Black Panther 2: General Discussions & Speculations Thread

Discussion in 'Black Panther Sequels' started by Blitzkrieg, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. DeadStroke

    DeadStroke Registered

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    The scene was underlit in the theaters. However, that scene is perfectly lit on DVD/youtube, etc. Its a great scene. Probably wanted to you see how it really looks at night and how chaotic things can be. They still fixed it for the blu-ray.

    Ah..so because there were so many other great characters means that BP wasn't good enough? The fricking Joker outshines Batman every time. T'Challa

    Shuri didn't overshadow him. She's just new and cool. Okoye had her moments, but sometimes sidekicks are the favorites for some people (Han Solo).

    I hope Coogler does his own thing. It obviously worked critically and finacially. lol
     
  2. Chesterfield

    Chesterfield Registered

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    Granted the Nigerian scene is more visible on home release it's still an underlit scene.

    There's nothing wrong with having great characters but T'Challa is a great character in his own right and if you actually knew the character (which I'm not convinced you do) you'd know he was severely limited and yes, he was outshined. I'm not interested in drawing comparisons to Batman/Joker because Batman has had years of onscreen development where he's had a chance to shine and showcase why fans think he's awesome. T'Challa was mostly robbed of this in his own movie. Again, learn who the character is, what he's done and what he's capable of - he was undercut.

    Also sidekicks as you mentioned are loved...tgats to be expected as you mentioned with Han Solo but Luke still has/had an equally large if not larger fan base because of how his character was explored and the feats he accomplished.

    I trust Coogler to tell a deep and compelling story but I need him to emphasise focus on T'Challa' s nature as a character as portrayed by the writers I mentioned and to show more of Wakanda and why they're politically and technologically not to be trifled with and what positive influence they can have on the rest of the world.
     
  3. Tg11

    Tg11 Registered

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    I hope they give off like a political spy thriller type vibe for the sequel
     
  4. DeadStroke

    DeadStroke Registered

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    Yes they gave some could have been cool T'Challa scenes to Okoye. Yes they gave Shuri some of T'Challa's genius.

    No matter how you dice you it you're still upset about T'Challa and not the movie itself. Sometimes Comicbook characters won't be exactly how they are in the comics in the movies. It is what it is. Its a first film so T'Challa can grow. There's also a potential Superman issue if he's too perfect too soon.

    Also despite giving a great performance some of it falls on Boseman just not being as charismatic as Micheal B. Jordan. Boseman was still great though.

    Sure you could have gotten the T'Challa movie you wanted. However, the reason it became such a huge success is that it was the Wakanda movie the world needed. Fair trade.

    I hope you were this upset about Infinity War and Endgame with how they used T'Challa's character as well.
     
  5. Chesterfield

    Chesterfield Registered

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    It's not just T'Challa I have an issue with. Too little of Wakanda was shown, the significance if being the BP was ignored completely by suggesting anyone who consumed the heart shaped herb can assume the superhuman abilities of the BP when not only is that not the case but Bast has to give her consent too. This could have been shown but was not. Then there's the Wakandan army....it was way too small and as for Boseman not being as charismatic as Jordan, rubbish. I haven't seen a single performance from Jordan that comes close to being as charismatic as Boseman was in Get On Up. T'Challa can be stoic but he has and should convey more personality (like in the source material) Honestly, what's the point of look8bg at the source material if you're not going to draw from it? Priest and Hudlin knew how to write such a compelling character. The problem is Coogler seems to be leaning more towards the idiotic interpretation from Coates.

    As for IW and End Game, sure I would have preferred to see more BP but I don't feel the need to complain that much because it's not a BP film and to be honest I was happier with how hecwas presented in those Avengets movies than I was with him in his own film. Look, you can't read Enemy of the state and who is the black panther and be 100% satisfied with the BP movie. There's always room for improvement but a few better creative choices could have made the BP film more enjoyable for me and even better received all round.
     
  6. DeadStroke

    DeadStroke Registered

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    The movie has an A+ Cinemascore (only the first Avengers film and Endgame has that) , 96% on RT and 88 metacritic (highest ever for a comicbook movie), nominated for 7 oscars (first to get a Best Pic nod), won a SAG Ensemble award (top prize) and a host of other awards.

    Coogler and crew made that decision for narrative tension in the story. Nothing is as exact from the comics. Not in Civil War, not in Infinity War, etc.

    I never looked at the Wakandan army as the full army in that movie. Just the ones who were helping out with the transfer of weapons that day. It just so happen to be the day T'Challa plotted his return to take the throne back.

    The truth is they were put in a limiting situation because of Marvel/Russos and made something special regardless. It was always going to be just "the film before Infinity War" They took away Klaue killing T'Chaka which would have given him some real personal interest. Yet, you really couldn't do the exact same thing with him as in Civil War. You can't really do anything earth shattering because its still just the film before Infinity War. They pulled off a miracle in terms of story telling with the limitations of being in a cinematic universe that its only place (based on IW/Endgame) was to be a 3rd act setpiece and for a cool re-entry. Thats it. Nothing new or important gained for the character. How was that handled better that a new young carving out his own identity and discarded thousands of years of tradtion.

    This T'Challa had a lot of layers to his character and he was in a transistion mode. Good screen writing is catching T'Challa at his most conflicted moment while having an assured villain. It allowed for something unique.....A HERO WHO LEARNED FROM THE VILLAIN.

    The only thing IW/Endgame T'Challa had was better CGI and a guy who had been king for a while.

    The best version of the lead character doesnt = best movie. I'm sure T'Challa will be that guy you want in the next film because he's had real development and was apart of real change.
     
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  7. Chesterfield

    Chesterfield Registered

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    I don't care too much about the scores and accolades it got, while great for the movie it doesn't mean THAT much to me as a fan. I'm a huge Bond fan and skyfall was brilliantly praised, won an Oscar and people went nuts for that film and all that and I personally can't stand the film. My opinion matters to me.

    As for the difference between BP and his appearances in IW/EG...him being King longer isn't a factor and the effects more or less looked the same. The only noticeable thing was that IW/EG T'Challa moved and fought like how he did akin to his appearance in CW....although I don't understand in IW why he had to be touching an ear piece or speak into his wrist to communicate when his solo film already conveyed he had the technology to communicate without having to do those things.

    As for being the film just before in IW, not sure what point you're trying to make to me because I don't really care about Klaw not being the one to kill T'Chaka. I'm cool with changes being made and I'm happy with the overall story of the BP movie, it's just that some of the execution left a lot to he desired and what I would have like to see doesn't take away from what could be seen in future instalments. It's simply a case of following through with what's been presented effectively and more accurately that highlights an evil some cases further emphasises why Wakanda and its culture are special and unique as well as the mantle of being BP itself.

    T'Challa' s fight scenes at the Seoul casino were Rubbish, nothing remotely superhuman looking about it other than jumping up to meet Klaw and surviving his blast/fall.

    T'Challa was too passive towards W'Kabi, the fight against the boarder tribe was a joke, Bast's absence from the process of taking the hsh for the taker to be deemed worthy or not was a missed opportunity.

    Like I said, in the end this film was good but it could and should have been better. They need Redjack or better yet Hudlin as a consultant on the script or to co-write, then audiences will really see a Black Panther film.
     
    #82 Chesterfield, Jul 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  8. King_Nomarch

    King_Nomarch Registered

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    A bloodlusted T'Challa went 1-5 in CW and his abilities weren't shown to be all that superhuman either and IW & EG didn't do any better. Ryan put in a much larger effort to show that he was superhuman and in one scene did a far better job at showing T'Challa being strong, skilled, and smart than the Russos in 3 movies. Rather not see Hudlin involved creatively in the sequel, didn't like his run that much and hated the Storm marriage. If Ryan had to bring someone in I rather see Thorne or Priest, but especially CJP, he wrote the best version.
     
  9. Chesterfield

    Chesterfield Registered

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    You came to this conclusion how? T'Challa wasn't ALWAYS out for the kill prior to learning the truth about Zemo and secondly, he was the only one that went toe to toe with a brainwashed Bucky and bested him physically without his suit. Not only was that a clear demonstration of his superhuman abilities but then there was his speed in which he outrank cars, outpaced Bucky aftet taking a direct punch from Bucky's arm and being knocked down only to immediately get up and rush to get to higher ground and jump across down to meet Bucky again. Then there was that casual jump over the railing, landing on his feetwhich was from about 50 ft height and of course his double jump kick against cap and catching 2 exploding arrows shot from Hawkeye. To say these are examples of not being all that superhuman is just flat out false; especially the aforementioned scenes with T'Challa out of his suit. As for IW and EG did you not see BP's superspeed when he and cap ran ahead to lead the charge in IW then in EG him running the gauntlet scene and immediately getting back up after taking a forceful hit from Thanos' sword? The same sword that shattered Camp's shield. Besides, the appearances BP has made outside of his own solo film have been limited, especially the last 2 Avengers films so we're obviously not going to get to see much of anything from him BUT his own solo film...that's his stage and space to showcase T'Challa's dexterities which are lacking.

    I simply don't agree with this in the slightest. Which scene are you referring to?

    You can forget Priest. He hated the BP movie and he's not interested in writing or working on projects with black protagonists anymore. Hudson at least has a relationship with Bozeman and I love his run on the comics. 'WITBP' is one of the best BP stories that shows the strength of character of who T'Challa is, who the Wakandans are and showcases a BP that is unashamedly black, African, powerful, charismatic, confident, superiorly skilled fighter that kicks ass and isn't about that bs. Hudlin's BP is the most accessibly cinematic version of the character.
     
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  10. King_Nomarch

    King_Nomarch Registered

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    The only fight that could argued that T'Challa was fighting seriously was against Cap but even then that fight was extremely disappointing. Cap dodges/block 99% of what BP threw at him and BP had WM backing him.

    The forest fight in BP is when he did a far better job than them. T'Challa used strategy here and was well thought out. He disables the trucks and gets the traffickers to exit the trucks. He takes out two of them before they could fire a single shot despite both of them already having their fingers on the triggers. From a distance he nearly throws one of them through a truck. There's literally not a single strength feat from CW, IW, or Endgame that compares to that one feat.

    While all of them began shooting in the direction where the guy came from, he ran around behind them and strikes a guy hard enough to send him and his truck mounted gun flying, again there isn't a scene from his other appearances that compare.

    Without looking he causes a man to flip and knocks him out after throwing half a door that he cut off at him. T'Challa's claws struggled to cut through a random rusty stick Bucky picks up. He has no such issues in his movie.

    Not once in his other appearances did he fight with the skill, strength, and intelligence shown in that one scene.

    The biggest thing T'Challa got to do in a fight in CW was beat Hawkeye, the Yamcha of the Avengers after getting held back by him in a fight that lasted too long. I would be more impressed by the arrows to the face if it were the same kind as the ones Hawkeye used in Avengers or AoU and not the low grade explosive arrows in CW that aren't meant to hurt anyone, only distract them. Remaining conscious from the explosion to the face that he got in BP was much more impressive especially considering Aquaman was hit by what looked exactly like the same weapon Killmonger used but got temporarily knocked out while T'Challa only suffered from his senses getting overloaded.

    The only thing the Russos seem to got right was running and that's it. Where's the strength? Strategy? Etc.

    T'Challa took much stronger hits in his movie than getting hit by Thanos sword. Klaue destroyed two cars with his sonic cannon. T'Challa gets hit by it and the most that happens is a small portion of the suit gets destroyed. The rhino hit him with far greater force than the sword, it sent him flying in the air and crashing into a rock with only getting the wind knocked out of him. Finally during his final fight with Killmonger, T'Challa got hit by a train when the suit's protection got deactivated and still got up to fight.

    When Thanos broke Cap's shield he was pissed off and doing repeated heavy blows to it. T'Challa would've been dead or seriously wounded if he was hit by one of those blows.

    I'm not sure where you got CJP hated the movie from, he liked it, he gave it a glowing review. His only real complaint was that it follows the Marvel formula, a big battle in the final act where the hero fights a evil version of himself and the conflict is resolved by fighting. The only time I can think of him criticizing the character is back during CW because BP goes after Bucky on nothing but a blurry picture.

    Ryan and Marvel invited CJP to the set before, it won't be surprising if they bring him back for the sequel.
     
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  11. Chesterfield

    Chesterfield Registered

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    No. BP wasn't fighting seriously against Cap. Despite being on opposing sides BP had/has a lot of respect for Cap as evidenced by greeting him when He shows up at the airport and then giving him a warning to 'move' which he then proceeded to do that high jump double kick. There was also a scene in the TV spots that got deleted from the final film where BP overpowers Cap by pulling his shield down as Cap struggles to hold it up. Also, Cap blocking and dodging shouldn't be a surprise and takes nothing away from BP as these 2 have ALWAYS more or less been evenly matched and again T'Challa wasn't trying to kill Cap but at the very least distract him and keep him away from Bucky. If Bucky had been caught by Team Iron Man then it's not hard to surmise that it would have been easier for T'Challa to get his hands on him because he would have politically speaking likely ended up in a Wakandan prison or in reality been executed by T'Challa himself on Wakandan soil. Now if T'Challa got his hands on Bucky during the airport fight, its here where his 1 on 1 fights with Bucky was serious and the only time he would have gone "rogue" from Team Iron man. If it wasn't for Wanda at the very last nano second, Bucky would have been dead; as evidenced by BP almost ripping Bucky's throat out. As for Rhodey, in these big team up films he's for the most part getting his ass handed to him and pretty much was a distraction during the Cap and T'Challa fight. He essentially handicap to what T'Challa was doing.

    This Nigeria scene is a great example of how BP should be portrayed in general. However, what's sad and ironic is is that this felt more like the Russo's version of BP as it's not just his first appearance in his own film but he's even wearing his CW suit. This is the first and last time Coogler does anything physically and meaningfully impressive with the character as a superiorly skilled fighting superhuman. In any case all that you mentioned is undermined by the fact that he almost killed a scared prisoner who was practically a child, he froze once he saw Nakia and thus let his guard down and lost further concentration resulting in a soldier holding up a hostage. Botched plan is now salvaged by Okoye who calls T'Challa out for losing his focus because of Nakia. As for comparable strength feats outside of his solo film, you need to look at the circumstances in which BP appeared. In IW and EG he's in the middle of a battlefield fighting swarms of aliens fairing better than most in kicking their asses and rewatch the scene where he's running the gauntlet; without using the kinetic force push he slams a hulk sized monster to the ground with 2 hand whilst running(strength) and takes a direct hit from Thanos' sword and immediately gets back up. Meanwhile, in his solo film he's getting the crap kicked out of him by the boarder tribe. If this was T'Challa as he SHOULD be portrayed, he would have gone all Rama (Raid style) on their asses (obviously without killing them but to incapacitate and teach them a lesson in the process)...aaaaand I've already mentioned what he did in CW and then there's his durability which I essentially pointed out also. Make no mistake strength and durability do go hand in hand.

    Rusty stick? It was a dense piece of metal tgat Bucky used to distance himself from BP and from the looks of it iirc it seemed like T'Challa wasn't trying to initially cut through it but tried to strike Bucky with his claws only for Bucky to defend himself with the metal bar....which T'Challa now tried to push the bar down on him whilst taking gun fire and then he used his claws to tear apart the metal.


    That's not entirely true and even then T'Challa was taking out a bunch of ordinary soldiers. Not much was required from him to take them out. Black Widow could have got the job done. The only thing T'Challa needed to do was to ensure none of the hostages were killed and because of his "intelligence" he ended up almost having 2 hostages killed. Where's the T'Challa who in CW went to Siberia and was able to conceal his aircraft from radar? Where's the T'Challa who was able to conceal his heat signature from Iron Man's tech in Siberia? Seems to me that the Russo's were able to convey a more resourceful and forward thinking BP than Coogler.

    Then you need to pay closer attention to CW if you genuinely believe that; and irrespective of any arrow being shot from a bow, anyone that can catchvan arrow much less 2 from a super marksman like Hawkeye definitely deserves props.

    Aquaman? Don't see the relevance.

    Pay closer attention to what the Russo's did with the character in all 3 of their films...mind you they're huge ensemble films where BP has limited screen time and he's not the focus in a set of circumstances not afforded to him unlike say his own solo film. It's amazing that your main point of reference in support of the solo film is the Russo-esque version of the character which was NEVER seen again throughout the film once he left Nigeria and headed back to wakanda and again, the forest scene was pretty much to some extent a failed mission on T'Challa's part. He ultimately didnt even save the day despite proclaiming he didn't need any help.

    Lol Thanos' sword is made from Uru metal. The same metal Stormbreaker and mjolnir are made from. And you think the force behind throwing such a sword from someone who's in a furious and desperate state who btw manhandled the hulk for fun (the same hulk who dismantled and stopped a flying speeding chitauri worm with a single punch) and someone even Wanda struggled with to push away is weaker than being hit by a rhino or a train against a superhuman? If Cap, Bucky and T'Challa are all in the same superhuman bracket and bearing in mind what Bucky can do with his metal arm and T'Challa can take a direct full force hit from it and get back up and brush it off...being hit by your aforementioned is minor.

    Maybe I'm misinformed on the overall sentiment Priest has for the film/character portrayal. I'll have to re-read his thoughts.
     
    #86 Chesterfield, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  12. Melpardus

    Melpardus Registered

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    All I'll add to flesh out Priest's thoughts on Black Panther is that he liked the movie, liked most of the characterizations and world building throughout; his big gripes were the aforementioned "MCU formula" with the big fight at the end that tries to resolve a complex problem Killmonger brings up by just a big fight at the end. If he had anything against any of the characters as a whole, it was Killmonger, whom he called an idiot.
     
  13. King_Nomarch

    King_Nomarch Registered

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    Not once does he take out a Hulk sized monster without the force push in EG and the only Hulk sized monster he "fought" was Black Dwarf who gets taken out by Bruce.

    You really can't think that the force behind the sword throw is equal to the amount of force from a pissed off Thanos repeated landing heavy blows? Which would do more damage: a rock thrown at you or one being bashed into your head by someone that's putting effort into it?

    Before that moment, the times that the sword hits the shield it doesn't break. Not to mention Cap's shield is solid metal while the habit isn't so it would take more force to cut/brake it than it would the suit.

    Are you really comparing the sword to Stormbreaker and Mjolnir. Stormbreaker was ment to be the most powerful weapon in Asgard and is powerful enough to destroy a planet if Thor chooses to leave the Bifrost on and strong enough to cut through a energy blast of a completed IG and mentioned by either the Russos or writers that Etri designed it to be able to beat the IG.

    Stormbreaker obviously has magic/enhancements that Mjolnir and the sword don't with the former getting crushed by Hela's barehand, I dont see her doing that with Stormbreaker nor do I see Thanos crushing it either.

    Sonics have been shown to disable vibranium and Klaue's cannon only destroyed a small portion of BP's suit leaving him otherwise unfazed. Before that it destroys two cars. Even without the suit he gets hit by it from close range and gets back up.

    Yes the rhino hit with more force and it can be clearly seen which one had more force behind it.

    Without vibranium protection ge takes a direct hit from a train, not once does he takes on a comparable force head on without his suit.

    Really Bucky's metal arm. His metal arm hasn't done anywhere near the damage output as anything he went against without the suit's protection in his solo.

    After the forest fight Ryan still offered much better strength feats than the Russos. He lifts a car, in his other appearances he doesn't do anything comparable. With a single spear throw he takes out a vibranium jet, he took down no jets in his other appearances. He later brings down a rhino, doesn't bring down anything of comparable weight by the Russos. While holding back he kicks W'Kabi a considerable distance, he didn't strike anyone as hard as he did in his own movie in his other appearances with just his strength.

    CW, IW, or EG offered no strength feats that compares to what he did in his solo. The only thing they did more of was the running.

    Getting whooped by the Border Tribe? Are joking? He took out how many of them in a single blow while dodging sonic blast from a jet? He's also holding back on them because they're his countrymen. The only time they come close to "beating him up" is after taking the full force of a rhino and crashing into a large rock hard enough to form cracks.

    The airport battle T'Challa was getting whooped by Bucky and the rest of the airport battle didn't do him any favors. After tackling Bucky to the ground, Bucky just starts owning him repeatedly. He sends T'Challa rolling and when he got back up he lands 3 more blows before T'Challa could finish going through with his one. During the BW v Hawkeye fight him and Bucky can be seen fighting in the background. T'Challa tries to lands 2 blows with them getting dodged and blocked and Bucky throws a punch and lands a headshot. It's only after Bucky stops fighting to reason with him is when he gets the upper hand. If Bucky never stopped he likely would've choked him similar to like he did Cap.

    Before that fight people seem to forget that in their previous encounters Bucky is more concerned with escaping than he was fighting.

    It would take less effort to bring down the shield than it would for Cap to keep it up. Another deleted moment from that part is after the shield gets lowered and before Rhodey gets involved, Cap punches BP and causes him to take a few steps back, it can be seen in the b-roll footage on YouTube. In the comics they've been shown to be equal but during their fight in CW not so much. T'Challa is determined to get passed him because the man he thinks killed his dad is right in front of him and the only person in his way was Cap. He also had WM backing him, they had the advantage. T'Challa ends up landing 1/10 strikes while Cap went 3/3 while at a big disadvantage.

    What should've been done to show them as equals would have been to have given to remove WM and given their fight the focus that Cap's fight with Spider-Man got.

    Hawkeye may be a great marksman but compared to the other Avengers he's useless which is why he's their Yamcha while BW would be Krillin. He still shouldn't have lasted as long as he did against BP especially how easily Widow took him out in Avengers when he was trying to kill her. He should've been quickly dealt with the same way Bucky dealt with BW.
     
  14. DeadStroke

    DeadStroke Registered

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    Funny you say that when Priest wasn't a fan of BP in CW either.
     
  15. DeadStroke

    DeadStroke Registered

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  16. Dr. Evil

    Dr. Evil Registered

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    I like the Shuri-T'Challa relationship. It's a fresh take because the MCU doesn't need another sibling relationship that is complicated. We have seen that with Thor and Loki and Nebula and Gamora. This one is more straight forward.
     
  17. Silvermoth

    Silvermoth Avenger

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    Yeah that’s a good point
     
  18. KRYPTON INC.

    KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    Definitely refreshing, especially in pop culture in general terms.
     
  19. BaelaTargaryen

    BaelaTargaryen Registered

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  20. BaelaTargaryen

    BaelaTargaryen Registered

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  21. bubbadoom

    bubbadoom Registered

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    So I guess this one is coming out on February 18, 2022...
     
  22. OnTheAir

    OnTheAir Wakandan Ambassador

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    I’m hoping for the May 2022 slot. Black Panther is the MCU’s most successful solo film to date. I feel like the franchise has earned the May date, which is generally reserved for Marvel Studios’ biggest film each year.
     
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  23. bubbadoom

    bubbadoom Registered

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    I think Panther coming out in Feb contributed to its success - it had little competition until the May releases and the entire Black History Month angle certainly contributed - so why mess with success...?
     
  24. OnTheAir

    OnTheAir Wakandan Ambassador

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    I know people feel that way, and that's fine...they'll probably get their wish. I'm just stating my personal preference, as I think the property has earned it. And who's to say that there won't be competition in February/March/April this time around?
     
  25. Fallen

    Fallen "Spider-Man WILL return"

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    YES! :applaud

    Put him in every MCU movie.
     

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