Bill Cosby is a rapist

[Feenix]

Only thing can do is boycott, though. Unless one victim falls into statue of limitations, nothing can be done criminally. Civil lawsuits are possible.

Education for young women on how to avoid visiting homes of powerful men or avoid taking drinks from people you don't know very well (regardless of status)

How about education for young men on how to treat women?

Telling women they shouldn't visit the homes of powerful men lest they get raped is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Tech]

How about education for young men on how to treat women?

Certainly.

Telling women they shouldn't visit the homes of powerful men lest they get raped is kind of ridiculous.

In this example, its one powerful man and 10, 20, 30, possibly more victims. It's difficult to weed out every power-hungry predator hiding in a crevice....but teaching women to avoid signs of danger and situations where you can be compromised would seem to be more efficient. Cosby's behavior doesn't represent most men, but I can certainly see several star-struck women being placed in compromised situations.

Bill Cosby drugging women is repugnant. However, some of those women must have known there was going to be sex involved if you're visiting him in his hotel room. I suppose some could have been poorly coached by parents. Some of these women had to know they were dating a married a man. Educating people to protect themselves from few predators in the world can't hurt.

 

[Golgo-13]

How about education for young men on how to treat women?

Telling women they shouldn't visit the homes of powerful men lest they get raped is kind of ridiculous.

You can reprogram male society and their treatment of women all you want; it's not going to stop rape because rapists operate outside of what society considers the norm. You think rapists are men who don't know how to treat women? Are men that have no repect for women? You're sadly mistaken. Most rapists can rape a woman and then go home and treat their mother, sister/daughter with the utmost respect. Hell, they would proabably want to kill some other rapist who tried to rape one of their female family members. Rape is not due to a lack of repect for women; it's a power move. It's about control. It's like a purse snatcher who only preys on little old ladies, because he knows they can't fight back. Rape is like an adrenline rush to these monsters. Teaching them to respect women isn't going to do jack.

Bill Cosby drugging women is repugnant. However, some of those women must have known there was going to be sex involved if you're visiting him in his hotel room. I suppose some could have been poorly coached by parents. Some of these women had to know they were dating a married a man. Educating people to protect themselves from few predators in the world can't hurt.

Yes. This. A man invites you to his home/hotel room at all hours of the night, and you don't know sex might be involved? I find that insulting to a woman's intelligence personally. Some might be naive sure, but most women know as the hours, the location are a dead give away. And maybe some might have been receptive, if he went about it in the right way. Some might have been charmed/star struck by him and wouldn't have mind sleeping with a celeb. Some might have thought it was an o.k price to pay to further/start their careers. Where things went south was the fact that he drugged and then did it without their consent.

 

[Feenix]

I was talking more about how our society views rape and rape victims. It's abhorrent.

 

[Tempest]

Ten rape prevention tips:

1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.

2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.

3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.

4. If you are in an elevator and a woman gets in, don’t rape her.

5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not rape her.

6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.

7. Remember, people go to the laundry room to do their laundry. Do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.

8. Use the Buddy System! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.

9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to rape someone, blow the whistle until someone comes to stop you.

10. Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.

Source: http://canyourelate.org/2011/05/24/rape-prevention-tips/

Women - and men - should be allowed to go somewhere, even a hotel room, and not have to fear being raped.

I get so offended by this idea that victims are supposed to be responsible for the actions of a predator.

 

[BattleCat]

Okay.

Either way, being skeptical of the stories of two or three women does not mean the other 27 are invalid. Cosby is a serial rapist and we should spend less time picking apart the women's stories and more about how this man was able to get away with this for so long.

Yeah, I know F Cosby and all of that, but...... I think it's pretty despicable IF any of those women are Indeed lying just to gain something. that's a slap in the face to the real victims. Yeah, yeah I know.... F Cosby and all of that.

 

[Greens]

You can reprogram male society and their treatment of women all you want; it's not going to stop rape because rapists operate outside of what society considers the norm. You think rapists are men who don't know how to treat women? Are men that have no repect for women? You're sadly mistaken. Most rapists can rape a woman and then go home and treat their mother, sister/daughter with the utmost respect. Hell, they would proabably want to kill some other rapist who tried to rape one of their female family members. Rape is not due to a lack of repect for women; it's a power move. It's about control. It's like a purse snatcher who only preys on little old ladies, because he knows they can't fight back. Rape is like an adrenline rush to these monsters. Teaching them to respect women isn't going to do jack.

Exactly. Plus, are we just going to ignore male rape?

 

[Tech]

Source: http://canyourelate.org/2011/05/24/rape-prevention-tips/

Women - and men - should be allowed to go somewhere, even a hotel room, and not have to fear being raped.

I get so offended by this idea that victims are supposed to be responsible for the actions of a predator.

No is saying a victim is responsible for actions of predator, but there are actions potential victim can take to minimize risk. We're all for educating men in general to treat women with respect, but there will always be a small handful men (typically powerful, delusion immoral or very angry, maladjusted, weak self-control) that poses a threat to large number of women. Putting Bill Cosby or a Bryan Singer or Roman Polanski in front of a DVD instruction them "not to rape" isn't likely to change their behavior because they're addicted and convinced they can get away with it or rules don't apply to them. Lot of these men have great deal of power and network to protect them from legal ramifications of what they're doing,...even if its temporary.

It's important to give recommendations for women to take precautions to be safe. Sure, you shouldn't be attacked in a hotel room. However, going into a stranger's hotel room or bedroom creates a power balance that favors the owner of the room. You're in a strange environment by yourself and don't know your way around, if you scream, possible others may not hear you...the attacker may even have an ally trying to subdue you. You have no reason to trust the stranger you just met.

Work-related projects should be done in corporate or public setting. You want to have dinner? Go to a public restaurant. Still want to eat at this new co-worker's place? Bring a friend (preferably a guy, but a group of people who will be accountable for each other). You should do background check to see this isn't first time this individual has invited people over (that other co-workers can vouch for him). Don't go to his bedroom for any reason. You have to assume possibility of sex will arise. That's just common sense.

No one is blaming victim, just empowering them to make choices that maximizes their safety.

 

[Golgo-13]

Exactly. Plus, are we just going to ignore male rape?

Absoluetely not! Male rape is an even bigger probelm imo. Men are less likely to report rape than women are.

 

[Tempest]

Exactly. Plus, are we just going to ignore male rape?

Let me ask you something. If a man was alone with a woman in her hotel room, and she raped him, would you say that he shouldn't have been alone with her?

If a man is wearing a pair of shorts and a tank top, and he is attacked by another man, would you say that if he had dressed differently, then he wouldn't have been attacked?

Do you think guys should use the buddy system to avoid being raped?

If a man accepts a drink from a woman he doesn't know, should he expect that she might rape him?

The issue isn't about whether or not men get raped. They do. And it's just as terrible for them as it is for female victims. The issue that we face as a society is that when a woman is raped, the blame is placed on her.

Here is the list of things said to me by family and friends (keep in mind I was raped by my boyfriend, whom I had been dating for about seven months):

"Well, you were alone with him in his apartment. What did you think would happen?"

"Maybe you should have tried harder to get away."

"What were you wearing? Maybe he thought you wanted sex."

"Was it really, really rape? Maybe you misunderstood what was happening."

"If you'd just given him sex whenever he wanted it, he wouldn't have felt like he had to take it."

After that reaction, I didn't bother going to the police. And I stayed with him another five months, because I somehow thought that what had happened was my fault.

Women victims of rape are told that the rape is somehow their responsibility. They should have done things differently. They should watch what they wear, watch were they walk, make sure they aren't alone with a man, make sure they know self-defense, make sure they use the buddy system, make sure they...

Otherwise, it's implied that not only is the rape their fault, but that they kind of deserved it. Laying the blame at the victims' feet does not serve anyone but the rapists, who feel emboldened and empowered to take what they want, because the victims will bear the brunt of the fault.

If the rapist happens to be a nice guy (or gal) who is powerful, or who has powerful friends, then they know nothing can touch them. Because they know that any victim who steps forward will not be treated as a victim, but as a suspicious person who just wants money or attention. The victim will not be believed. The people will rally not to the victim, but to the perpetrator. They will defend the rapist, and will denigrate the victim.

Why concentrate more on teaching men the value of not raping?

1 in 6 American women have been the victims of attempted or completed sexual assault. 31% of women who are sexually assaulted are injured during the attack.

1 in 33 American men have been the victims of attempted or completed sexual assault. 16% of men who are sexually assaulted are injured during the attack.

(Numbers from the National Institute of Justice)

Those numbers are alarming enough.

For female rape survivors, 98.1% of the time a man was the perpetrator.

For male rape survivors, 93% of the time a man was the perpetrator.

(http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php)

There is a reason why men have to be the focus of the teaching on why respecting another person's being is so important. It's not because women are more important than men. It's because men are more likely to be a rapist - towards all genders.

Stop blaming victims. Stop offering useless suggestions on how people should avoid being raped. Instead, teach your children not to rape. Teach them that it's unacceptable to allow another person to be raped. Teach them about consent, teach them accountability.

It's how we learn that racism is unacceptable. We learn murder is wrong. Why is it so hard to teach that rape is also inexcusable?

 

[Golgo-13]

Teaching is not going to do anything. Murderers and rapist know those offenses are wrong, yet they do it anyway. We are taught from small that hitting, violence, etc is wrong yet some of us as adults do it anyway. It is because those individual are not operating within the same moral boundaries as the rest of society. No amount of teaching people not to do these things is going to make any sort of impactful difference. If that were the case, if it was such a straight forward fix, we would have seen changes already.

Sexual assault by authority figures is as prevalent as it has always been, only now thanks to social media, internet, etc more people have the means in which to voice their concerns and experiences regarding it. Look at how many times we've read about teachers sleeping with their students. People think this is some new phenomenon, but in actually it has always been going on. It's just that now we have the internet, etc and if you notice alot of these teacher are getting caught by way of text messages and cell pics, because now everyone has a phone with the ability to text and take pics of the acts.

Sexual predation is unfortunately not going anywhere. The answer is not teaching that rape is wrong because anyone who has the I.Q of a carrot or higher knows this; the answer is in prevention.

 

[Greens]

The issue that we face as a society is that when a woman is raped, the blame is placed on her.

And when a man is raped, he doesn't report it because he doesn't think he will be taken seriously as a male victim of sexual abuse. After all, why would a man refuse sex?

After that reaction, I didn't bother going to the police. And I stayed with him another five months, because I somehow thought that what had happened was my fault.

Those reactions aren't helpful and I can understand why you did what you did.

Women victims of rape are told that the rape is somehow their responsibility. They should have done things differently. They should watch what they wear, watch were they walk, make sure they aren't alone with a man, make sure they know self-defense, make sure they use the buddy system, make sure they...

Rape isn't the sole responsibility of women, but there's nothing wrong with telling them to exercise caution. Unfortunately, monsters do exist and it's in women's best interest to avoid them. It's like warning a person not to go into a certain neighborhood at night.

Why concentrate more on teaching men the value of not raping?

Men know perfectly well that rape is wrong. That doesn't mean some men won't still do it.

There is a reason why men have to be the focus of the teaching on why respecting another person's being is so important. It's not because women are more important than men. It's because men are more likely to be a rapist - towards all genders.

Instead of teaching men not to rape, how about teaching both genders that hurting each other is wrong? The thing is, that's already being done. Any sane, well-meaning parent instills these values into their children.

 

[Tempest]

And when a man is raped, he doesn't report it because he doesn't think he will be taken seriously as a male victim of sexual abuse. After all, why would a man refuse sex?

I don't believe anyone in this thread has denied that male sexual assault does not happen. I am an advocate for all victim's rights. However, the conversation was not about inappropriate and unhelpful things said to, and about male victims. It was about the unhelpful and inappropriate things being said about the victims of Bill Cosby.

But I agree. Men who are victims of sexual assault need more help and resources than are currently available to them. If you notice, I was very careful to include statistics for both men and women, specifically because I didn't want to imply that only women are victims of sexual assault.

Those reactions aren't helpful and I can understand why you did what you did.

I'm glad you can appreciate that they were not helpful comments. They were harmful. They hurt me. Now apply that logic to what's been said about these women who were victims of Bill Cosby. Many of them were young, inexperienced women or teenagers when they were assaulted.

Rape isn't the sole responsibility of women, but there's nothing wrong with telling them to exercise caution. Unfortunately, monsters do exist and it's in women's best interest to avoid them. It's like warning a person not to go into a certain neighborhood at night.

Unless you are suggesting that women never date, get married, or leave their homes, the suggestions made are not helpful.

Approximately 73% of reported rapes were committed by someone the victim knows. Break it down, 38% of rapes were done by a friend or acquaintance, 28% were committed by an intimate partner, and 7% of rapes were done by relatives.

Men know perfectly well that rape is wrong. That doesn't mean some men won't still do it.

People like Bill Cosby probably wouldn't have been stopped by learning to value other people. This is true. But the guy in college who is in a fraternity? It might help him to understand that rape is wrong. Even if a girl is intoxicated. Even if she is known to be sexually active. Etc.

9% of college men admit to acts that meet the legal definition of rape or attempted rape. Do you really think that with a little more education, we can't drop those numbers?

Instead of teaching men not to rape, how about teaching both genders that hurting each other is wrong? The thing is, that's already being done. Any sane, well-meaning parent instills these values into their children.

I respect you Greens. But I'm confused. Didn't you just say that men will still rape, regardless of education?

One part of my post that you never addressed was how you would tell a male victim how he did something wrong that would make him responsible in even a small way for an assault on him.

I'd like to know how you'd advise men to not be victims of rape.

 

[moviedoors]

Teaching is not going to do anything. Murderers and rapist know those offenses are wrong, yet they do it anyway. We are taught from small that hitting, violence, etc is wrong yet some of us as adults do it anyway. It is because those individual are not operating within the same moral boundaries as the rest of society. No amount of teaching people not to do these things is going to make any sort of impactful difference. If that were the case, if it was such a straight forward fix, we would have seen changes already. .

We have. Generally speaking, the world is a less barbaric place for humans than it used to be.

 

[Feenix]

Absoluetely not! Male rape is an even bigger probelm imo. Men are less likely to report rape than women are.

Er, what? A bigger problem in what way?

 

[Golgo-13]

Er, what? A bigger problem in what way?

Bigger in the sense that it's less talked about. A general conception is that a man has the physical ability to fight back, therefore if he got raped he is not only a victim of rape he is less of a man for letting it happen and reporting it. Nobody claims a woman is less of a woman when she reports a rape.Young boys raped by abusive priests and pedophiles. Male Soldiers that are captured and raped by the enemy. Teenage boys that are cohersed into sex by their adult female/male teachers. Many more of these cases fly under the radar, and even when they do come out, there's even more scrutiny and much less sympathy for the victim, therefore it's a much bigger problem in that respect.

 

[Feenix]

Bigger in the sense that it's less talked about. A general conception is that a man has the physical ability to fight back, therefore if he got raped he is not only a victim of rape he is less of a man for letting it happen and reporting it. Nobody claims a woman is less of a woman when she reports a rape.Young boys raped by abusive priests and pedophiles. Male Soldiers that are captured and raped by the enemy. Teenage boys that are cohersed into sex by their adult female/male teachers. Many more of these cases fly under the radar, and even when they do come out, there's even more scrutiny and much less sympathy for the victim, therefore it's a much bigger problem in that respect.

Have you ever been a victim of rape? Do you know what kinds of questions get asked of women when they report a rape? You wouldn't think there's more scrutiny of male rape victims if you truly knew what a woman goes through when she reports rape.

Also, male rape pales in comparison (in terms of numbers) to female rape. I'm not saying that we shouldn't care, but you specifically said it's more of a problem which I disagree with.

As a woman, you don't seem to have much sympathy for your own sex. It's odd.

 

[Leenie]

Basically, this is my reaction throughout the whole thing:

I really did not want it to be true. I mean, who doesn't love The Cosby Show? Bill Cosby is a guy that many of us associate with wholesome family entertainment. Just hearing about this whole thing is heartbreaking to the fans that looked up to him for so many years. It feels like a big slap to the face.

"Innocent until proven guilty." Well, of course. In a legal sense, this is completely true. Over 30 victims coming out, though? I've read that a mere 2% of rape accusations are false. Are people really trying to go through the mental gymnastics to convince themselves that over 30 women lied? It's incredibly hard to believe.

Sigh. This whole thing really sucks, and it's sickening. If Bill Cosby isn't a serial rapist monster, then 30 women lied (and this will hurt future victims in the long run). There isn't a good outcome from this no matter how you look at it.

Heck, even if ONE woman lied about Cosby, it's going to discredit the other victims that have spoken out big time. 'Cause that's how these kind of situations work.

 

[Greens]

I respect you Greens. But I'm confused. Didn't you just say that men will still rape, regardless of education?

We have to teach our children certain values. Every parent does this. My point is that rape doesn't have to be a special point in a kid's education because the values and "rules" that pertain to rape are already covered. Obviously more education about rape wouldn't hurt anybody, but ''teaching men not to rape'' implies that the consensus is that rape is okay.

 

[chamber-music]

One thing still doesn't add up. Even though Bill is a was a popular, well liked celeb, I still cant believe that none of the women (who are mostly white) wouldn't go to the police if they were raped. A black man in like the 70 and 80's getting away with raping lots of white women? I don't think it was possible . I know today it would be possible until the person paid them loads of money.

Your not factoring the huge amount of sexism going around back then. Women who report rape today are rarely believed and when celebrities are involved they are believed even less. Even today rape convictions are embarrassingly low.

People put celebrities on pedestals and then act surprised when they aren't the saintly figures they believe them to be.

Celebrity black men are not going to be treated like the average non-celebrity black men. Even back then Cosby must of had some celebrity privilege and connections that would make it easier for him to get away these type of things I would imagine.

Just because you watch some guy on TV or in movies it doesn't mean you know them. I watched the Cosby Show as a kid but that doesn't mean I think Bill Cosby is immune to the rules of law.

 

[Greens]

Even today rape convictions are embarrassingly low.

To be fair, rape accusations often don't lead to convictions because it's very hard to prove. We can't believe everyone on their word and without evidence, the accused walks.

 

[chamber-music]

To be fair, rape accusations often don't lead to convictions because it's very hard to prove. We can't believe everyone on their word and without evidence, the accused walks.

But that is kind of the problem. Many rapes go unreported because the victims feel they aren't going to see the perpetrators brought to justice which can lead to rapists carrying on assaulting people.

No one is saying you believe every rape allegation but part of the problem is the attitude of some in society to prejudge the alleged victim just as badly as they judge the accused.

There was a big scandal a few years ago about thousands of rape test kits not being sent to labs to be analysed which lead to accused rap sits walking free.

If law enforcement aren't even going to investigate these allegations properly then no wonder rape conviction rates and rape reporting isn't going to go up.

 

[Leenie]

We have to teach our children certain values. Every parent does this. My point is that rape doesn't have to be a special point in a kid's education because the values and "rules" that pertain to rape are already covered. Obviously more education about rape wouldn't hurt anybody, but ''teaching men not to rape'' implies that the consensus is that rape is okay.

I agree with this.

I think this whole "rape culture" that tumblr aficionados cry about is aimed at a target/"solution" that doesn't really improve the situation. Rather than saying that "men should just be taught not to rape," I think the focus should be on how we treat rape victims. I've always been the type of person who believes that creating new laws and/or a culture in attempt to prevent crime doesn't work. Reacting the right way to crime is the way to go about solving things, in my opinion. By saying that men should be educated on how not to rape, then that's putting blame on people who most likely haven't done anything. That's why I don't think that mentality works.

Most of society, especially in the United States, unanimously considers rape to be one of the worst things you can do to a person. If rape were culturally accepted, then why do so many rapists try to be as discreet as possible about their actions?

 

[bullets]

Bill Cosby drugging women is repugnant. However, some of those women must have known there was going to be sex involved if you're visiting him in his hotel room. I suppose some could have been poorly coached by parents. Some of these women had to know they were dating a married a man. Educating people to protect themselves from few predators in the world can't hurt.

From what I've read he drugged these women to take advantage of them. They might of put themselves in a vulnerable position , but I dount any of them suspected Cosby of doing something like that. I'm some cases they might of been willing to do something with him. He took away the option though and left them without a choice. The education here is that you can't trust anyone.

 

[Golgo-13]

Have you ever been a victim of rape? Do you know what kinds of questions get asked of women when they report a rape? You wouldn't think there's more scrutiny of male rape victims if you truly knew what a woman goes through when she reports rape.

Also, male rape pales in comparison (in terms of numbers) to female rape. I'm not saying that we shouldn't care, but you specifically said it's more of a problem which I disagree with.

As a woman, you don't seem to have much sympathy for your own sex. It's odd.

I don't need to be sympathic because i'm a woman. The things i described have been documented time and time again. They are facts. Facts, in and itself, are gender neutral.