Bernie's Comic

[Manic]

Quick refresher for those who last read the book years ago:
Throughout the book, we're treated to panels from a comic book being read by some kid at a newspaper stand. The kid's name was Bernie, which also turned out to be the name of the man who owned the newspaper stand (or rather, his name was Bernard).

Just before the riot breaks out in the 11th chapter, old man Bernard asked Bernie why he always came to his newspaper stand and read the same comic book over and over, day after day. Bernie said the comic doesn't make any sense, so he has to keep reading it.

I feel like Bernie. No matter how many times I go over the comic-within-a-comic, I don't understand what the point was. Sure, I get the plot of it. Man gets attacked by pirates, assumes the pirates are on his way to his home town, struggles to get there, assumes the pirates have already taken over the village, and accidentally kills his own wife in the darkness of night. He then runs back to the beach where he finds the pirate ship just off shore, swims out to it, and climbs aboard. Um... the end.

I don't think I get it. Why was this included in the graphic novel? What purpose did it serve? I want to say it was something like "he raced home to save his world, but his world didn't need saving," but that still doesn't quite explain his climbing aboard the ship in the end. Also, that goes against Ozymandias' whole plan to save the world that really did need saving, so it's not some sort of story-based parallel that I can see. So... what am I not getting?

 

[Silk Spectre]

Myself I have picked up a lot of foreshadowing in it. I have heard theories that it is used to lighten the mood, and I have also heard it is a parallel for Veidt.

 

[Lebeau]

Yeah I was a bit lost by it as well...found it horribly boring, irrelevant and an irritating distraction from the story that was being told. I've only read Watchmen once, so might have to go back over it and look harder and try not to skim as much...but for me, it really takes away from the novel. Watchmen is one of my favourite reads, but Bernie's comic goes a long way in shoving it down my list of favourites.

 

[Spidey-Sean]

Quick refresher for those who last read the book years ago:
Throughout the book, we're treated to panels from a comic book being read by some kid at a newspaper stand. The kid's name was Bernie, which also turned out to be the name of the man who owned the newspaper stand (or rather, his name was Bernard).

Just before the riot breaks out in the 11th chapter, old man Bernard asked Bernie why he always came to his newspaper stand and read the same comic book over and over, day after day. Bernie said the comic doesn't make any sense, so he has to keep reading it.

I feel like Bernie. No matter how many times I go over the comic-within-a-comic, I don't understand what the point was. Sure, I get the plot of it. Man gets attacked by pirates, assumes the pirates are on his way to his home town, struggles to get there, assumes the pirates have already taken over the village, and accidentally kills his own wife in the darkness of night. He then runs back to the beach where he finds the pirate ship just off shore, swims out to it, and climbs aboard. Um... the end.

I don't think I get it. Why was this included in the graphic novel? What purpose did it serve? I want to say it was something like "he raced home to save his world, but his world didn't need saving," but that still doesn't quite explain his climbing aboard the ship in the end. Also, that goes against Ozymandias' whole plan to save the world that really did need saving, so it's not some sort of story-based parallel that I can see. So... what am I not getting?

It's funny that you brought up the similarity to Bernie, as I think you are acting out a direct reflection of his character. His very struggle with his own comic was likely Moore's idea of what some comic readers would grapple with in his writing, as well as the Black Freighter. As metafiction, the Black Freighter is not irrelevant to the story, and does in fact reflect ultimately Veidt's storyline (imagine the marooned man as Veidt and his motivations for his actions as reflecting Veidt's motivations as well). It also reflects the panels on the page that it appears in, so other characters plights and smaller details can be reflected in the chapters the Black Freighter appears in as well.

Think of it as the story of Watchmen from a different perspective, or in a different reality, but both making a very similar argument about an underlying similar situation. You can gain a lot of insight about the characters in Watchmen by reading the Black Freighter. If you google analyses of Watchmen I'm sure you'll come across more specific answers, but here's the Wikipedia description for starters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen#Tales_of_the_Black_Freighter

 

[Manic]

I tried thinking of the main character from the Black Freighter as Veidt, but it doesn't sit right with me. At the end of the Black Freighter, the main character's efforts were all in vain. His home was never in danger. He jumped to a conclusion wherein he himself caused more harm than his own enemies. His attempt to save his family ended with him hurting his own family. He was courageous, but overall a fool.

Veidt, I found, was right to find a way to protect the world from itself. The US' possession of a Person of Mass Destruction put the world in an unbalanced state, and I think a world with Dr. Manhattan would never find a peaceful end to the Cold War. Veidt saw that the only way to unite the world would be to unite it against a common enemy.

Veidt and the man from the Black Freighter comic used entirely different tactics to fight entirely different types of enemies. The only thing they had in common was their shared willingness to use the dead to achieve their goals.

The Black Freighter paralleled individual moments related to different characters throughout the book, but I never saw the point in it, other than sometimes using it to narrate the plot. However, I can't connect the main character of the Black Freighter to one of the other characters. His actions sometimes parallel several characters (sometimes he reminds me of Rorschach or Dr. Manhattan, ect.), and sometimes sound like an expansion of Bernard's (the newstand owner) rants.

It strikes me as a very linear story where some moments manage to coincide with brief moments from the overall Watchmen plot. I don't understand what purpose it serves to the overall story. It sure as hell doesn't help me understand anything.

And the thing is, if I was just reading The Black Freighter (the actual comic), I could sit here and think about all the stuff running through its main character's head, and what the story means to me (ie, back to my earlier comment about attempting to save a world that doesn't need saving). But when thrown into the middle of Watchmen, I just don't see why it's there.

I'm Bernie. I read it over and over, and I just don't get it.

 

[bananafish]

I think that even if "Marooned" is not a perfect allegory for Veidt's story, it still works in that both Veidt and the castaway from The Black Freighter have become what they fear the most. Or that, simply, in the end, it just means that Veidt was not in the right and the peace is temporary. And some other minor parallels I liked were that both the castaway and Veidt didn't kill everyone they looked to save, "only" a fraction, and that the castaway dressed in the riding man's clothes, which in retrospect, I kind of see as Veidt making himself out to be the ubermensch.

I love metafiction, and Tales of the Black Freighter was one of my favorite parts of Watchmen, because it has merit as a story on its own, served as an interesting narrative device in the short term, and I think of it as an allegory for Veidt's path.

 

[S.D. Plissken]

I tried thinking of the main character from the Black Freighter as Veidt, but it doesn't sit right with me. At the end of the Black Freighter, the main character's efforts were all in vain. His home was never in danger. He jumped to a conclusion wherein he himself caused more harm than his own enemies. His attempt to save his family ended with him hurting his own family. He was courageous, but overall a fool.

Veidt, I found, was right to find a way to protect the world from itself. The US' possession of a Person of Mass Destruction put the world in an unbalanced state, and I think a world with Dr. Manhattan would never find a peaceful end to the Cold War. Veidt saw that the only way to unite the world would be to unite it against a common enemy.

Veidt and the man from the Black Freighter comic used entirely different tactics to fight entirely different types of enemies. The only thing they had in common was their shared willingness to use the dead to achieve their goals.

The Black Freighter paralleled individual moments related to different characters throughout the book, but I never saw the point in it, other than sometimes using it to narrate the plot. However, I can't connect the main character of the Black Freighter to one of the other characters. His actions sometimes parallel several characters (sometimes he reminds me of Rorschach or Dr. Manhattan, ect.), and sometimes sound like an expansion of Bernard's (the newstand owner) rants.

It strikes me as a very linear story where some moments manage to coincide with brief moments from the overall Watchmen plot. I don't understand what purpose it serves to the overall story. It sure as hell doesn't help me understand anything.

And the thing is, if I was just reading The Black Freighter (the actual comic), I could sit here and think about all the stuff running through its main character's head, and what the story means to me (ie, back to my earlier comment about attempting to save a world that doesn't need saving). But when thrown into the middle of Watchmen, I just don't see why it's there.

I'm Bernie. I read it over and over, and I just don't get it.

To your previous post, and to this one, the Tales comic is basically a story that strikes down the notion of the ends justifying the means.

Yes, this does relate to Veidt, in that his plan to murder a third of NY's population to save the world is to him justified, but in the end, he has given up his humanity and his soul by murdering hundreds of human beings including people very close to him. In his mind he might be a savior, but to any reasonable person--he is a despicable murderer, narcissist and psychopath. Veidt is even unsure of his act--there is an insecurity there, as he questions John "did I do the right thing--in the end". Of course John replies "In the end? Nothing ends Adrian, nothing ever ends."

John is the highest power that Adrian can contact. He is Adrian's stand-in for god at the ending moment. And he doesn't validate Adrian, he leave him unsure, and stuck with the terrible aftermath of his deeds. The last time we see him, Adrian looks back at where John disappeared and he looks crushed. He did not get the answer he wanted, and of course--this is not the end.

The peace at the end of the book will not last--this is part of the point. The peace and the unity will eventually fall apart--Adrian has not saved mankind, he's only postponed the fighting.

I think the Mariner says "I was a horror: Amongst horrors, must I dwell"

It breaks down like this: In the honorable quest to return home to save his family, the mariner decended into madness--he became worse than what he was fighting against. He gave up his soul in his quest for what he believed what virtue or goodness or heroism.

It's like the Nietzsche quote from the book "battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster."

When Rorschach kills the dogs and burns Gerald Grice alive instead of turning him over to the police--he crosses over this threshold and is forever changed. He stops being a crimefighter and become a dangerous psychopath. His mind snaps. The comedian is the one who clues us in on this in an early section of the book:

"Ever since he handled the kidnapping he's been nuts"

I would even argue that his speech patterns and voice changes after this incident. If you notice in the crimebusters meeting, his word bubble is normal--and he has his mask on. His sentence structure is also different there--it's normal--not fragmented.

In fact if you want solid evidence, you could say that the TBF story most refers to him because of his coverart (6 covers featuring a character with a unique montage behind) on the French Watchmen which features a pirate flag with seagulls behind it.

Anyway, those are some thoughts on the comic. Hope this helps.

 

[Gilpesh]

Maybe the castaway is a metaphor for superheroes in general?

 

[AlteredEgo]

I tried thinking of the main character from the Black Freighter as Veidt, but it doesn't sit right with me. At the end of the Black Freighter, the main character's efforts were all in vain. His home was never in danger. He jumped to a conclusion wherein he himself caused more harm than his own enemies. His attempt to save his family ended with him hurting his own family. He was courageous, but overall a fool.

i think you just answered your own question for me. the way i saw it was that in the end Veidt's efforts were all in vein, his solution only temporary, Dr. Manhattan says something about how it's never really over when Veidt asks him if it truly is over. He did what he believed he had to, but he may have jumped the gun, and the way that he did it, ultimately hurt everyone around him permanently. Leaving the NY'ers dead and the 'heroes' to live with this secret the rest of their lives. Like you said, his attempt to save the world ends with him doing more damage then he knows and makes him "board the same ship" as his enemies. just because he had good intentions doesnt make what he did right. some of the worst things in the world have been done under good intent.

 

[AlteredEgo]

also i kinda thought that Bernie never understood the comic because of it's unhappy ending. it follows a guy who tries to do whats right, protect what he loves at any cost, and in the end he loses. kind of like the GN itself.

 

[SuperSarah!]

I find myself having no patience for reading the panels from what Bernie's reading . I'm to eager to know what's going on in the actual story to search for some ultimate meaning behind the comic book he's reading. But I see how some find it to be foreshadowing...other then that it kind of annoys me.