BTAS Batman or Nolanverse Batman?

[Mutante]

Was the situation complicated? From the narrative's perspective, The Joker needed to get away from Arkham. The writers could have had him jump out of a window, or have used the old cliche of hiding in the laundry. Neither of those things would have required a great deal more thought than the Christmas tree.

We are also overlooking the fact that it was a Christmas themed episode. Does that not invite a bit of seasonal buffoonery?

It´s not supposed to be easy to escape from AA. Making it that way is, by itself, a poor writing decision.

 

[regwec]

No, it answered the requirement of the story to have The Joker escape the Asylum within the first scene of the (what, 25 minute?) episode.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

It´s not supposed to be easy to escape from AA. Making it that way is, by itself, a poor writing decision.

It isn't easy. But it helps if you have a rockett:

 

[Mutante]

No, it answered the requirement of the story to have The Joker escape the Asylum within the first scene

If your story requires to have an extremely dangerous criminal to easily escape from a place that should have top security, that makes your story poorly written. Wich is understandable, since we´re talking about something designed to entertain mostly kids, and kids forgive almost anything.

 

[regwec]

And teenage boys lap up anything that is pseudo-"gritty".

Are you saying that a 25 minute story in which The Joker escapes from Arkham at the start should simply not be told?

 

[Mutante]

Are you saying that a 25 minute story in which The Joker escapes from Arkham at the start should simply not be told

Should simply not be considered the best example of good writing.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

And teenage boys lap up anything that is pseudo-"gritty".

Teenage 45 year olds.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Should simply not be considered the best example of good writing.

How would you do it?

 

[regwec]

Should simply not be considered the best example of good writing.

That's like saying that a bridge built over a river is not the best engineering- it is more economical to lay a road that runs alongside.

 

[Mutante]

That's like saying that a bridge built over a river is not the best engineering- it is more economical to lay a road that runs alongside.

Listen: When i arrived to this thread people were talking about BTAS like if it was a much better example of good writing than TDK trilogy. I simply pointed out how ridiculous the writing of that show got from time to time, and if any movie had some of that goofy stuff, it would not be considered good by any means.

 

[regwec]

Well, I am countering that by reflecting that this would depend on the tone of the movie in question, and that the tone inherent in BTAS combined with its remit meant that some stuff was permissable therein that would have been incongruous in TDK.

 

[Kane52630]

If you can´t think of anything, maybe you should rewatch the show.

How about hummm....how about Joker escaping from AA on a flying christmas tree? Is that good writing? Is that cool? Is that better than what Nolan gave us? And how is that any different from the silliness in Batman & Robin and Batman 1966? The only difference is that BTAS has a darker tone. That´s about it.

As oppose to the Joker's convenient and pretty much impossible escape from Gotham PD in TDK?

 

[Mutante]

Well, I am countering that by reflecting that this would depend on the tone of the movie in question, and that the tone inherent in BTAS

You can have a more light, colorful and unrealistic tone without bad storytelling.

It bothers me to see a human flying grabbed to a rocket without dying or making everything explode right away. It lacks logic.

 

[Mutante]

As oppose to the Joker's convenient and pretty much impossible escape from Gotham PD in TDK

You would probably have been more happy if he had escaped grabbed to a christmas tree. That would have made it a better movie.

 

[regwec]

You can have a more light, colorful and unrealistic tone without bad storytelling.

It bothers me to see a human flying grabbed to a rocket without dying or making everything explode right away. It lacks logic.

It's surrealism. Do you honestly think that the writers on BTAS sat around the story boards and decided that The Joker needed to escape from Arkham in a "realistic" way, and that a flying Christmas tree was the way to do it?

Or did they realise that, as they were introducing The Joker in a Christmas episode, it would be effective to show him escaping Arkham in a way that was zany and clownish in keeping with the character, while also reveling in the Christmas theme?

Let me ask you: Shakespeare's King John is a more realistic and less "silly" play than The Tempest. Does that mean that it is better?

 

[Kane52630]

You would probably have been more happy if he had escaped grabbed to a christmas tree. That would have made it a better movie.

It would definitely make for a better and real film.

 

[Mutante]

It's surrealism. Do you honestly think that the writers on BTAS sat around the story boards and decided that The Joker needed to escape from Arkham in a "realistic" way, and that a flying Christmas tree was the way to do it?

They could have sat around the story boards and decided to write something less silly. Coherence can also be applied taking into account that universe´s laws.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Looking forward to a realistic drama-version of Star Wars that's about two astronauts (father and son) on a space shuttle.

Or Spider-Man: Peter Parker is just regular a guy taking pictures of spiders. One day a venomous spider bites him, and young Peter ends up at the hospital. His doctor Otto is in reality a crazy strangler the media dubs "The Octopus". What will kill him first? The bite, or the evil doctor?

 

[regwec]

If you're just going to revert to repeating the words "silly" and "goofy", without any substantiation or reflection, I feel entitled to conclude that you haven't really thought about this.

 

[Kane52630]

Looking forward to a realistic drama-version of Star Wars that's about two astronauts (father and son) on a space shuttle.

Or Spider-Man: Peter Parker is just regular a guy taking pictures of spiders. One day a venomous spider bites him, and young Peter ends up at the hospital. His doctor Otto is in reality a crazy strangler the media dubs "The Octopus". What will kill him first? The bite, or the evil doctor?

Teh realism! It's so real and isms!

 

[Mutante]

If you're just going to revert to repeating the words "silly" and "goofy", without any substantiation or reflection, I feel entitled to conclude that you haven't really thought about this.

Ok, without using the word s*lly:

I think that a man escaping grabbed to a rocket christmas tree is a bad way of storytelling. Especially in a universe that takes into account it´s characters human limitations. Regardless the medium, it makes it incoherent and hard to swallow. Plus, it looks pathetic. If this isn´t bad writing, nothing is. It might be entertaining, but it doesn´t take away it´s BIG flaws.

 

[regwec]

If it is entertaining, and its purpose is to entertain, is it bad writing?

The character Clayface is incompatible with "human limitations". Should he be dropped from the roster of Batman's villains?

The same could be asked of TDK's Two Face, who could not have plausibly have survived his injuries.

 

[Mutante]

If it is entertaining, and its purpose is to entertain, is it bad writing?

Because the show has some very good moments and the entertainment value of something isn´t purely determined by the quality of the writing. There are movies that aren´t particularly well written but can be entertaining because of some of it´s elements. But that doesn´t mean i can´t look at it and think "ok, this has a lot of problems".

BTW, we´re not debating if something is or not entertaining. We´re comparing the Nolanverse to BTAS.

 

[Mutante]

The character Clayface is incompatible with "human limitations". Should he be dropped from the roster of Batman's villains?

I couldn´t care less. I don´t like the character. But he suffered a mutation, right? He is no longer a simple human that, all of the sudden, can´t die. Is Joker a super human too? If he isn´t..well...bad writing...

 

[regwec]

But "good" writing, surely, is writing that is efficiently employed to meet its purpose. If we are saying that the sequence is question was supposed to entertain, and that was entertaining, I don't understand why you consider it to be "bad writing".