Burton's Batman didn't kill anyone.

[Numez]

The surreal and perhaps supernatural nature of Burton's Batman leads me to believe that Batman didn't kill anyone. If the Burton films were striving to for realism like Nolan's films were, then I would agree that he killed people. But it was striving for a more fantastical setting, so I'm going to assume that he didn't kill anyone.

 

[Gilpesh]

:facepalm

 

[Numez]

:facepalm

I fail to see how this is face-palm worry. I mean, I guess you could say that he killed someone, but why would you? It was all ambiguous.

 

[The Joker]

This thread cannot possibly be serious. Batman bombed Axis Chemicals with a bunch of Joker's men inside. Batman deliberately gunned down a bunch of the Joker's thugs using the Batwing's weapons [and attempted to kill Joker as well]. He tossed one down the bell tower.

In Returns, he set one of the Red Triangle gang on fire using the Batmobile's turbine. He attached a bomb to the big strongman.

 

[Numez]

But there's a certain ambiguity to these actions. Burton's Bat universe isn't rooted in the same reality as Nolan's. Think about it, you have a small child somehow surviving in a sewer in the middle of winter, is raised by penguins and turn into the Penguin. Selina is shot in the head, falls out of a skyscraper, is licked by some cats and turns into Catwoman. By the movie's own logic, which owes more to fairytales than to reality, the guy who fell into the sewer with a "bomb" stuck to his chest probably turned into a Ninja Turtle or Killer Croc. The explosion itself didn't even look particularly powerful.

 

[The Joker]

But there's a certain ambiguity to these actions. Burton's Bat universe isn't rooted in the same reality as Nolan's. Think about it, you have a small child somehow surviving in a sewer in the middle of winter, is raised by penguins and turn into the Penguin. Selina is shot in the head, falls out of a skyscraper, is licked by some cats and turns into Catwoman. By the movie's own logic, which owes more to fairytales than to reality, the guy who fell into the sewer with a "bomb" stuck to his chest probably turned into a Ninja Turtle or Killer Croc. The explosion itself didn't even look particularly powerful.

No offence, but that is the most ludicrous arguement I've ever heard in my life. There was nothing ambiguous about those deaths. Catwoman's immortality because she was revived by cats, or Penguin being rescued by the penguins in the sewer has no bearing over it. Same as Joker surviving the fall into the chemicals.

If you seriously believe all those aformentioned murders somehow cheated death every time, then you're seriously deluding yourself.

Batman killed people in the Burton movies. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. It's based off the early years of Batman's creation in the comics when he killed criminals.

 

[Numez]

What I'm saying is that the movie didn't in any way shape or form indicate that anyone was actually killed, and that the un-reality of Burton's universe can be used to explain why. Traditionally, when you're dealing with this sort of fantasy reality, you need an on-screen death for it to matter.

 

[maveholic31]

No offence, but that is the most ludicrous arguement I've ever heard in my life. There was nothing ambiguous about those deaths. Catwoman's immortality because she was revived by cats, or Penguin being rescued by the penguins in the sewer has no bearing over it. Same as Joker surviving the fall into the chemicals.

If you seriously believe all those aformentioned murders somehow cheated death every time, then you're seriously deluding yourself.

Batman killed people in the Burton movies. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. It's based off the early years of Batman's creation in the comics when he killed criminals.

I agree with this 100%

Numez, it's not up in the air for debate... if you saw the scenes Batman does kill. I think in that case it fits his persona as Joker pointed out that Batman killed in the early years in the comics and while this is true it was Earth 2 Batman that killed which fits Michael Keaton's version of the Batman perfectly.

Nolan's Batman clearly is the current representation of Batman, the New World Batman (from 'Year One' on)

 

[El Payaso]

I agree with this 100%

Numez, it's not up in the air for debate... if you saw the scenes Batman does kill.

lol calm down maveholic31, he's just expressing opinions.

 

[Numez]

lol calm down maveholic31, he's just expressing opinions.

Nah, it's cool. We're all cool. Not everyone is going to agree.

 

[Numez]

What I don't get is why Burton's Batman gets ragged on for doing what he did, but it's okay if Paul Dini's Batman can just knock Joker off of a train and into a smokestack. Talk about your double standards.

 

[cryptic name]

The surreal and perhaps supernatural nature of Burton's Batman leads me to believe that Batman didn't kill anyone. If the Burton films were striving to for realism like Nolan's films were, then I would agree that he killed people. But it was striving for a more fantastical setting, so I'm going to assume that he didn't kill anyone.

He strapped dynamite to a clown. The clown died.

 

[Numez]

He strapped dynamite to a clown. The clown died.

Burton's films are surreal, and it was meant to be taken as a dark joke. The clown lived. That was Burton's intention.

 

[Morg]

Burton's films are surreal, and it was meant to be taken as a dark joke. The clown lived. That was Burton's intention.

No he didn't, I seen that scene enough times, he's dead

 

[cryptic name]

Burton's films are surreal, and it was meant to be taken as a dark joke. The clown lived. That was Burton's intention.

Burton's Batman films are expressionistic. I really doubt he lived, that doesn't mean its not darkly funny, because it is. But he died.

 

[Numez]

No he didn't, I seen that scene enough times, he's dead

No way, man. We didn't even see the body.

 

[El Payaso]

He strapped dynamite to a clown. The clown died.

It was a clown??? I thought it was the strongman.

 

[Morg]

No way, man. We didn't even see the body.

*sighs* whatever dude, you won't listen

 

[Bathead]

It seems kind of pointless to post here as Numez will brook no disagreement, even though he is the only one with such an "opinion" (definitely not a fact)

 

[Bathead]

Burton's films are surreal, and it was meant to be taken as a dark joke. The clown lived. That was Burton's intention.

Can you show us to a link that quotes Burton as saying so? Or can you read his mind? You're just guessing with nothing to back up your claims.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

In situations like these, when NONE of us know the facts (the only way to get the facts would be to actually ask Burton) we can only go by what the evidence shows.

ALL evidence points to those guys being brown bread. There is NO evidence that points to the contrary. It really is as simple as that. Case closed.

 

[blackkeno]

I saw the Burton films at least 30 times between them, and it never occured to me that Batman killed anyone. It looked to me like it was always meant to be ambiguous. Although I think the points made here arguing for those deaths are pretty compelling, I don't think the evidence is 100% conclusive. First, as noted, we never see the body of someone dead. Second, if Batman was killing people, it's odd that nobody (Gordon, Dent, Vale, Knox, the News castors, or Alfred) ever mentions it.

 

[El Payaso]

I saw the Burton films at least 30 times between them, and it never occured to me that Batman killed anyone. It looked to me like it was always meant to be ambiguous. Although I think the points made here arguing for those deaths are pretty compelling, I don't think the evidence is 100% conclusive. First, as noted, we never see the body of someone dead. Second, if Batman was killing people, it's odd that nobody (Gordon, Dent, Vale, Knox, the News castors, or Alfred) ever mentions it.

I think Gotham authorities were happy about having some major criminals erased forever. And the only ones that Batman killed were those thugs at Axis chemicals and the strongman (aka clown). It seems to me there's no physical evidence that attach Batman directly to those deaths.

 

[The Joker]

I saw the Burton films at least 30 times between them, and it never occured to me that Batman killed anyone.

So what did you think happened to all the guys in Axis Chemicals when Batman blew it up? Or the guy he tossed down the bell tower? Or the henchmen he riddled with bullets using the Batwings machine guns etc?

You thought they all got up and walked away like Jason Voorhees or Michael Myers?

Although I think the points made here arguing for those deaths are pretty compelling, I don't think the evidence is 100% conclusive.

When I see people being riddled with bullets, or tossed down a bell tower, I don't need the movie to insult my intelligence by spelling it out in 50 foot high letters that they were killed.

I'm open to the possibility that some of the people, like maybe some of the henchmen in Axis may have survived. That may be possible. Not likely considering he blew up the whole damn building, but it's possible some of them survived.

But the thread starter is making the ludicrous claim that Batman never killed anyone in the Burton movies. And that is simply not true.

First, as noted, we never see the body of someone dead. Second, if Batman was killing people, it's odd that nobody (Gordon, Dent, Vale, Knox, the News castors, or Alfred) ever mentions it.

I love the Burton Batman movies, I really do. But the Gotham authorities in Burton's movies are the most incompetent idiots ever.

The Joker announces on TV that he will be at the 200th anniversary festival at midnight, and there's not one single Cop there to arrest him. The Penguin announces at Schreck's party that he's sending his men all over town to kidnap children, and there's not a sign of a Cop anywhere to intercept the Circus train, but Batman managed to leave the party and go home, get changed into his costume, and then go out and find them and stop them.

So Batman's murder of various enemies is hardly going to cause an outcry. Especially when all of them, except for the clown that was set on fire by the Batmobile's turbine, were not done in front of witnesses. And there was so much panic in the Red Triangle circus gang attack, that nobody probably even noticed Batman torching that clown.

 

[El Payaso]

So Batman's murder of various enemies is hardly going to cause an outcry. Especially when all of them, except for the clown that was set on fire by the Batmobile's turbine, were not done in front of witnesses. And there was so much panic in the Red Triangle circus gang attack, that nobody probably even noticed Batman torching that clown.

I have to disagree with you my friend but only in this specific point. That flame-thrower could perfectly survive that, and in this case I see no evidence of him being killed. The last micresecond you see him it looks like he's throwing himself to the floor - which is a natural thing to do - and being the whole street with a thick layer of snow I'd say he made it.