Ben Affleck or Christian Bale?

Who was the Better Batman?

  • Ben Affleck

  • Christian Bale


Results are only viewable after voting.
The difference is BaleBat's intentions. People died when he was saving people. He didn't want to be an executioner, but there was some collateral damage. Batfleck straight up really doesn't give a ****. You know he takes joy in it.

It's the take they went with, so either you like that or not. But it's the "broken, f***ed up" version of the character as Affleck said.

Exactly.

And I wouldn't have any problem with a Batman that is the "broken, ****ed up" version, but I think it's a mistake to start a franchise with him that way, especially considering that is more or less the Batman we just saw on TDKR.
 
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Give it time. I thought Afflect was absolutely wonderful in the role, but the true test will come from seeing him in solo films where the character is more fleshed out and better written.
 
Exactly.

And I wouldn't have any problem with a Batman that is the "broken, ****ed up" version, but I think it's a mistake to start a franchise with him that way, especially considering that is more or less the Batman we just say on TDKR.

That is t the version we saw in TDKR. We saw a defeated Batman who gave up. Big difference.
 
Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Snyder was a lot more blatant about the manslaughter, but it baffles me how to this day people still act like Nolan's Batman was a paradigm of human care.

Yeah, he blew up an entire room full of people. Not to mention how he literally ran roughshed over the police in that chase. Bale's Batman proved he could be just as callous if he felt it necessary.
 
Yeah, he blew up an entire room full of people. Not to mention how he literally ran roughshed over the police in that chase. Bale's Batman proved he could be just as callous if he felt it necessary.

He didn't blow up a room full of people. He never tried to kill anyone there. They all had ample chance to haul ass and escape. It wasn't an inescapable death trap, otherwise he'd have been dooming himself, too. He created a distraction to scare them off. He saved the only person who was incapable of saving himself - Ducard/Ra's. All the others chose to stay and try and fight him in spite of the impending danger. Sealed their own fate.

He didn't kill anyone in the Police chase, but more importantly the movie made a point to paint his reckless behavior in that chase as bad. They had Alfred chew him out over it afterward, even though he had been rushing back to the cave because Rachel was dying.

Which brings up something I didn't like about Irons' Alfred. He never shows any disdain for Affeck's murderous habits. Alfred would never support Bruce if he was killing criminals needlessly and brutally. Neither would Gordon. He'd be leading a man hunt to take Batman down. Which is probably why it was good this movie had no Gordon. Bad enough Alfred was there saying nothing.
 
The difference is BaleBat's intentions. People died when he was saving people. He didn't want to be an executioner, but there was some collateral damage.
Can you name a kill in the film that doesn't involve a means of leading Batman to save people?

Batfleck straight up really doesn't give a ****. You know he takes joy in it.
No, I think he's stopped taking extra precaution to preserve criminal life. This ties completely to the whole "criminals are like weeds" discussion he had with Alfred. He's not going to suit up specifically to wipe them out, but hey, "collateral damage" and all that.

As far as I can recall, every incidental death in this film involves high-octane action and stakes. The one time Batman is alone with a thug, he handcuffs him for the police. Why do you think that is?

I think the "broken, ****ed up" part wasn't communicated as well as it could have been. It seems like Snyder communicated something to Affleck, but on-paper didn't seem to suggest that.
Alfred drops the front page headline of a branded criminal right in front of Bruce and asks, "new rules?". They then have a discussion about how it wasn't always this way. Alfred specifically references Superman's arrival as reducing the impact of man and how it can lead to a bitter, darker path. Not sure how much more spoonfed it can get.
 
Alfred drops the front page headline of a branded criminal right in front of Bruce and asks, "new rules?". They then have a discussion about how it wasn't always this way. Alfred specifically references Superman's arrival as reducing the impact of man and how it can lead to a bitter, darker path. Not sure how much more spoonfed it can get.

Saying something =! communicated well. All Alfred says amounts to a conversation about the fact that something changed, not the "why" behind the change. Considering that the movie wants you to accept this Batman, it's a fatal mistake to show that Batman has seemingly changed without showing the reasoning behind his change.

Most of us can extrapolate that Robin's death has something to do with it, but as long as its never fully stated or shown, it's only a theory.
 
Saying something =! communicated well. All Alfred says amounts to a conversation about the fact that something changed, not the "why" behind the change. Considering that the movie wants you to accept this Batman, it's a fatal mistake to show that Batman has seemingly changed without showing the reasoning behind his change.

Most of us can extrapolate that Robin's death has something to do with it, but as long as its never fully stated or shown, it's only a theory.
I would argue that extrapolation is misdirected. Robin's suit provides context to Batman's long history and loss. I don't think it has anything to do with him starting to care less about incidental murder. There's zero reference to Robin apart from the one shot. If it were recent, it would only make sense either of them would give it recognition. This leads me to believe the death was years back, and thus, has no bearing on his current actions now.

Again this goes back to the newspaper. Alfred questioning him indicates something has changed in Batman's follow-through. The newscast later on states that is the 2nd time Batman has done it. By all measures, branding is severely less of a punishment than murder. It's safe to say if Alfred starts questioning about branding, then manslaughter is still out of the equation. There's a blatant foreshadowing when Alfred says, "the feeling of powerlessness turns good men cruel". There's emphasis on that last part and clear disdain as he walks away.

The pier chase scene is our first glance at the kills. We know Bruce is after the Kryptonite. We know Bruce considers Superman a world-level threat and absolutely means to end him. Thus, that chase is for all intents and purposes a world-saving mission for Bruce. Enough cause for justifying some collateral death? In his head, I'd say so.

This is all set-up for Superman to shift Batman one way, and then shift him back (by the end). What are Bruce's last words? "There are still good men left" (callback to the newspaper Alfred scene). What is Batman's last action? Not branding Lex Luthor.

Moving forward, I've great confidence Batman will be the modern one we know. No-kills is potentially back on the table.

With that logic you can justify anything this Batman does :funny:
That logic you refer to is exactly the one used to defend Nolan's Batman. Why is this laughable now? And do you genuinely consider it a "reach" to ask that question as a means of addressing the issue?
 
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Bale definitely didn't have better action scenes than Affleck.

That warehouse scene > every fight Bale's Batman ever had

Just my own $0.02, though.

Bale had infinitely better chase scenes. Nothing about the Batmobile or Batwing scenes in BvS match any of the scenes with the Tumbler, Bat-Pod, or the Bat in the trilogy.

I will go one further as well, while the suit Affleck has is better and made for cooler stunts, there was no fight with as much emotional punch (pardon the pun) as when Bane clobbers Batman at the end of The Dark Knight Rises. Actually, I would also add the scene where Batman saves the hostages at the end of The Dark Knight to that comparison.
 
lol yeah, when people say action they have to specify - is it hand to hand combat/fight scenes or chase scenes.
 
Bale had infinitely better chase scenes. Nothing about the Batmobile or Batwing scenes in BvS match any of the scenes with the Tumbler, Bat-Pod, or the Bat in the trilogy.

I will go one further as well, while the suit Affleck has is better and made for cooler stunts, there was no fight with as much emotional punch (pardon the pun) as when Bane clobbers Batman at the end of The Dark Knight Rises. Actually, I would also add the scene where Batman saves the hostages at the end of The Dark Knight to that comparison.

That scene is so damn underrated. It is the most clinical and efficient Batman has fought still on screen.
 
That logic you refer to is exactly the one used to defend Nolan's Batman. Why is this laughable now? And do you genuinely consider it a "reach" to ask that question as a means of addressing the issue?

Fine, let's play your game.

Please explain how Batman killing multiple men by shooting them up or blowing up their vehicles and running them over is killing to save people. If I recall correctly, no lives were in danger; he was in the act of stealing something.

Same deal when he breaks into Lexcorp and we see the damage he causes and are explicitly shown people on stretchers receiving CPR. The only lives in danger during his breaking and entering were the ones he himself put in danger.

The only possibly justifiable kill is the flamethrower guy, and even that is a bastardization of the same scene in TDKR, where Batman saves the baby without killing the mutant.

You're missing the forest for the trees. It's not even about the deaths caused, it's about the characterization of it. The struggle, the guilt, the remorse, the sacrifice. Batfleck showed none of that. It was not even a point with him, whereas it's a theme for Bale that has a major emphasis in every single movie.
 
Totally agreed on the vehicular stuff, but that's more of a Nolan/Snyder thing as opposed to Bale/Affleck to be fair.
 
Bale definitely didn't have better action scenes than Affleck.

That warehouse scene > every fight Bale's Batman ever had

Just my own $0.02, though.

Oh, he did, and it's not close. I'm not sure whether to blame Affleck or his stunt men, but Bats didn't have the speed or dexterity of a world class fighter until that warehouse scene. If Batman is going to have more hand-to-hand scenes in the JL flicks, the filmmakers need to improve on the structure of the fights.
 
Totally agreed on the vehicular stuff, but that's more of a Nolan/Snyder thing as opposed to Bale/Affleck to be fair.

Doesn't the same go for the Batsuit, fight choreography, and general aesthetic that people are praising Batfleck for?
 
Oh, he did, and it's not close. I'm not sure whether to blame Affleck or his stunt men, but Bats didn't have the speed or dexterity of a world class fighter until that warehouse scene. If Batman is going to have more hand-to-hand scenes in the JL flicks, the filmmakers need to improve on the structure of the fights.

The warehouse fight scene can't be touched; it's the Arkham games combat come to life and everything Batman should be.

But the other big fight scene, in the Knightmare, actually seemed really slow and choreographed. Not saying it wasn't done well, but it just seemed like a better version of the TDKT fights, whereas the warehouse scene is on a whole different level.

The actual Batman vs Superman fight was lame.
 
Fine, let's play your game.

Please explain how Batman killing multiple men by shooting them up or blowing up their vehicles and running them over is killing to save people. If I recall correctly, no lives were in danger; he was in the act of stealing something.
I've dealt with this in the rest of my previous post.

Same deal when he breaks into Lexcorp and we see the damage he causes and are explicitly shown people on stretchers receiving CPR. The only lives in danger during his breaking and entering were the ones he himself put in danger.
Same deal per above; he's trying to save the world from Superman. He's not one a one-man crusade against crime anymore. He's operating on a world-level.

You're missing the forest for the trees. It's not even about the deaths caused, it's about the characterization of it.
If this is a personal dislike, so be it. I don't care to challenge or question someone's preference in it.

If we're solely addressing how the characterization is utilized in context with the story, that's a different thing. Again my previous post address it more thoroughly, so feel free to respond to those points.
 
I've dealt with this in the rest of my previous post.


Same deal per above; he's trying to save the world from Superman. He's not one a one-man crusade against crime anymore. He's operating on a world-level.


If this is a personal dislike, so be it. I don't care to challenge or question someone's preference in it.

If we're solely addressing how the characterization is utilized in context with the story, that's a different thing. Again my previous post address it more thoroughly, so feel free to respond to those points.

Sorry, that's just too big of a leap of logic for me to accept. That Batman is suddenly okay with killing as long as it serves the mission of killing Superman. Because there's a 1% chance he's bad :whatever: It would mean he's actively causing loss of life in a dumb mission he would later drop after hearing Superman say one word.

And even if it is true, it's just another reason to dislike this Batman. If TDK Batman dropped his code that easily, he would have snapped the Joker's neck in the interrogation scene. And he'd have a way, way more justifiable reason to compared to Batfleck's mission to murder Superman.
 
Sorry, that's just too big of a leap of logic for me to accept. That Batman is suddenly okay with killing as long as it serves the mission of killing Superman. Because there's a 1% chance he's bad :whatever:
Welcome to Batman. I say this as a devout fan, there are plenty of things in the canon where I vehemently disagree with Bruce's internal logic. Some of his positions I'm outright on the opposite of.

If that's what it's going to boil down to, then I've nothing more to say. Again I'm not here to question your taste. So feel free to leave at this point.

It would mean he's actively causing loss of life in a dumb mission he would later drop after hearing Superman say one word.
Not a fan of some people's brazen dismissal of this. Comic book Batman damn near gets an allergic reaction at the sight of using or holding a gun. We're throwing a fit because Batman was triggered with a callback to the very thing which created him? That's insane to me.

And even if it is true, it's just another reason to dislike this Batman. If TDK Batman dropped his code that easily, he would have snapped the Joker's neck in the interrogation scene. And he'd have a way, way more justifiable reason to compared to Batfleck's mission to murder Superman.
TDKR Batman dropped his code when Gotham is about to be blown up. You'd begrudge Batfleck taking the preemptive when the entire world is at stake?
 
TDKR Batman dropped his code when Gotham is about to be blown up. You'd begrudge Batfleck taking the preemptive when the entire world is at stake?

Yea, we'll agree to disagree but I just can't resist this one.

TDKR had a nuclear bomb about to go off in minutes. In BVS "the entire world" was only at stake in Batfleck's head.
 
After BvS I've been rewatching a lot of past DC works ranging from the Timmverse to the Nolan films to the direct to DVD adaptations of stuff like TDKR and what really stood out to me about the Nolan films is how adept Nolan was balancing tone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3fZoSJpg0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGisF2GgKHM

Even in this chase scene from TDK, one of the most memorable moments of the entire trilogy, there's many moments where Nolan keeps things brisk by adding a little visual humor as Batman passes through the city in order to intercept the Joker. Not only is it a great technical showcase of stunt and miniature work but it's one where we really see how versatile Nolan was.

I actually rather liked Affleck's chase, but upon further retrospection, it was rather tedious. I still enjoy it, but Nolan has better chases in that regard.


That being said, I would love to see more Affleck movies. Then we can probably judge a bit better with regards to comparing him and Bale.
 
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Yea, we'll agree to disagree but I just can't resist this one.

TDKR had a nuclear bomb about to go off in minutes. In BVS "the entire world" was only at stake in Batfleck's head.
Take out the Wayne Tower incident and the 20-year career, I might be more in line with you. Those two tangible elements are crucial to shaping his paranoia and fear, so I took it as Snyder's way of taking the "always prepared for anything" game plan to the next level. As far as I see it, his internal logic is sound according to his experiences and mindset. That's as much as I can ask for as a viewer.
 

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