the publicity as many do but it isnt also that big of a deal (for me) that they want 1 character to be portrayed by an actor who isnt straight. Isnt taking anyway anything.

I got the feeling last time round that a bi actress wasn't good enough and that they needed a full-on lesbian. I can't remember if they specified it too.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I got the feeling last time round that a bi actress wasn't good enough and that they needed a full-on lesbian. I can't remember if they specified it too.

I thought Ruby Rose identified as bi.

 

[Dark Raven]

I thought Ruby Rose identified as bi.

I thought she identified as gender fluid. Even that was a problem for the LGBT crowd. Maybe they'd prefer someone who is 100% lesbian, never mind that she can't act.

 

[Snow Queen]

I don't know anything about the character from the comics other than what I've seen on the show, so I really don't know if its reflective of the comics or not.

The show feels derivative of Arrow and some of the other CWverse shows, but with no real soul to it , for lack of a better term. I mean, I get they have a formula for all their shows, but I feel like the show is still missing something or somethings to make it unique.

It's definitely not reflective of the material. They've made changes to cram it into their mold, but beyond that they've made a lot of alterations that weaken the characters their dynamics. Kate and Beth suffer the most but none of them really capture why I like any of these characters to begin with, which is obviously a pretty major thing with an adaptation. From backstory changes like adding the whole Mouse stuff and playing up the dumb cousin angle to present day personality changes like making Alice much more in control of herself and another revenge-obsessed villain and the fact Ruby Rose never feels like Kate but just like she's playing her own persona, it loses... everything.

 

[chamber-music]

They should just cast someone non-binary or asexual and watch everyone get mad

 

[Fincher]

They should just cast someone non-binary or asexual and watch everyone get mad

That's basically what they did with Ruby. She doesn't particularly identify as male or female, so critics didn't think she counted as a lesbian.

(By critics, I mean critical people, not critics)

 

[Dark Raven]

I'd take the actresses playing Julia or Reagan as Kate Kane than Ruby Rose.

 

[Thome216]

Pretty much. Its sort of a no win situation. There were cries of "SJW" when the Batwoman character was announced as a lesbian in the comics anyway.

If CW goes back on that after making a big deal out of casting a gay actress , the left will freak out and it would draw the ire of those on the left who probably don't watch the show to begin with.

Funny thing is, the whole Ruby Rose situation actually reminds me of Val Kilmer and Schumacer parting ways before Batman and Robin went into production.

It was the same sort of circumstance in which Kilmer walked and Schumacer fired him. There was also tension and drama on the set of BF.

Well, as a man on the Left, I would not freak!

I think locking themselves into gender politics for any lead or any part is just bad. Whether the actor/tress is good enough should be the only factor taken into consideration, not whether an actress has 'tried the taco and liked the taco, and will keep going to the taco...'

That's prejudice plain and simple.

And if the audience freaks because said actor/tress is or isn't gay according to the role they would play, then are they really interested in watching a good show, or do they just want to gather around another soap box?

 

[Dark Raven]

I saw that. I watch This Morning videos on YT every once in a while. You could see how much of a weight it was on him, and how the act in and of itself was like moving a boulder up a hill with ice skates. I know a lot of people think it is now "easy" to be out and proud. It reminds me of how some people react to the idea that racism exist post- The Civil Rights Movement. Just because gay marriage is legal in the US, didn't suddenly shut down bigotry.

That should be the new lockdown challenge on social media. See who can do that.

 

[jmc]

If you cast LGBT actress for a gay role then you will be accused by one side of "pandering" and being a "sjw". If you cast a straight actress then you will be accused by the far left of being against inclusion and diversity. You be damned if you do but damned if you don't.

This is why planting a flag like this was eventually going to come back and bite someone in the arse. It makes no sense as to why any company would intentionally handcuff themselves like this.

 

[Frodo]

This is why planting a flag like this was eventually going to come back and bite someone in the arse. It makes no sense as to why any company would intentionally handcuff themselves like this.

I think they, the producers and the company, thought it would be good PR ,in addition to truly wanting the lead to be a lesbian as opposed a straight actress.

Her casting did get glowing coverage in terms of the media, though she also faced backlash as well online.

In the end, it sort of ended up being a wash anyway since it was never going to be enough to keep the viewers there.

It did generate publicity, but after that, the actress and show have to deliver in order to keep people interested.

 

[jmc]

And it blew up spectacularly in their face, because who the person wants to sleep with in their personal lives was the bigger factor than an actual good show with a charismatic lead. It's creatively backwards. That kinda goes for these CW shows in general, there's a real lack of standards from the shows I've seen. I've managed to sit through one season of Supergirl. Everything else I've struggled to get past the first few episodes. Even crappy ratings don't seem to matter, it's content made for the sake of having content. Is anyone from the top breathing down peoples neck telling them to do good work or be fired? Did no-one point out they would be severely limited in their pool of talent? Other than Ruby is anyone else going to lose their job over this kerfuffle? Probably not is my guess, because no-one is being held to account. So you get to situations like this where people are making decisions where the outcome doesn't matter because there's no demands being placed on the people making the show in the first place.

 

[Dark Raven]

Last time round it was literally a case of "what lesbian actresses do we know? Oh, Ruby Rose." Then she was immediately cast.

It's like if they were to cast Lex Luthor or Professor X based on "what bald men do we know?" and then casting the only bald man they can find who is available when someone could easily shave their head. Or "who do we know who is muscular?" and then casting a wrestler or bodybuilder in a role because that's all they can think of instead of an actor training and bulking up for the part.

Even with Supergirl, they didn't just pick the only blonde actress they knew. Melissa dyed her hair once she got the part, but she was a brunette before.