best rendition of the symbiote sage

[IamProdigy]

So glad no one chose Spider-Man 3...haha.

 

[November Rain]

Cool bits about each one

616: Original, very subtle story, venom was fresh and freaky with a decent couple of initial arcs

Tas: Reinvented venom very well, liked how symbiote played with parker from the outset, silent symbiote voice/influence, conners laboratory examination, peter/flash encounter, having brock involuntarily take the symbiote. kept the comic suits, intimidation of eddie

Spectacular: morphing costume is cool, symbiote taking spidey out while sleeping, collects nice snippets from others

ultimate: cancer suit based on father's work was genius, fingertip webbing, taking bullets and shocks, parker going crazy over burglary, eddie going crazy over theft of work, venom design, family interaction and legacy

spiderman 3: badass peter parker, really hardcore out for himself complete ass, villain killing girlfriend stalking and slapping and blowing off harry's face. He owned the bugle, he owned his landlord, he owned everyroom he walked into, This is what movie peter parker would have ended up like IF uncle ben hadn't had died which ultimately what i feel black spidey should be (slightl more arrogance for being a chump for as long as he was though).


I still say there's room for a THE BEST SYMBIOTE SAGA. I don't think I've viewed one that can't be beaten.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Its because he met the writer at a comic convention and now feels the need to defend the show like his best friend made the whole thing...

Buubub...Premise!

No, I actually do know him. I live and work in Hollywood, and I have lunch with him about once a month. I've been down to that studio several times.

And yes, I do have photographic proof. And not from a convention, I'm talking about in his studio office.

 

[spider-neil]

I voted SSM but when you think about it the comics (616) really should get the nod

fisrt off you get the black costume and its cool as heck, it is then revealed as a symbiote that is actually alive by reed richards who uses a sonic gun to remove the costume, the costume then broods in a glass tube for a few issues, then escapes it then forcably tries to bond which peter with peter famously using the church bells to get it off.

they then introduce the ooze bonding with brock with eddie becoming venom. so you have a saga which spans years. this is what annoyed me about SM3 it is a long storyline and they tried to shoe horn it in with TWO other villians and to add insult to injury they are going to do a back to movie with SM4 and SM5 you have to laugh I'm struggling to think of a storyoutside the symbiote saga that takes two movies to tell.

anyway my choice goes like this

1. SSM

2. TAS

3. 616

4. ultimate





5. SM3

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand. I'd say this has been, maybe not the best, but my favorite version.

Unfortunately, the symbiote saga is one that I've never been much of a fan of. I preferred this series' other arcs more.

 

[Venomfan]

for me it's
1.TAS - that is one thing that show did to perfection, other than this one wierd animation screw up in it

then i don't really know, all the other ones have big flaws in them. I guess the comics would be number 2, so then

2. 616

3. i guess its a tie between the movie and SSM, but i give the edge to SSM for not making Peter go dancing down the street and emo. They really dropped the ball on Brock i feel, because they totally rushed into his hatred. I mean if you watched episodes 1-10 but missed 11, and then saw episode 12, you'd be like "why does Brock hate Peter so much now? what did i miss in episode 11?" and the answer is "some totally random freakout that seemed totally out of character"

4. Spider-man 3 - Emo dancing Peter and a Brock with less muscle than Peter makes it lose points, as well as totally rushing Venom.

6. Ultimate - just too different, great looking art though

 

[Webhead2006]

I am not going to rate the saga for SSM untill after this saturday episode airs so we see how venom is treated and all that. But i do have this to say. Only TAS and SM3 went with the evil route for the symboite were as the comics and SSM went different were the symboite was really evil parsay it was just influencing his actions and controling his body. As we know with this show greg has stated many many times they are more based on the classic 616 stuff of the comics but if things from the movies, tas, ultimate can work towards their story they will use it and borrow the ideas and mix things together.

 

[DACrowe]

I'll wait to see the final act to decide, but right now I know this one beats comics and SM3, now all that is left is to see if it can top TAS, then.

 

[DACrowe]

double post.

Here is how I rank 'em currently:

1. TAS
2. SM3 (I just ignore the street dancing )
3. 616
4. Ultimate

I'm gonna' just say SSM has already topped SM3, 616 and Ultimate. That leaves TAS, but I'll reserve judgement.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Who is this Sage? Another simbiote? Yeesh.

 

[The Joker]

1. SSM
2. TAS
3. Ultimate
4. 616
5. SM-3

 

[Hurm...]

1. SSM
2. TAS
3. Ultimate
4. 616
5. SM-3

Same for me.

 

[hpwiz89]

Poor SM3 isn't gettimg any love.

 

[FNSpidey]

I honestly believe SM3 had the best symbiote saga (although calling it a saga is a stretch and I believe this is most people's problem with it).

For one, Brock's motivations are the best depicted anywhere (with TAS very close indeed). We see early on he's very egotistical, unethical and really air-headed. And he goes on to lose his job, his reputation and the girl he supposedly "intends to marry", ALL by Peter's DIRECT involvement. Praying to God to kill Peter reaffirms all's not well with this guy, not many people would go that far. So it comes as no surprise that with a little nudge from the symbiote he gets totally maniacal.

Second, the symbiote really does make Peter himself quite bad, selfish and immoral. Here, dark Pete does not throw empty threats and doesn't simply yell at people. We see Peter taking care of all of his problems. He really puts his landlord, JJ, Eddie, Harry, Sandman AND MJ in their respective places. He even goes as far as to try (and basically succeed) and kill Sandman, throw a bomb at his best friend's face and humiliate and back-slap the only woman he ever loved. And the best part is that we can see what led to these actions, it's not that the symbiote simply made him evil. He had reasons to act like this even before the symbiote, which just takes care of any restraints he might have had otherwise.

Third, the central theme of the film about revenge seems the perfect frame for the symbiote story. Peter sees that he himself can get carried away with revenge and maybe go too far. And what is Venom if not the ultimate representation of a revenge-driven guy that just can't let go? Sandman provides Peter's focus for revenge and Harry is somewhere in the middle, going a little too far, but finally being able to redeem himself. It all fits nicely (unlike other random villains in other versions of the story) and gives the story a much deeper meaning than "We are Venom and we are badass"!

I even enjoyed the evolution of looks. Blue and red suit, symbiote covering the suit, adopting all the main characteristics with just a few alterations, and finally Venom's "twisted Spidey" look. It has a logical flow to it and leads to the best Venom look to date. Since Venom is essentially a twisted version of Spider-man, having his appearance clearly reflect that is a stroke of genius. Plus it's still quite faithful to his original look. Great production design.

TAS version is a very close second. It just loses points for making Peter suddenly and stereotypically evil and its overall kiddy and simplistic approach. The random involvement of a vague "prometheum X" and Rhino and Shocker doesn't help either.

SSM version I generally like for its more mature approach and dialogue, but they really dropped the ball with the maybe bad Peter (I know the symbiote affected him, but it was so subtle it didn't really have a point) and the very weak characterization for Brock, who in the end lost nothing at all, but ruined his future by randomly stealing the symbiote for himself.

The comics version didn't have the "behavior adjustment" angle, but I really liked the creepy feeling of a seemingly not alive organism trying to secretly take control. Most other versions (especially SSM) lost this feeling by outright stating the symbiote is alive. Brock's characterization here is also weak and random. Keeping in mind though that this saga was invented as they went and not planned from the beginning, it turned out pretty well.

I think Spider-man Unlimited speaks for itself.

I think that's all. You can start getting aggressive now...

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I absolutely LOVE the comics version, TAS version, the S-M3 version, and the Spectacular Spider-Man version. However, I think the most realsitic one would have to be The Spectacular Spider-Mans' symbiote story. So here's how I'd rate them.

1.SSM
2.TAS
3.Spider-Man 3
4.616
5.Ultimate version

Now, like I said, I LOVE the 616 Symbiote story alot. The order I put them in is how I see them as most realistic, but my favorites aren't in that order. My favorite Symbiote storyline is the comics version, with SSM, S-M3, and TAS versions following very close behind.

 

[Captain Planet!]

Should be multiple choice.

 

[TheAQU4M4N]

I absolutely LOVE the comics version, TAS version, the S-M3 version, and the Spectacular Spider-Man version. However, I think the most realsitic one would have to be The Spectacular Spider-Mans' symbiote story. So here's how I'd rate them.

1.SSM
2.TAS
3.Spider-Man 3
4.616
5.Ultimate version

Now, like I said, I LOVE the 616 Symbiote story alot. The order I put them in is how I see them as most realistic, but my favorites aren't in that order. My favorite Symbiote storyline is the comics version, with SSM, S-M3, and TAS versions following very close behind.

i like this order Hero..t:

 

[Syncos]

This is how I'd rank symbiote sagas up to this point. unless Nature vs Nurture has something that completely changes my mind, which i don't see happening.

1.TAS
2.SSM
3.616
4.Spider-Man 3
5.Ultimate version

TAS: I loved the handling of Brock. He was shifty even in Night of the Lizard. Spidey really screwed him over. even though it was all his fault. Once he came back, I loved him teaming up with Spidey, as the Symbiote started to take over in their bond. Some would probably say that i'm looking at tas through nostalgic eyes. but since I re watched it a few months ago, that's not the case.

SSM: I love how the symbiote was handled, and how Peter was affected. I do however think that how Brock was handled was poorly done. It's one thing to take a already morally gray character and turn them into a villain. It's another thing to take a good person, and shift them into a bad dude. It takes more building than SSM had time to do.

616: Gets points for being the originator. Not the strongest telling, but still leaps and bounds above some... others.

Spider-Man 3: God, what a pile of rubbish. It's one miracle freak encounter for a dude to get spider powers from a genetically enhanced spider. But for that same person to have a meteor with a power enhancing symbiote attached to it, land right by where he's having a date. That's ridiculous. I wasn't a big fan of the designs of either venom or the suit. I feel that topher grace was poorly cast. And I felt that how the Symbiote altered Peter's actions was just poorly displayed. Maybe it was an issue where Tobey couldn't pull it off properly. I don't know. It just failed, in my opinion.

Ultimate: One of my biggest problems with ultimate Spider-Man is how they butchered the Symbiotes. It's one thing to reimage a story. It's another thing to reinvent the wheel. Maybe had it turned out better, I wouldn't be saying that. But It was just painful, to me. This pain is eased by how much I love Bagley's art.

 

[WolfCypher]

Ummm...the Alien Costume saga hasn't finished yet in SSM. Anywho, TAS wins hands down. This show's interpretation of Eddie Brock is great, but I prefer the original comics interpretation with more details added to it (in other words, TAS). Also, while SSM has some great episodes (Group Therapy) to go along with SSM's Venom arc, it didn't thrill me nearly as much as TAS did and still does. This is the only time TAS > SSM.

 

[Webhead2006]

AS i said in the other post i have here is i am waiting to the next episode to air so i can judge the arch fully before i say anything more on the arch. Each version has there good parts and their bad parts.

 

[Silver Spider]

1.SM3
2.TAS
4.616
5.Ultimate

Although depending on how Saturday goes, Spectacular Spider-man could be at the top. I think SM3 and TAS both had their strong points, but I put SM3 above it, because of the scene in the Bugle.

 

[Venom 1988]

I like how you say this

Ummm...the Alien Costume saga hasn't finished yet in SSM.

Then this

Anywho, TAS wins hands down.

 

[WolfCypher]

I like how you say this
Then this

Ha ha ha! Inconsistancy...

 

[Rincewind]

I voted for SSM.

The thing with the symbiote saga is that there is no absolutely perfect version of it. Each and every one of the renditions have their weak points, which somewhat downgrade the whole thing at the end. Would that be the horrible symbiote-controlled Peter in SM:TAS, the horrible Venom in SM 3, the Joe Shmoe-Eddie Brock in 616 etc. it doesn't matter.

SSM is imperfect as well. And that I can tell safely, without the need to watch the upcoming finale of the saga, because the errors were already done and for them, the next episode is without merit. The things that SSM messed up with the symbiote saga are only two, IMO.
The first one is that they rushed way too much with the whole thing. And no, I'm not saying that they should've waited until Season 2 or 3 to introduce the symbiote, but they should've given much more time to the arc. I mean, Peter only wore the black suit for only three episodes and that wasn't enough. The rejection of the alien was very elaborate and I liked it very much (even with the too-well-known origin of Spidey inside); however, the impact would've been greater if Peter wore the suit longer (I'm gonna take a leap and even say - the entire Season 2, until the last two or three episodes). That way the symbiote could've been presented as a much more seroius threat as it would've had more than enough time to slowly destroy Peter's life.
The second thing they messed up was Eddie Brock. Unlike the symbiote-controlled Peter, he wasn't so much rushed, as he was too... sudden. Up until Episode 11 he was just pissed off and nothing more. And then, out of the blue he became obssesive soon-to-be-maniac, endangering human lives, while brooding over Peter on his bike. No. Just No. Actually, the time I wish they'd given to the symbiote, could've helped here, too. I think that it would've been better if he dropped for real from college after he was fired from Connors' lab; and, for example, he could've tried to steal the money he needs to try and go back to college or something; and be caught by Spider-Man, who turns him over the police, because by the influence of the symbiote he wouldn't make another compromise for his friend after the thing with Harry. That way it could've even be dragged to the church origin of Venom by the end of Season 2, although I don't mind at all the lab one we got.

Still, despite these two mistakes, I think that SSM did a lot of things very good. For example, albeit the time they gave him was short, the SSM's symbiote-controlled Peter is my favorite one. He was not over-the-top-and-out-of-the-blue monstrous as was the one in SM:TAS and that is a great plus. IMHO, the symbiotes should be able to make monsters only from already nasty people aka. Brock or Cassidy; a good and decent guy as Peter should become a complete *******, arrogant, dangerous and completely capable of ruining his own life, but not some murderous beast. And that was handled very well in SSM.
The other thing I liked was that the alien gathered strength from its host's negative emotions. That explains wonderful why it took over Peter when he learned that Aunt May had a heart attack and why Eddie became Venom in a matter of seconds.
It was really nice touch also how the alien took alone the entire Sinister Six, while Peter was sleeping; that made it look really dangerous, especially since Pete couldn't beat them when he was awake and in control.
The rejection of the symbiote was perfectly done as well (tho not so exellent timely-wise as it would've been better to get it later on, but hey - you can't have it all). It was elaborate and precise, and it provided great character development for Peter.

The only thing left is to see the final (but not the last, hopefully) fight between Spidey and Venom. And I'm sure that SSM won't disappoint me with it.

 

[FNSpidey]

^^ Very well said, Rincewind.

And I love your name. Long time Discworld fan myself.