Ben Affleck or Christian Bale?

[The Joker]

Do you remember what happened EXACTLY after that? He kicked Alfred out of his life and didn't think twice about it. Garbage, all because of a woman. Even after hearing that he still proceeded to put the cape and cowl back on to do his job.....

He didn't kick Alfred out of his life. Alfred told him he was leaving beforehand because he was trying to make him realize he can't be Batman any more. Again another example of you not paying simple attention to the movie.

In case your next point is going to be Alfred would never walk out on Bruce, he would and he has. Just say the word and I'll post the comic book scans.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Anyone who believes this did not pay attention to the movies.

I payed attention just fine, thank you very much.

 

[DACrowe]

There's more amazing Batman moments in BvS than all other Batman movies combined - the batmobile chase scene, Batman's three-steps-ahead strategy for taking down Superman, his mythological reputation among criminals and police, his conflicted and suave Bruce Wayne, and THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE EVER SEEN A LIVE-ACTION BATMAN ACTUALLY FIGHT AND IT'S AMAZING! Batman is brutal throughout the whole movie, he's not playing around here and he's not just a bat-suited Law & Order detective. And by the end of the movie Superman has inspired Batman to be a better person. Yes. YES! This is easily the best live-action Batman ever, Ben Affleck nailed it.

I will give you he is no detective. The Nolan Batman was able to build a legal case for the DA's office on his first week on the job in BB by rounding up all the evidence needed to prosecute and blackmail a crooked judge. He then was able to trace the Joker's whereabouts on a shattered ballistic shell in TDK and could name on duty beat cops from hundreds of yards away at a glance.

The one in BvS couldn't figure out who was sending him pictures about his dead parents--clearly implying someone out there knew he was actually Batman! He didn't have time to sweat the small details. Not when there is an illegal alien to hunt and kill because justice.

 

[The Joker]

Interesting. I had never seen that before. Any idea which story it's from?

I payed attention just fine, thank you very much.

No offense, but you didn't. If you had you wouldn't be stating something that is factually wrong.

 

[Tony Gunk]

I knew this thread would be juicy, Nolan Batman fans being told something in a different Batman film was better than something from their beloved trilogy. It was always bound to cause a stir

 

[bbasher]

What is your argument here? You were proven wrong about the whole "Quit because of Rachel" thing. So now you're shifting to... What?

Bruce said goodbye to Alfred because he betrayed his trust in a massive way. Alfred said goodbye because he didn't want to watch someone he loved like a son go act out his death wish, and there was no talking him out if it (he tried... for years).

This has happened in the comics before, for much the same reasons.

And yes, even after hearing that, he does put the cape and cowl back on... Because Rachel had nothing to do with his decision to be/not be Batman, it's a different issue.

Never said he quit because of Rachel. I said he was looking for a reason to NOT continue to be Batman after Begins and his out was to make everyone believe that he killed Dent so Gotham would hate him and he wouldn't be needed anymore with the Dent Act.

He sure loved being Batman so much that he was addicted to it.....for a year and a half.

 

[hafizbat]

Affleck. A Batman who quits is not Batman.

But a Batman who willfully kills is?

Let's make something clear. Bale never quit. He won. Quitting implies he gave up before finishing the job. Bale did something Batman has never done before, which is to actually succeed.

A far, far better change to the character than making him a crazy murderer.

 

[titansupes]

I knew this thread would be juicy, Nolan Batman fans being told something in a different Batman film was better than something from their beloved trilogy. It was always bound to cause a stir

Batfleck fans being told that an accurate suit and (great) fighting doesn't equal accurate or meaningful characterization.

 

[The Batman]

Interesting. I had never seen that before. Any idea which story it's from?

I myself don't know off hand. I'll have to ask Joker about it.

.... That's a damn fine point.

Yeah, I feel like if you established Batman as a no kills/no gun guy, then showed the sequnce, the sight of Bats doing something so OOC would signify how bat***** that particular situation was.

Another poster mentioned this (theShape, I think). Where do you stand with this concept?

How it was executed in the film left me indifferent, to be honest.

 

[The Joker]

I knew this thread would be juicy, Nolan Batman fans being told something in a different Batman film was better than something from their beloved trilogy. It was always bound to cause a stir

That's nothing to do with it. This is a factual debate, not one based on opinions. You can prefer what ever you like, I'm not telling anyone they are wrong for that. But state Batman would never do this, or Batman quit because of that, these are not opinionated statements. These are factual ones that can be proven or disproved.

 

[Deserana]

Still Bale. I loved Affleck in the role but I was definitely put off by some desicions.

If it was on pure badassery then Affleck all day. Also look has to be Affleck.

To be honest if Affleck just has one decent solo movie I'll pick him but so far Bale. He has more character and I absolutely love that trilogy. I'm not one of those fans who jumped from Nolan to Snyder to Nolan during the course of the last three years either.

If this was real life though I'd feel far safer knowing Affleck was on the streets. There's clearly a great story to be told with Afflecks Batman though. A prequel explaining why he is the way he is in BvS would make him better IMO.

 

[bbasher]

But a Batman who willfully kills is?

Let's make something clear. Bale never quit. He won. Quitting implies he gave up before finishing the job. Bale did something Batman has never done before, which is to actually succeed.

A far, far better change to the character than making him a crazy murderer.

You know what, he DID win, and Nolan should've left it at that. Rises was not needed.

 

[SiegePerilous]

I have issues with both, but overall I loved Affleck. I would never say he's the better actor in general, but I felt he fits the character better than Bale. He gave his all, and it showed. I don't really like the killing either but...Keaton and Bale killed as well.

I wish he made his debut in a better movie though. I'm eager to see more of this incarnation, preferably with Affleck directing.

And no, this has nothing to do with Affleck being the "shiny new toy." I was "meh" on Bale's take when TDK came out. I think I'll always prefer Affleck, he's right up there with Keaton and Conroy for me now.

The one in BvS couldn't figure out who was sending him pictures about his dead parents--clearly implying someone out there knew he was actually Batman! He didn't have time to sweat the small details. Not when there is an illegal alien to hunt and kill because justice.

This never happened. Clark got pictures of criminals Bats brutalized, Bruce got rejected checks and newspaper clippings with "You let your family die!" and other things on them.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Nolan's faults deal with superficial and aesthetic elements more than anything. But I feel like a lot of those come down to preferences. But I'm willing to let those preferences go if it means a better story. You know if the only problems with Nolan's Batman are aesthetic choices and your own preference then your Batman film is in good shape. Though I understand why people have a problem with a finite Batman.

Batman is infinite in the comics because comics are infinite. He will never stop so those things go hand in hand and it's worked for a character as obsessive as Batman too. But it's okay for Batman to want to live a normal life, even if he may never get it and he knows it. He's human remember so he's capable of hanging up the cape unlike Superman who can never hang up his powers so to speak.

 

[hafizbat]

Also it's rather silly to hold it against Bale for "quitting" while holding up Affleck for remaining Batman, considering Affleck clearly states his work as Batman doesn't mean anything to him. The movie makes it clear that he thinks killing Superman (for no goddamn reason) will be the legacy of his life. When Alfredo reminds him of all he's done as Batman over the years, he replies saying that criminals are just weeds that will grow back.

You guys are praising him for sticking to a mission he himself doesn't even value. The only reason this guy is still Batman is because he's a psycho who likes it.

 

[titansupes]

Never said he quit because of Rachel. I said he was looking for a reason to NOT continue to be Batman after Begins and his out was to make everyone believe that he killed Dent so Gotham would hate him and he wouldn't be needed anymore with the Dent Act.

He sure loved being Batman so much that he was addicted to it.....for a year and a half.

He never planned on being Batman indefinitely.

"Will you be back in Gotham long, sir?"
"As long as it takes to show these people that their city doesn't belong to the criminal and the corrupt..."

That was consciously. Subconsciously, though? He needed Batman more than he ever hoped. And Rachel knew it, though he didn't.

"Batman's just a mask..."
"No Bruce *touches his face* THIS is your mask. Your real face is the one criminals now fear..."

In TDK--

"I told you that when the day came when Gotham didn't need Batman, we'd be together... But now I'm sure the day won't come when YOU no longer need Batman..."

So he gave up Batman for the greater good-- He and Gordon had saved Gotham, and batman would now do more harm than good. TDKR clearly shows that on a deeper level, internally, he was itching to be Batman again. Because though he'd saved Gotham (at that point), he hadn't excised his demons.

 

[Mindreaper21]

No offense, but you didn't. If you had you wouldn't be stating something that is factually wrong.

Bruce made Rachel his reason for not wanting to be Batman. Through out TDK specifically, everything revolved around her. He clearly searched for a reason to quit. Being Batman became more of a job than a desire. Bruce asked her point blank if she would be with him if he stopped being Batman. He was going to give up everything he built for her. Not my Batman.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

But a Batman who willfully kills is?

Let's make something clear. Bale never quit. He won. Quitting implies he gave up before finishing the job. Bale did something Batman has never done before, which is to actually succeed.

A far, far better change to the character than making him a crazy murderer.

Wait a minute. Are you saying that all crime stopped as soon as Bale hung up the cape? Never realized that...

 

[Doctor Jones]

I didn't mind Bruce quitting and getting a happy ending and winding up with Selina. Because we will never see that in the comics. The fact that we saw Bruce finally get a happy ending, this poor man who has been through so much where compared to in the comics he will always suffer was something I enjoyed seeing and I was happy for him because he earned it.

 

[titansupes]

Nolan's faults deal with superficial and aesthetic elements more than anything. But I feel like a lot of those come down to preferences. But I'm willing to let those preferences go if it means a better story. You know if the only problems with Nolan's Batman are aesthetic choices than your Batman film is in good shape. Though I understand why people have a problem with a finite Batman.

Batman is infinite in the comics because comics are infinite. He will never stop so those things go hand in hand and it's worked for a character as obsessive as Batman too. But it's okay for Batman to want to live a normal life, even if he may never get it and he knows it. He's human remember so he's capable of hanging up the cape unlike Superman who can never hang up his powers so to speak.

Also it's rather silly to hold it against Bale for "quitting" while holding up Affleck for remaining Batman, considering Affleck clearly states his work as Batman doesn't mean anything to him. The movie makes it clear that he thinks killing Superman (for no goddamn reason) will be the legacy of his life. When Alfredo reminds him of all he's done as Batman over the years, he replies saying that criminals are just weeds that will grow back.

You guys are praising him for sticking to a mission he himself doesn't even value. The only reason this guy is still Batman is because he's a psycho who likes it.

 

[bbasher]

Also it's rather silly to hold it against Bale for "quitting" while holding up Affleck for remaining Batman, considering Affleck clearly states his work as Batman doesn't mean anything to him. The movie makes it clear that he thinks killing Superman (for no goddamn reason) will be the legacy of his life. When Alfredo reminds him of all he's done as Batman over the years, he replies saying that criminals are just weeds that will grow back.

You guys are praising him for sticking to a mission he himself doesn't even value. The only reason this guy is still Batman is because he's a psycho who likes it.

I'm looking forward to see what caused him to say those things, because it's obvious that's what we're going to be getting.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'd rather Bruce quit being Batman than continue to grow old and become a murderer who uses guns, the very thing that killed his parents and yeah, him becoming the thing he swore to defeat.

That's the ultimate defeat for Batman.

That, "We've always been criminals" justification is stupid in this context. I never thought Snyder would misunderstand that about Batman, if anything.

 

[The Joker]

Bruce made Rachel his reason for not wanting to be Batman. Through out TDK specifically, everything revolved around her. He clearly searched for a reason to quit. Being Batman became more of a job than a desire. Bruce asked her point blank if she would be with him if he stopped being Batman. He was going to give up everything he built for her. Not my Batman.

That's what you say, but show me a single shred of proof from the movie that supports this. I'm not making an unreasonable request here. If it's such a fact it should be easy for you to prove. The movie says the total OPPOSITE of what you just said. He was not giving up anything for her. He was giving up because of the situation with the Joker killing people because of him.

Batman: "You're going to hold a press conference tomorrow"
Dent: "Why?"
Batman: "Nobody else will die because of me. Gotham's in your hands now"
Dent: "You can't. You can't give in. YOU CAN'T GIVE IN!!!!"

Bruce: "People are dying, Alfred. What would you have me do?"
Alfred: "Endure, Master Wayne. Take it. They'll hate you for it. But that's the point of Batman. He can be the outcast. He can make the choice that no one else can make. The right choice."
Bruce: "Today I found out what Batman can't do. He can't endure this"

Now present me with the evidence that his reason for doing this was because of Rachel, and not the Joker killings.

 

[bbasher]

I'm not trying to argue and change anyone's minds about what their favorite is, just answering why I prefer Affleck over Bale's. No need to try and convince me otherwise, my mind's made up thanks to what I saw in BvS.

 

[titansupes]

Bruce made Rachel his reason for not wanting to be Batman. Through out TDK specifically, everything revolved around her. He clearly searched for a reason to quit. Being Batman became more of a job than a desire. Bruce asked her point blank if she would be with him if he stopped being Batman. He was going to give up everything he built for her. Not my Batman.

You're leaving out a vital fact-- At that point, he honestly believed Harvey would do more good for Gotham than he ever could.

It's made very clear-- from the first act of BB-- that he doesn't plan on being Batman indefinitely. He was still and always thinking about the city's best interests.