Bombing at Ariana Grande concert in England

[Enriquespy]

The terrorist was waiting at the lobby when people were exiting.

The place was crowded with parents meeting their kids to pick the up after the concert.

F**ing coward.

 

[PacificBoy]

But authoritarianism is a very real threat. How many times has Trump tried to become the American version of Putin? God only knows what the clown would do if his hands weren't completely tied.

Isn't the US constitution robust enough to prevent Trump or any other megalomaniac from doing just that?

For sure, and I'm not advocating for anything extreme, but I feel like again because this is Islam people are biting back any heavy-handed criticisms.

What's wrongheaded of our leaders, I find, is saying "this has nothing to do with Islam", when (1) they themselves, for the most part, are as kafir as you and me, people who are supposedly ill-equipped to make such sweeping proclamations of the religion, and when (2) they un-ironically assert that Islam isn't monolithic in the same breath.

The kind of public discourse which should be encouraged is a muslim vis a vis muslim one, to provide a platform to dissenting Muslim voices, to actually show the concerned non-Muslims that Islam in practice isn't a singular and stereotypical bloc.

There was a vigil today, People seem to be coming together to stop hate from winning. I like this city.

Manchester is a fine city, and a fine example of working multiculturalism.

 

[PacificBoy]

Threat level has just been raised to critical it's reported.

 

[The Endless]

Wtf?

Assuming it was a poorly made joke.

Nah i ain't joking. Im not talking about executing everyone in a watch list. Im talking about executing those who are proven to have terrorist links.

Belmarsh prison in London is ****ing overrun with these terrorists. It's a breeding ground. They can't be deported because the vast majority are born and bred here. Well... Just execute the c***s. What reason do they have to keep breathing? Like that wanker Choudary and his ilk. He isn't just excersizing his right to free speech... he is brain washing young Muslims. He's a recruiter. Execute the prick. Job done.

The Muslim communities need to start doing more. Not just verbally condemning these attacks. It's not enough. Any suspicious activities at Mosques or even their own families need to be reported. They need to start actively hunting the extremists in their midsts, instead of protecting family members or not doing anything through fear.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

This is awful. Just awful. My heart hurts for the parents, and those who lost their lives. Deplorable people.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Nah i ain't joking. Im not talking about executing everyone in a watch list. Im talking about executing those who are proven to have terrorist links.

Belmarsh prison in London is ****ing overrun with these terrorists. It's a breeding ground. They can't be deported because the vast majority are born and bred here. Well... Just execute the c***s. What reason do they have to keep breathing? Like that wanker Choudary and his ilk. He isn't just excersizing his right to free speech... he is brain washing young Muslims. He's a recruiter. Execute the prick. Job done.

The Muslim communities need to start doing more. Not just verbally condemning these attacks. It's not enough. Any suspicious activities at Mosques or even their own families need to be reported. They need to start actively hunting the extremists in their midsts, instead of protecting family members or not doing anything through fear.

Doesn't this amount to genocide?

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster."

 

[chamber-music]

Nah i ain't joking. Im not talking about executing everyone in a watch list. Im talking about executing those who are proven to have terrorist links.

Belmarsh prison in London is ****ing overrun with these terrorists. It's a breeding ground. They can't be deported because the vast majority are born and bred here. Well... Just execute the c***s. What reason do they have to keep breathing? Like that wanker Choudary and his ilk. He isn't just excersizing his right to free speech... he is brain washing young Muslims. He's a recruiter. Execute the prick. Job done.

The Muslim communities need to start doing more. Not just verbally condemning these attacks. It's not enough. Any suspicious activities at Mosques or even their own families need to be reported. They need to start actively hunting the extremists in their midsts, instead of protecting family members or not doing anything through fear.

The government is doing thing to counter extremism in prisons.

The British government just opened separate wings for radical extremists in prisons so that they can't radicalize other prisoners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39662736

A specialist team of counter-terrorists will also train prison staff on how to deter offenders from being radicalised and advise jails on how to deal with dangerous prisoners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39470210

Some Imans and family members do alert the authorities to people with extremist views. I remember watching a episode of Newsnight in which they interviewed the father of a terrorists who went to Afghanistan/Iraq and was killed. The guy's son was radicalized by some people he met and his family tried everything to stop him but he was effectively brainwashed. The kid turned on his family and said they aren't real Muslims because they don't subscribe to his view of radical Islam. His father went to the police to inform them about his son and the fact he might plan to leave the country to join a terror group. He even tried to get the cops to take his son's passport away.

 

[Mani-Man]

Nah i ain't joking. Im not talking about executing everyone in a watch list. Im talking about executing those who are proven to have terrorist links.

Belmarsh prison in London is ****ing overrun with these terrorists. It's a breeding ground. They can't be deported because the vast majority are born and bred here. Well... Just execute the c***s. What reason do they have to keep breathing? Like that wanker Choudary and his ilk. He isn't just excersizing his right to free speech... he is brain washing young Muslims. He's a recruiter. Execute the prick. Job done.

The Muslim communities need to start doing more. Not just verbally condemning these attacks. It's not enough. Any suspicious activities at Mosques or even their own families need to be reported. They need to start actively hunting the extremists in their midsts, instead of protecting family members or not doing anything through fear.

But thats the thing, is having terrorist links the same as being one?
If one has a brother who is terrorist, does that mean the person has to be executed just because his brother is a terrorist.
I do think that we are not "hard" enough towards known terrorists or those who preach this kind of mindest...but downright executing them for "just" having ties...doesnt seem the right thing either to me.

Its a fine line, because once you cross it...its very easy to expand the reason and justification for it.
And it could go from executing people who have ties, to executing people who just happen to look like those who have ties and so on.

The Muslim community does more, but prejudice is a strong thing and often it works against muslims.
If you are treated with wariness and all that, it doesnt really do much good for muslims.

Being born and grow up in this religious and harsh enviroment, leaves a lot of scars...many which you dont even see.
It is not healthy and coming to america, uk or so and being faced with people who think you are a problem...doesnt do much to get rid of those scars.

I know that Muslims have been thrown out of hospitals etc when they wanted to show their support, they have been treated very unkind when all they wanted to do was show support and help.
And imagine what would happen if thousand of muslims go on the streets to protest against those terror attacks and stuff...i dont think that would go well considering prejudice.

Its a awful situation for everybody.

 

[The Endless]

The government is doing thing to counter extremism in prisons.

The British government just opened separate wings for radical extremists in prisons so that they can't radicalize other prisoners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39662736

A specialist team of counter-terrorists will also train prison staff on how to deter offenders from being radicalised and advise jails on how to deal with dangerous prisoners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39470210

Some Imans and family members do alert the authorities to people with extremist views. I remember watching a episode of Newsnight in which they interviewed the father of a terrorists who went to Afghanistan/Iraq and was killed. The guy's son was radicalized by some people he met and his family tried everything to stop him but he was effectively brainwashed. The kid turned on his family and said they aren't real Muslims because they don't subscribe to his view of radical Islam. His father went to the police to inform them about his son and the fact he might plan to leave the country to join a terror group. He even tried to get the cops to take his son's passport away.

Why didn't the police take his passport away and sort him out then?

Because they'd be accused of discrimination etc.

You all make good points, and I do empathise with the good Muslims being tarnished.

I also understand the slippery slope argument. It's the whole "How much of your freedom are you willing to give up to feel safe" argument.

But still, more needs to be done. The kid gloves need to come off. The problem is there are too many bleeding hearts who seem to be more concerned with the rights of suspected terrorists... rather than the rights of potential and actual victims.

 

[The Endless]

Doesn't this amount to genocide?

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster."

Sometimes it takes a monster to defeat one...

But no I'm not talking about genocide. I'm talking about exterminating the likes of Choudary and his ilk. The ones who go to soldiers funerals and burn poppies and abuse victims families and actively try to radicalise youngsters who don't know any better.

Why are these wankers still breathing our air? They're using the rights of our country, rights that ironically they don't have in their stone age countries, to attack us?! And we ****ing put up with it?!

 

[PacificBoy]

Sometimes it takes a monster to defeat one...

But no I'm not talking about genocide. I'm talking about exterminating the likes of Choudary and his ilk. The ones who go to soldiers funerals and burn poppies and abuse victims families and actively try to radicalise youngsters who don't know any better.

Why are these wankers still breathing our air? They're using the rights of our country, rights that ironically they don't have in their stone age countries, to attack us?! And we ****ing put up with it?!

Because doing so will only make them martyrs for the cause, which modern radical groups like ISIS and their sophisticated propaganda machine can only take advantage of.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Sometimes it takes a monster to defeat one...

But no I'm not talking about genocide. I'm talking about exterminating the likes of Choudary and his ilk. The ones who go to soldiers funerals and burn poppies and abuse victims families and actively try to radicalise youngsters who don't know any better.

Why are these wankers still breathing our air? They're using the rights of our country, rights that ironically they don't have in their stone age countries, to attack us?! And we ****ing put up with it?!

Believe it or not, protecting the rights of evil men also protects the rights of good men.

Yeah, we can't round up and execute people with backwards beliefs but when you justifiably oppose the status quo, the government can't suddenly label you a terrorist, round up you and your associates and execute you for "security".

And what is considered backwards and terroristic seems obvious today but what meets that criteria could become more relatable and enter a grey area in the future and you will be praying that your civil liberties are respected at that point.

 

[terry78]

So in layman's terms there is no answer but to just take more and more precautions whenever something happens.

 

[The Endless]

Or just stand back and get ****ed because no one has the bottle to make the hard choices.

Screaming abuse at a victims family... blatantly hate preaching and inciting violence... These things are obvious and I don't see how stopping that will one day lead to me not having the freedoms I have right now.

 

[PacificBoy]

I suppose the intelligence agencies like MI5 and GCHQ could go on an immediate and public recruitment drive, as part PR exercise and actual recruitment drive, since they say they're short on manpower to keep the necessary physical surveillance on persons of interest. They certainly seem to have the funding as they've been massively backed at each round of government spending since 2013.

 

[Iceman]

Where possible, the kinds of things that are considered suspicious activities should be explicitly banned altogether just to ease the load on resources for intelligence services so that they can focus on the bigger threats. People who are innocent aren't going to care that much about a few restrictions that would keep them and others safe and also keep themselves from being mistakenly (and inefficiently) placed on watchlists due to not knowing when they were doing something seemingly innocent.

 

[PacificBoy]

Where possible, the kinds of things that are considered suspicious activities should be explicitly banned altogether just to ease the load on resources for intelligence services so that they can focus on the bigger threats. People who are innocent aren't going to care that much about a few restrictions that would keep them and others safe and also keep themselves from being mistakenly (and inefficiently) placed on watchlists due to not knowing when they were doing something seemingly innocent.

I agree with the overall sentiment but in practice and in all likelihood it's going to be the Muslim communities who'd feel that particular heat. So it goes back to the question of 'what are we willing to give up here? Who are we willing to give up here?'

 

[Sithborg]

Or just stand back and get ****ed because no one has the bottle to make the hard choices.

Screaming abuse at a victims family... blatantly hate preaching and inciting violence... These things are obvious and I don't see how stopping that will one day lead to me not having the freedoms I have right now.

Because so many that advocate such measures, fail to see a future where such practices will be used against you.

 

[Legendver2]

You pretty much know that the ultra-right will probably use this incident for their political agenda sometime soon.

 

[chamber-music]

I suppose the intelligence agencies like MI5 and GCHQ could go on an immediate and public recruitment drive, as part PR exercise and actual recruitment drive, since they say they're short on manpower to keep the necessary physical surveillance on persons of interest. They certainly seem to have the funding as they've been massively backed at each round of government spending since 2013.

They would need to train and vet all the potential recruits which would take time.

Part of the issue is how long do you carry on devoting resources to surveying a suspect? Some of these guys have been on terror watch lists for over a decade but the authorities don't have actionable intel on them to do anything. Some of these people will just talk a lot of jihadist propaganda but not actually act on it. The intelligence agencies have a very difficult task.

 

[PacificBoy]

They would need to train and vet all the potential recruits which would take time.

Part of the issue is how long do you carry on devoting resources to surveying a suspect? Some of these guys have been on terror watch lists for over a decade but the authorities don't have actionable intel on them to do anything. Some of these people will just talk a lot of jihadist propaganda but not actually act on it. The intelligence agencies have a very difficult task.

Those are the logistics involved yeah. My point was more about allaying public concern, and maybe it's not that meaningful a gesture. Agree about the difficulty of the task at hand, when we see the intelligence and security services being stretched as well as counter-radicalisation programmes like Prevent being seemingly unhelpful.

 

[The Endless]

How about recruiting more from Muslim communities? If the good guys don't want to be tarnished then why wouldn't they?

 

[The Endless]

Because so many that advocate such measures, fail to see a future where such practices will be used against you.

Why would innocent people who don't harass victims families or preach violence and hate have anything to worry about?

 

[PacificBoy]

How about recruiting more from Muslim communities? If the good guys don't want to be tarnished then why wouldn't they?

Pretty sure every effort is already being made to do, for the longest time. Informants, undercover operatives are a big part of the counterterrorism apparatus.

 

[Brian Braddock]

You pretty much know that the ultra-right will probably use this incident for their political agenda sometime soon.

UKIP has already gone back out campaigning in an all too transparent attempt to exploit the situation for electoral gain. Support for them was at a record low, so I'm hoping peoples raw feelings dont steer them in that direction.