Brave and the Bold Casting Thread

[Eddie Dean]

Why does Batman have to be tall? What important part of his character is conveyed by him being over 5'11?

 

[SwordOfMorning]

He will also spend the entire movie in big **** off combat boots. Is there a single issue stemming from Keaton being average height in any of his movies? I know our DCU head thinks he sucked but that’s beside the point lol

 

[Invader Joker]

Why does Batman have to be tall? What important part of his character is conveyed by him being over 5'11?

He will also spend the entire movie in big **** off combat boots. Is there a single issue stemming from Keaton being average height in any of his movies? I know our DCU head thinks he sucked but that’s beside the point lol

Well, for one, Batman is supposed to be imposing, so just from that angle being tall can serve as an extremely useful cinematic tool, just like how Robert Pattinson being tall helped with certain scenes like the one in which he's entering the crime scene and towering above everybody, or when he's in the crime scene and the same thing happened.

Also in a DCU context I do think him being tall could be extra helpful visually considering that not only will they be selling the idea of Batman as this patriarch figure compared to all the other vigilantes in the Bat-Family (which is again, a very easy visual sell when he's towering above everybody else. Another example I can think of is how James Gandolfini seemed absolutely massive compared to his underlings in The Sopranos and how that 100% helped with how domineering he felt over a lot of scenes) but also, once he's with the Justice League or with Superman or whatever, surrounded by all those others metahumans that are all much stronger than he is, him being tall and completely imposing in the suit also creates a very easy visual way to sell them literally looking up to him or standing head to head to him.

/Especially/ if Gunn's take of "Batman in the JL" is anything like the Justice League International comic (which is probably likely to be, since Gunn is a big fan of said comic) where he could literally just walk into a room full of all those people and he immediately intimidated them with his presence alone.





Like, come on. There's a reason Lucas used 6'6 David Prowse to sell Darth Vader. A dark, tall menacing figure is just naturally imposing and cinematically interesting.


And I get the Keaton example but:
1) The Burton movies were shot in an extremely idiosyncratic (and often limiting) way to sell that Batman. There's a 0% chance that any DCU movie gets shot like that. Also, part of the appeal of that Batman was that he was kinda supposed to be the everyman but with a weirdo twist so his height being average worked perfectly for that, but Morrison's Batman (which will be the template for this) is anything but the everyman. Two entirely different approaches to the character.
2) Michael Keaton's Batman never had to interact with a 6'4 Superman so there's that.
3) Michael Keaton was Michael Keaton and I ain't seen any modern day equivalents to Michael Keaton here so it really is a moot point. Like, I do agree that some actors can be have such a ridiculously strong screen presence to the point it could override physical aspects like height (Jake Gyllenhaal would 100% be 1000 times more intimidating than Oliver Jackson Cohen as Batman despite the latter being 6'4) but it's not like we have a single one like that in the 5'10 or shorter names we've mentioned.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Well, for one, Batman is supposed to be imposing, so just from that angle being tall can serve as an extremely useful cinematic tool, just like how Robert Pattinson being tall helped with certain scenes like the one in which he's entering the crime scene and towering above everybody, or when he's in the crime scene and the same thing happened.

Also in a DCU context I do think him being tall could be extra helpful visually considering that not only will they be selling the idea of Batman as this patriarch figure compared to all the other vigilantes in the Bat-Family (which is again, a very easy visual sell when he's towering above everybody else. Another example I can think of is how James Gandolfini seemed absolutely massive compared to his underlings in The Sopranos and how that 100% helped with how domineering he felt over a lot of scenes) but also, once he's with the Justice League or with Superman or whatever, surrounded by all those others metahumans that are all much stronger than he is, him being tall and completely imposing in the suit also creates a very easy visual way to sell them literally looking up to him or standing head to head to him.

/Especially/ if Gunn's take of "Batman in the JL" is anything like the Justice League International comic (which is probably likely to be, since Gunn is a big fan of said comic) where he could literally just walk into a room full of all those people and he immediately intimidated them with his presence alone.

View attachment 70103

View attachment 70104

Like, come on. There's a reason Lucas used 6'6 David Prowse to sell Darth Vader. A dark, tall menacing figure is just naturally imposing and cinematically interesting.


And I get the Keaton example but:
1) The Burton movies were shot in an extremely idiosyncratic (and often limiting) way to sell that Batman. There's a 0% chance that any DCU movie gets shot like that. Also, part of the appeal of that Batman was that he was kinda supposed to be the everyman but with a weirdo twist so his height being average worked perfectly for that, but Morrison's Batman (which will be the template for this) is anything but the everyman. Two entirely different approaches to the character.
2) Michael Keaton's Batman never had to interact with a 6'4 Superman so there's that.
3) Michael Keaton was Michael Keaton and I ain't seen any modern day equivalents to Michael Keaton here so it really is a moot point. Like, I do agree that some actors can be have such a ridiculously strong screen presence to the point it could override physical aspects like height (Jake Gyllenhaal would 100% be 1000 times more intimidating than Oliver Jackson Cohen as Batman despite the latter being 6'4) but it's not like we have a single one like that in the 5'10 or shorter names we've mentioned.

This is why Keaton's Batman didn't look or feel right in The Flash most of the time he was on screen in the suit. He looks weird in the desert scenes in broad daylight.

 

[Boom]

Muschietti dropped the ball but not adapting the Kingdom Come batsuit for Keaton in The Flash.

The Burton suit is great, but it is tailor-made for Burton's aesthetic. And for better or worse, it's very much dated to the 80s/90s. Throwing it into a contemporary setting with more modern design sensibilities surrounding it did not work.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

intimidation is important with Batman to a degree, yes... since he doesn't actually have super human strength/ he does have to be a very fit and strong looking, as well a physically in order to hold his own against supervillains an secure his place among other Superheroes... but, his training/fighting style also relies on stealth, speed an agility... so, him being too lumbering/bulky isn't ideal either


as for his dynastic with Superman/ Clark their should be a notable size different between the two

(I always think back to how he was portrayed in "The Batman" series)



but, in the end, it's more important to get the actor right, then to get an actor of the right height

 

[WatchProtect]

With Corenswet being 6'4 I'd like at least a 6'2 Batman but at the end of the day as long as it's portrayed believably that's all that matters and tbh I doubt any particular short actor would do dramatically better than any particular tall actor.

 

[Invader Joker]

To me it'd be one thing if there was some pick out there under 5'11 or something that was so undeniably great and perfect for the role that'd be the only downside but as far as I've seen there literally isn't one lol

intimidation is important with Batman to a degree, yes... since he doesn't actually have super human strength/ he does have to be a very fit and strong looking, as well a physically in order to hold his own against supervillains an secure his place among other Superheroes... but, his training/fighting style also relies on stealth, speed an agility... so, him being too lumbering/bulky isn't ideal either

That can easily be sold with a tall actor as well, I don't think anyone here would have any problems buying Lee Pace, Oliver Jackson Cohen, Alexander Skarsgard, etc as agile. And if the way that Batman is stealthy is anything like the comics he'll literally just be popping in and out of the darkness so his height doesn't really matter there, I doubt this sort of take will delve deep into the logic and realism of stealth.

 

[WatchProtect]

Im definitely in the Oliver Jackson-Cohen camp

 

[SwordOfMorning]

intimidation is important with Batman to a degree, yes... since he doesn't actually have super human strength/ he does have to be a very fit and strong looking, as well a physically in order to hold his own against supervillains an secure his place among other Superheroes... but, his training/fighting style also relies on stealth, speed an agility... so, him being too lumbering/bulky isn't ideal either


as for his dynastic with Superman/ Clark their should be a notable size different between the two

(I always think back to how he was portrayed in "The Batman" series)
View attachment 70111


but, in the end, it's more important to get the actor right, then to get an actor of the right height

Superman being notably physically bigger than Batman always feels right to me.

 

[Invader Joker]

In regards to how their heights compare I personally don't really care as long as Batman isn't /too/ small compared to Superman. I guess my general preference is for them to be both the same exact height as I do think it helps with the visual of both of them being equals regardless of their differences, but I could deal with Batman being a few inches shorter if the actor is good or has a very strong screen presence.

Although I will say that to me it'd always make the most sense to be the physically biggest of the Justice League since he's the only one that actually relies on his muscles for his feats instead of superpowers, whereas it never really made sense for Superman to be that gigantic as he's typically drawn considering he can lift a mountain regardless.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I think a tad shorter for Batman is what works most for me. He already wears big ears on his head, so I like that sorta acting as the equalizer to keep Batman's profile the same height even if the person is shorter.

As for general body build, I agree Batman should usually be one of the most athletic but it doesn't have to be so clear cut that he's the #1 or most buff. Flash's powers would mean that he'd essentially have the greatest Runner's Body the world's ever seen. And I prefer Superman being bigger because of the gentle giant motif. It just...works so goddamn well. I don't care if it logically makes less sense.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

In regards to how their heights compare I personally don't really care as long as Batman isn't /too/ small compared to Superman. I guess my general preference is for them to be both the same exact height as I do think it helps with the visual of both of them being equals regardless of their differences, but I could deal with Batman being a few inches shorter if the actor is good or has a very strong screen presence.

Although I will say that to me it'd always make the most sense to be the physically biggest of the Justice League since he's the only one that actually relies on his muscles for his feats instead of superpowers, whereas it never really made sense for Superman to be that gigantic as he's typically drawn considering he can lift a mountain regardless.

Again, for me I'm not that invested in the physicality of these characters. Verisimilitude is incredibly unimportant to me, I don't need to be convinced that an on screen Batman actually looks like he could do any of the things he's shown doing - it's a plus but it doesn't really matter, I'd be perfectly happy with a Batman who had the same size and build as Keaton did in 89. But if we're gonna talk about preferences for me I think of Batman as a lithe, svelte and agile type while Superman has a bulky strongman look - something that makes him look a bit soft as Clark Kent but very imposing as Superman.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Muschietti dropped the ball but not adapting the Kingdom Come batsuit for Keaton in The Flash.

The Burton suit is great, but it is tailor-made for Burton's aesthetic. And for better or worse, it's very much dated to the 80s/90s. Throwing it into a contemporary setting with more modern design sensibilities surrounding it did not work.

This. The fact Keaton coming back wasn't enough, that they felt the need to have him in basically the exact same costume with the exact same aesthetic as the past rather than giving him a new look that fit where the character was at in his life should've been an early warning sign that the movie was just using Keaton as a Batman 89 action figure. Any Batman could have been slotted into Keaton's role - it could easily have been Kilmer if he were in better health, Clooney or (and I'm positive this was their ideal situation) Bale.

 

[Invader Joker]

This. The fact Keaton coming back wasn't enough, that they felt the need to have him in basically the exact same costume with the exact same aesthetic as the past rather than giving him a new look that fit where the character was at in his life should've been an early warning sign that the movie was just using Keaton as a Batman 89 action figure. Any Batman could have been slotted into Keaton's role - it could easily have been Kilmer if he were in better health, Clooney or (and I'm positive this was their ideal situation) Bale.

Even the little arc they tried to give him of his "retirement" was extremely, extremely pathetic. It really is amazing how much Muschietti and co dropped the ball on that.

Again, for me I'm not that invested in the physicality of these characters. Verisimilitude is incredibly unimportant to me, I don't need to be convinced that an on screen Batman actually looks like he could do any of the things he's shown doing - it's a plus but it doesn't really matter, I'd be perfectly happy with a Batman who had the same size and build as Keaton did in 89. But if we're gonna talk about preferences for me I think of Batman as a lithe, svelte and agile type while Superman has a bulky strongman look - something that makes him look a bit soft as Clark Kent but very imposing as Superman.

I will say this in regards to the "Batman shorter than Superman" concept: There is something slightly amusing to me about imagining a Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne take that shares some DNA with Greg and Tom in Succession lol. Obviously not in a mega literal sense, but the idea of Clark being this giant that still has this ridiculously bad posture and seems so harmless and awkward compared to a Bruce that's visibly domineering over their social contexts to the point he makes Clark seem small anyway is kinda funny. It'd require a kinda over the top take on both their alter egos but it is James Gunn so I could see him being into that potentially lol.

Ethan Peck and Gyllenhaal would roughly have the same height difference to Corenswet as McFadyen did to Nicholas Braun; although of the two, Gyllenhaal would be the best at playing such an abrasive take on Bruce (Not to mention his screen presence would eat Corenswet up)

It'd still not be my preference but it's a fun take I could see working.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Even the little arc they tried to give him of his "retirement" was extremely, extremely pathetic. It really is amazing how much Muschietti and co dropped the ball on that.


I will say this in regards to the "Batman shorter than Superman" concept: There is something slightly amusing to me about imagining a Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne take that shares some DNA with Greg and Tom in Succession lol. Obviously not in a mega literal sense, but the idea of Clark being this giant that still has this ridiculously bad posture and seems so harmless and awkward compared to a Bruce that's visibly domineering over their social contexts to the point he makes Clark seem small anyway is kinda funny. It'd require a kinda over the top take on both their alter egos but it is James Gunn so I could see him being into that potentially lol.

Ethan Peck and Gyllenhaal would roughly have the same height difference to Corenswet as McFadyen did to Nicholas Braun; although of the two, Gyllenhaal would be the best at playing such an abrasive take on Bruce (Not to mention his screen presence would eat Corenswet up)

It'd still not be my preference but it's a fun take I could see working.

A bit of Tom Wambsgans energy to Clark (obviously much nicer and softer) is a sort of brilliant idea in general.

Yeah, I know me being underwhelmed by Corenswet is becoming a dead horse in my posts but I do think him being wildly outshined by an actor like Gyllenhaal would be... Sort of inevitable and awkward were they to cast a performer of that stature as Bruce. I'm probably being too quick to judge, he hasn't been in a great many projects and most of them are bad (the only one I really don't like his acting in is Hollywood, best I've seen of him is Pearl) and significantly worse seeming actors have turned out to be brilliant but I do think he'd seem... Pretty dull next to a Gyllenhaal or a Gosling (not that either of them will be Batman). Which would be a shame, I think Clark should be played by the same calibre of actor they tend to cast as Batman and failing to do so has been a significant factor in the character not fully catching on with audiences.

Not to say the actors who've been cast as Superman are bad. Routh is perfectly fine, Cavill isn't mindblowing but he has a great aristocratic, aloof charm that I like a lot.

 

[Invader Joker]

A bit of Tom Wambsgans energy to Clark (obviously much nicer and softer) is a sort of brilliant idea in general.

Yeah, I know me being underwhelmed by Corenswet is becoming a dead horse in my posts but I do think him being wildly outshined by an actor like Gyllenhaal would be... Sort of inevitable and awkward were they to cast a performer of that stature as Bruce. I'm probably being too quick to judge, he hasn't been in a great many projects and most of them are bad (the only one I really don't like his acting in is Hollywood, best I've seen of him is Pearl) and significantly worse seeming actors have turned out to be brilliant but I do think he'd seem... Pretty dull next to a Gyllenhaal or a Gosling (not that either of them will be Batman). Which would be a shame, I think Clark should be played by the same calibre of actor they tend to cast as Batman and failing to do so has been a significant factor in the character not fully catching on with audiences.

Not to say the actors who've been cast as Superman are bad. Routh is perfectly fine, Cavill isn't mindblowing but he has a great aristocratic, aloof charm that I like a lot.

Wouldn't it be Greg energy to Clark? Though I guess Tom himself has Greg energy whenever he's around anyone that isn't, well, Greg lmao.

I think that Corenswet as Superman will work perfectly great. Gunn has experience working with that sort of actor and making them play the role in such a way in which you'd never imagine anyone else in the role. What he did with John Cena on Peacemaker is proof enough for me; Cena may not be the greatest actor in the world but no one else could've played Peacemaker. I imagine he'll end up creating a similar effect with Corenswet as Superman. He doesn't necessarily go for the award level talent but what he does perfectly is cast in such a way where actors fit so seemlessly into their roles they just become synonymous with it. It's part of what makes how he's gonna cast Batman a intriguing imo since I think he'll want a similar effect for Batman and doing that for Batman is tricky (unless he casts Lee Pace who thicks every box)

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Wouldn't it be Greg energy to Clark? Though I guess Tom himself has Greg energy whenever he's around anyone that isn't, well, Greg lmao.

I think that Corenswet as Superman will work perfectly great. Gunn has experience working with that sort of actor and making them play the role in such a way in which you'd never imagine anyone else in the role. What he did with John Cena on Peacemaker is proof enough for me; Cena may not be the greatest actor in the world but no one else could've played Peacemaker. I imagine he'll end up creating a similar effect with Corenswet as Superman. He doesn't necessarily go for the award level talent but what he does perfectly is cast in such a way where actors fit so seemlessly into their roles they just become synonymous with it.

Nah, the very earnest and awkward Midwestern dorkyness is the Clark vibes. Greg is a dead-eyed charmless sociopath IMO, beneath all the goofiness there's a black sucking void of immorality that is apparent in almost every scene. Obviously Clark isn't actually anything like Tom (who is also a bad person) but there's something there.

Yeah, Gunn being the one who cast him is the only reason I'm still pretty interested. Very, very strong casting instincts and I don't think he's ever gotten a performance I didn't love out of an actor. If a more generic director picked Corenswet that would be a massive red flag. Still, suspect his casting choices for the DCU leads will be way more generic than I want them to be - his supporting cast for Legacy is heartening but the main cast so far just feels like a fan cast you'd see on here. Skylar Gisondo (who I love) is so on the nose as Jimmy that it should never, ever actually happen.

 

[Invader Joker]

Nah, the very earnest and awkward Midwestern dorkyness is the Clark vibes. Greg is a dead-eyed charmless sociopath IMO, beneath all the goofiness there's a black sucking void of immorality that is apparent in almost every scene. Obviously Clark isn't actually anything like Tom (who is also a bad person) but there's something there.

Yeah, Gunn being the one who cast him is the only reason I'm still pretty interested. Very, very strong casting instincts and I don't think he's ever gotten a performance I didn't love out of an actor. If a more generic director picked Corenswet that would be a massive red flag. Still, suspect his casting choices for the DCU leads will be way more generic than I want them to be - his supporting cast for Legacy is heartening but the main cast so far just feels like a fan cast you'd see on here. Skylar Gisondo (who I love) is so on the nose as Jimmy that it should never, ever actually happen.

I've said it before but I'm 100% convinced that if Jon Hamm was 10 years younger he'd be Gunn's immediate choice for Batman. I've got no doubts about it.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I've said it before but I'm 100% convinced that if Jon Hamm was 10 years younger he'd be Gunn's immediate choice for Batman. I've got no doubts about it.

Man, a part of me is still sad he never got the chance to do it. Mid 30s-early 40s Jon Hamm as Batman would've been out of this world

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Hamm is a balance between being a legitimately great actor and a super obvious choice. It's a very specific thing but I go back and forth on whether he or Affleck would've been a better choice around when Ben was good - Hamm is an overall better actor but there's something so unique about Affleck in the role even though he was never given much to work with. There's a meta quality to Ben as Batman where his celebrity persona and the role intertwine that I just adore.

 

[BatsAndNights]

Hamm is a balance between being a legitimately great actor and a super obvious choice. It's a very specific thing but I go back and forth on whether he or Affleck would've been a better choice around when Ben was good - Hamm is an overall better actor but there's something so unique about Affleck in the role even though he was never given much to work with. There's a meta quality to Ben as Batman where his celebrity persona and the role intertwine that I just adore.

I think Affleck was better for the type of Batman Snyder wanted, this angry and bitter old homicidal vengeful being who's lost all hope and has to find his way back to who he is.

I think Hamm would've been perfect for something closer to mainstream comic Batman in his prime. Someone who's got some miles under his belt, late 30s to early 40s, who has his **** figured out after being more vengeful and angry in his earlier days. He has this quiet yet calm intensity which is exactly how I imagine prime Batman

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I've said it before but I'm 100% convinced that if Jon Hamm was 10 years younger he'd be Gunn's immediate choice for Batman. I've got no doubts about it.

Mitch Gerads (who, by the way, is a member of Tom King's circle) would be elated.

 

[BobJM]

I never could quite onboard with Hamm as Batman (or Superman). He doesn’t seem to have that physicality.

 

[Invader Joker]

He's probably really unlikely now, and to be honest he probably shouldn't be cast, but man.


Michael Fassbender could've been such an amazing Batman. Everything from The Killer looks absolutely phenomenal.

In this other thing from a few years ago he does a deep scary voice and holy hell his Batman voice would've been absolutely amazing.