Breaking News: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead! - Part 3

[Calvin]

All I can seem to find as the source of confusion is that John Brennan started talking about what happened based on fragments of info that came in at the very beginning, and was basically filling in the gaps himself. From what I can tell, he wasn't really in the loop like an Obama or a Panetta, and he also looks like a senile old man. Maybe he's the source of confusion?

 

[Kelly]

Correct, Calvin. As usual, people who already hate Obama will make up anything they can to discredit him.

The only thing I've heard, and for the life of me I can't remember who was being interviewed.....I've seen so many interviews on CNN and Fox, that I am probably getting them all mixed up.....but this was on CNN, and the person being interviewed was a past Bush person I believe, and had some "Situation Room" experience...

He said that probably any cameras there went off when they went INTO the compound, and all that the people in the situation room had was audio once the Seals entered the compound....

But, I have not heard anything from anyone as far as "YES" there were cameras, or "NO" there were not.....

Maybe I missed that....I don't know.

Most of the "right hand, not knowing the left hand is doing" seems to be in the area of WHAT THE HELL TO DO WITH PAKISTAN....

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Kel, there was a news article about the secrecy of Team-6's actions and how even the President isn't authorized to watch Team-6 procedures. I might look for it later, but I'm about to go out. Basically it confirms what Calvin said and what you heard on CNN.

 

[Kelly]

All I can seem to find as the source of confusion is that John Brennan started talking about what happened based on fragments of info that came in at the very beginning, and was basically filling in the gaps himself. From what I can tell, he wasn't really in the loop like an Obama or a Panetta, and he also looks like a senile old man. Maybe he's the source of confusion?

That guy needs to be fired....go away, and not come back....he is a moron.

 

[Kelly]

Kel, there was a news article about the secrecy of Team-6's actions and how even the President isn't authorized to watch Team-6 procedures. I might look for it later, but I'm about to go out. Basically it confirms what Calvin said and what you heard on CNN.

Excellent....

 

[bullets]

have you ever been in a fire fight...I have and most of the members of the unit couldnt agree on all the minor details

well im out...daily show is on

Not everyone sees everything . I agree.



I don't mind not knowing any details of the operation but damn let me see some pictures.

 

[Calvin]

I like how people are prioritizing their curiosity over the safety of our troops and possibly even civilians. Yeah, it'll make things tougher on our soldiers, probably create at least a few extra conflicts that might not have happened if we didn't show off gruesome photos of the spiritual leader of a bunch of pissed off terrorists, but f**k those guys, I need to satisfy my curiosity!

I'm curious too, but I wouldn't be selfish enough to think that's more important than safety.

 

[Kelly]

I don't know that it would instigate anymore than what will already come out of this as far as terrorists...

To me, I would be fine IF....Obama allowed 9/11 family members that WANT TO SEE it, allow them to see it....there will be no cameras when he meets with them and the first responders.....let them see the pic. IMO, they deserve that closure if they feel that will give it to them....give them the chance.

I don't necessarily need to see the pic, I'm just curious.

 

[Calvin]

I don't know that it would instigate anymore than what will already come out of this as far as terrorists...

To me, I would be fine IF....Obama allowed 9/11 family members that WANT TO SEE it, allow them to see it....there will be no cameras when he meets with them and the first responders.....let them see the pic. IMO, they deserve that closure if they feel that will give it to them....give them the chance.

I don't necessarily need to see the pic, I'm just curious.

You're a pretty big Gates fan, correct? If I recall correctly, he's been one of the more vehement guys saying that the release of the pictures would definitely endanger the troops, and doesn't want them released.

 

[Kelly]

Yeah, I am a Gates fan, and yes I respect his opinion.....I just don't think that it will instigate ANYMORE in this situation...mainly because...JUST THE IDEA THAT OSAMA has been killed is all the instigation they need, showing a picture isn't going to change what is already inevitable...Also, showing them to the 9/11 families and first responders is not releasing them....all they could do is describe the picture, and that has already been done....

 

[Calvin]

Yeah, I am a Gates fan, and yes I respect his opinion.....I just don't think that it will instigate ANYMORE in this situation...mainly because...JUST THE IDEA THAT OSAMA has been killed is all the instigation they need, showing a picture isn't going to change what is already inevitable...

I can see where you're coming from, but given neither of us know anywhere near as much about the situation as a guy like Gates, I'll defer to his expert opinion.

I'm not gonna get into an argument with Stephen Hawking over quantum physics based on a few days worth of articles I've read on the news.

 

[Kelly]

I added as you replied...lol

As I said before, showing it to the 9/11 families--first responders would be good enough for me.

 

[SpideyVille]

Well assuming this is what happened based on what I've been hearing lately, info on Osama was found through torture and then Obama sent troops without a warrant into Pakistan without informing Pakistan until the very end, with the order to kill, not capture, Osama, but ended up capturing him and then executing him on the spot.

I'm not saying that is or isn't what happened, but if it is indeed what happened, and the White House is slowly revealing this little by little, would the US be completely in the wrong by the way this was carried out?

 

[Kelly]

In a word?


yes...


But, ya know what.....it makes me respect Obama even more for the decision making in this....its about time he told UN ....."**** you, we needed to do this, and guess what....we did."

 

[redfirebird2008]

I'm not saying that is or isn't what happened, but if it is indeed what happened, and the White House is slowly revealing this little by little, would the US be completely in the wrong by the way this was carried out?

Hell no.

 

[Yurka]

Everything up until his execution I believe would be "legal" i.e. no serious repercussions would come from them. I know they had orders to kill, but theres a difference between being shot in the head while putting up a fight and being executed.

 

[Calvin]

Well assuming this is what happened based on what I've been hearing lately, info on Osama was found through torture and then Obama sent troops without a warrant into Pakistan without informing Pakistan until the very end, with the order to kill, not capture, Osama, but ended up capturing him and then executing him on the spot.

I'm not saying that is or isn't what happened, but if it is indeed what happened, and the White House is slowly revealing this little by little, would the US be completely in the wrong by the way this was carried out?

Pretty much all reports say that they were sent with permission to kill, but the first goal was to capture, barring any indication that he wouldn't surrender. The Seals say he made movements that indicated to them that he wasn't surrendering, and that there was a chance he could go for a weapon or have a concealed weapon. Reports from the operation say there were weapons in his room.

Also, opinions and accounts are extremely mixed on whether the key info came during standard interrogation, or enhanced. It's been a 50/50 split from what I can tell where the key intel came from.

 

[Kelly]

Everything up until his execution I believe would be "legal" i.e. no serious repercussions would come from them. I know they had orders to kill, but theres a difference between being shot in the head while putting up a fight and being executed.

No, going into a sovereign country in a military manner will get them into trouble....how much remains to be seen.....but it will be brought up.

 

[SpideyVille]

In a word?


yes...


But, ya know what.....it makes me respect Obama even more for the decision making in this....its about time he told UN ....."**** you, we needed to do this, and guess what....we did."

I don't disagree with this. In fact, I think that if he were to break the rules and go after someone, that at least he did it involving someone big as opposed to some random middle tier guy.

But at the same time, doesn't the US lose some creditability around the world by doing this in an "unfair" way? Sure we scored the big kill, but had this mission failed on any level, whether our troops got captured, or our intel was wrong and Osama wasn't really there or wasn't there at the moment, I think it would really really really make us look bad.

 

[Kelly]

I don't disagree with this. In fact, I think that if he were to break the rules and go after someone, that at least he did it involving someone big as opposed to some random middle tier guy.

But at the same time, doesn't the US lose some creditability around the world by doing this in an "unfair" way? Sure we scored the big kill, but had this mission failed on any level, whether our troops got captured, or our intel was wrong and Osama wasn't really there or wasn't there at the moment, I think it would really really really make us look bad.

Just as someone said earlier, had this gone sour....Palin would be able to win the 2012 election....

As far as losing credibility? Not with countries that matter....

 

[bullets]

I like how people are prioritizing their curiosity over the safety of our troops and possibly even civilians. Yeah, it'll make things tougher on our soldiers, probably create at least a few extra conflicts that might not have happened if we didn't show off gruesome photos of the spiritual leader of a bunch of pissed off terrorists, but f**k those guys, I need to satisfy my curiosity!

I'm curious too, but I wouldn't be selfish enough to think that's more important than safety.

Yeah killing him and dumping his body in the ocean was kinda bad but those pics , man that would really push people over the edge..

 

[SpideyVille]

Everything up until his execution I believe would be "legal" i.e. no serious repercussions would come from them. I know they had orders to kill, but theres a difference between being shot in the head while putting up a fight and being executed.

Yeah I think the recent reports of a possible capture and execution would be the biggest blow here, not just in terms of playing within the rules, but also in terms of reason for retaliation since it makes it look like we not only wanted him dead, but wanted him to die in a worse way with him being completely defenseless.

 

[Calvin]

In a word?


yes...


But, ya know what.....it makes me respect Obama even more for the decision making in this....its about time he told UN ....."**** you, we needed to do this, and guess what....we did."

I'm with you on that. I believe the Seals' and Panetta's account that Osama was not in surrender mode however. Given his history, I would very easily count anything short of putting his hands up and laying on his stomach while wearing clothes I was sure didn't conceal anything (which is a tall order), as not being sure he's going to surrender. Hell, given the conditions, for the safety of the shooter and his fellow soldiers in the room, I'm not sure there's any way you could be sure he wouldn't do something, and I'd think he'd be right to even interpret a facial expression as enough cause to shoot the guy just to be sure.

But, even if it was totally an execution and they somehow knew he wasn't going to do anything (which I still think is impossible to know, especially since he's said he'd never surrender), I'm fine with that too. We needed him taken out for completely reasonable nationalistic interests, and I'm glad we did.

"Hey, Osama. Did you watch Regis this morning?"

Saw that on a couple forums, seems pretty appropriate to me (especially since I saw that episode saturday!)

 

[Kelly]

The computer generated images keep going through my mind....

They have to shoot through a brick wall that was made to look like a doorway to get to his room so you know damn good and well he knew they were coming.....when they get to his room, Kids come running out FIRST....then 2 women....and then Bin Laden....WHAT A PIECE OF CHICKEN ****....

 

[redfirebird2008]

I don't disagree with this. In fact, I think that if he were to break the rules and go after someone, that at least he did it involving someone big as opposed to some random middle tier guy.

But at the same time, doesn't the US lose some creditability around the world by doing this in an "unfair" way? Sure we scored the big kill, but had this mission failed on any level, whether our troops got captured, or our intel was wrong and Osama wasn't really there or wasn't there at the moment, I think it would really really really make us look bad.

Credibility around the world? Who gives a crap? The rest of the world can whine as much as they want, but at the end of the day the U.S. is the only power that is willing to put our money where our mouth is on some pretty serious security issues for the entire world. China has built their economy on the back of slave labor in their own country and trading with the likes of Iran. China might be an economic superpower, but they are morally bankrupt and they will never stand up and say "enough is enough" against evil regimes. Do we really give a crap what the likes of France think when we had to rescue them from Hitler?