BTAS Batman or Nolanverse Batman?

[Mutante]

Well yeah, but it gets a pass because it's animation. Animation from the 90s.

People can like BTAS all they want. I do too. But to say it is better written than Nolan´s stuff? C´mon, give me a break. It´s not even close.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Chances are almost every single person who is an adult today and is a fan of BTAS, is because they were little kids when they first saw the show. So nostalgia plays a huge part.

In some cases, yes. But most of the people I know who like BTAS saw it when they were adults or teens.

Batman (1989) is my favorite live action movie, but BTAS' Batman is the definitive Batman in my eyes. At least they weren't ashamed of the source material.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Yet, the show has stuff that is 10 times more ridiculous than ANYTHING we saw in Batman & Robin. If any Batman movie had some of the scenes this show has, it would instatly be considered the worst movie ever.

Like what?

Batman: Mask of the Phantasm is cosidered one of the best Batman-movies.

 

[The Joker]

At least they weren't ashamed of the source material.

Who are you implying was?

 

[Mutante]

Like what?

If you can´t think of anything, maybe you should rewatch the show.

How about hummm....how about Joker escaping from AA on a flying christmas tree? Is that good writing? Is that cool? Is that better than what Nolan gave us? And how is that any different from the silliness in Batman & Robin and Batman 1966? The only difference is that BTAS has a darker tone. That´s about it.

I´m as big of a fan of BTAS as any of you. In fact, i still watch it everyday. That´s how much of a fan i am. But i think we should give credit where credit is due and not pretend things are something they´re not just because they´re a big part of our childhood.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

If you can´t think of anything, maybe you should rewatch the show.

How about hummm....how about Joker escaping from AA on a flying christmas tree? Is that good writing? Is that cool?

I'm currently rewatching it, and I can't see what's ridiculous about it. It's not "grimdark" with blood, sex and gore like the modern comic books, but that's a good thing. Stuff like that isn't really adult, it's something a fifteen year old boy would write.

The Joker has always been silly and over-the-top. You would expect him to do something crazy like that.

 

[shauner111]

People can like BTAS all they want. I do too. But to say it is better written than Nolan´s stuff? C´mon, give me a break. It´s not even close.

Id have to agree.

In some cases, yes. But most of the people I know who like BTAS saw it when they were adults or teens.

Batman (1989) is my favorite live action movie, but BTAS' Batman is the definitive Batman in my eyes. At least they weren't ashamed of the source material.

Im not sure if anybody was "ashamed" of the source material. And even if so, just because they embrace the source material, doesnt mean it's a guarantee of quality. That's not why i enjoy BTAS. I enjoy it because of the voice acting, the animation, and some of the stories.

 

[georgec]

Different mediums, different styles of storytelling.

 

[Mutante]

The Joker has always been silly and over-the-top. You would expect him to do something crazy like that.

Dude, if ANY CHARACTER in ANY Batman movie escaped from AA on a flying christmas tree, the movie would be hated to death. If you can´t see what´s ridiculous about it, then there is not much i can tell you.

And if that´s good writing, then i see no reason to consider Batman & Robin a bad movie.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Dude, if ANY CHARACTER in ANY Batman movie escaped from AA on a flying christmas tree, the movie would be hated to death. If you can´t see what´s ridiculous about it, then there is not much i can tell you.

And if that´s good writing, then i see no reason to consider Batman & Robin a bad movie.

I don't think so, not if they made a movie that was more like the comic books of the 70's/80's or the early 90's (you know, when Batman comics were good). Of course, it wouldn't work in the Nolanverse, but that's because it's supposed to be "realistic". It depends on the movie.

Batman and Robin is entertaining enough

 

[Mutante]

Batman and Robin is entertaining enough

But i wouldn´t call it better written than TDK. Same goes for BTAS

I don't think so, not if they made a movie that was more like the comic books

It would be silly no matter what and would be aimed for kids. I fail to see how different it would be from Batman & Robin.

 

[regwec]

Dude, if ANY CHARACTER in ANY Batman movie escaped from AA on a flying christmas tree, the movie would be hated to death. If you can´t see what´s ridiculous about it, then there is not much i can tell you.

And if that´s good writing, then i see no reason to consider Batman & Robin a bad movie.

Are you suggesting that, if something is surreal, it cannot be well written?

 

[Mutante]

Are you suggesting that, if something is surreal, it cannot be well written?

No. TDK is surreal. I´m suggesting that a man flying grabbed to a christmas tree isn´t the best possible take we can have on a character. It´s just an easy, childish and cheap way to make something happen.

 

[regwec]

It isn't a "take on a character". It is just something that the character did.

Would The Joker not escape from Arkham on a rocket-powered Christmas tree, if he could? Isn't that the kind of thing he probably would do, if he could?

 

[Mutante]

Would The Joker not escape from Arkham on a rocket-powered Christmas tree, if he could? Isn't that the kind of thing he probably would do, if he could?

That´s the kind of thing most criminals would do if they could. It´s the fact that he could escape that way that makes it silly and not worth of being considered "the best possible thing".

It seems that when we talk about comics and cartoons expectations drop quite a bit. Everything is forgivable. The most stupid thing on the face of the planet is considered "great".

 

[regwec]

Far from it, but you have to understand that different narratives can exude different tones, but still be "good" on their own terms. The Godfather and Toy Story are both good films, but have a very different tone. Comparing their quality by their content would be silly, because while it would rightly be said that a talking action figure would have no place in The Godfather, it is entirely fitting for the premise and narrative tone of Toy Story.

BTAS tried to embrace almost the whole spectrum of Batman comics, from the rather bleak stuff like Two Face's origin, to the more goofy elements like the Arkham break-out you describe. It isn't invalid for that reason.

 

[Mutante]

Far from it, but you have to understand that different narratives can exude different tones, but still be "good" on their own terms. The Godfather and Toy Story are both good films, but have a very different tone. Comparing their quality by their content would be silly, because while it would rightly be said that a talking action figure would have no place in The Godfather, it is entirely fitting for the premise and narrative tone of Toy Story.

BTAS tried to embrace almost the whole spectrum of Batman comics, from the rather bleak stuff like Two Face's origin, to the more goofy elements like the Arkham break-out you describe. It isn't invalid for that reason.

I wouldn´t mind that cartoons and comics didn´t have stupid goofy moments. To me they´re just bad decisions. I don´t think that the Joker escaping in a less silly way would make the show any worse. Quite the contrary. But it is probably easier to just come up with a stupid idea than think of something a little more intelligent and realistic.

 

[regwec]

Would it? Is it a lesser work of imagination to devise an insane, Christmas themed escape sequence than it is to simply have The Joker climb out of the toilet window?

Why do you equate anything that is not "realistic" with "stupidity"? Do you feel that comicbooks and their derivative movies are the most suitable playground for someone of such a persuasion?

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Dude, if ANY CHARACTER in ANY Batman movie escaped from AA on a flying christmas tree, the movie would be hated to death. If you can´t see what´s ridiculous about it, then there is not much i can tell you.

And if that´s good writing, then i see no reason to consider Batman & Robin a bad movie.

This. All those guys who fell from far above and fell conveniently on tarps, because no one could die. Yes, it was for kids and stuff, but that keeps me from liking it more than Nolan's take (although I wasn't a fan from BB either).

I like BTAS, but was never a real fan of it. The design was too simple and lacking - hey, Japanese animation had far more complex designs with better animation years and tears before this cartoon - at some point they had Joker without lips and with black eyeballs. Not my thing.

About BMOTP, I've said plenty about it but I didn't like much the inclusion of Andrea as a reason why Bruce wouldn't-then-would become Batman. And the animation wasn't much better than in the series, which was expected (from me, of course).

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

How can anyone say something like that about BTAS! It's too much!

*faints and falls down on couch*

 

[Mutante]

Would it? Is it a lesser work of imagination to devise an insane, Christmas themed escape sequence than it is to simply have The Joker climb out of the toilet window?

It´s more difficult to come up with a rational solution to a complicated problem. That´s why a flying christmas tree is an easy way out.

Why do you equate anything that is not "realistic" with "stupidity"?

I don´t. I equate being stupid and goofy with stupidity TDK is not realistic but manages not to be as silly as BTAS.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

It´s more difficult to come up with a rational solution to a complicated problem. That´s why a flying christmas tree is an easy way out.

He could just stab all of the guards (and inmates) to death.

 

[Mutante]

He could just stab all of the guards (and inmates) to death.

It would also be stupid given the fact that he is outnumbered. But it would still be better than a flying christmas tree.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

It would also be stupid given the fact that he is outnumbered. But it would still be better than a flying christmas tree.

What if he recruited other inmates?

 

[regwec]

It´s more difficult to come up with a rational solution to a complicated problem. That´s why a flying christmas tree is an easy way out.

Was the situation complicated? From the narrative's perspective, The Joker needed to get away from Arkham. The writers could have had him jump out of a window, or have used the old cliche of hiding in the laundry. Neither of those things would have required a great deal more thought than the Christmas tree.

We are also overlooking the fact that it was a Christmas themed episode. Does that not invite a bit of seasonal buffoonery?

I don´t. I equate being stupid and goofy with stupidity TDK is not realistic but manages not to be as silly as BTAS.

So you equate "stupid" with "stupidity", and also "goofy" and "silly" with "stupidity".

We're not getting very far, are we?