Butler Scene: not as bad after all??

[sasaesq]

I, like many, initially thought the Butler Scene came out of nowhere. Considering 5 years passed between SM1 in 2002 & SM3 in 2007, I logically asked myself the question: Why didn't Bernard tell Harry earlier that Norman was killed "by his own hand"?

However, upon reconsideration, by the time SM3 starts, for all we know, Peter may still be a college Freshman, meaning that in "Spiderman movie time", maybe less than a year passed b/t Norman's death & Harry learninig the truth. Maybe only six months, or less?

I don't recall SM2 or SM3 giving any indication of the how much time had passed since the end of the previous movie.

So maybe the Butler's delay in telling Harry wasn't as long of a time period as we all first thought, and therefore maybe the scene isn't so bad after all. That's my spin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on my time hypothesis.

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

my question is how would he know that he died "by his own hand"? when peter could have held the glider in his hands and stabbed him with it.

he couldn't, the scene was thrown in there to get harry to go help peter.

 

[StorminNorman]

...

why would you waist time trying to defend this scene?

 

[arachnid-guy]

I, like many, initially thought the Butler Scene came out of nowhere. Considering 5 years passed between SM1 in 2002 & SM3 in 2007, I logically asked myself the question: Why didn't Bernard tell Harry earlier that Norman was killed "by his own hand"?

However, upon reconsideration, by the time SM3 starts, for all we know, Peter may still be a college Freshman, meaning that in "Spiderman movie time", maybe less than a year passed b/t Norman's death & Harry learninig the truth. Maybe only six months, or less?

I don't recall SM2 or SM3 giving any indication of the how much time had passed since the end of the previous movie.

So maybe the Butler's delay in telling Harry wasn't as long of a time period as we all first thought, and therefore maybe the scene isn't so bad after all. That's my spin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on my time hypothesis.

Read this, second paragraph.

 

[Batman137]

I love the music in this scene;]

 

[spida-man]

...

why would you waist time trying to defend this scene?

why would ppl waste time complaining about a year old movie?????

 

[Venom 1988]

why would ppl waste time complaining about a year old movie?????

Does it really surprise you? People complain about movies all the time, regardless of how new or old it is. A mediocre movie then is still a mediocre movie now.

 

[Ziggyman]

The butler scene was horrible...I was like...

How did Alfred get in here?

 

[spida-man]

Does it really surprise you? People complain about movies all the time, regardless of how new or old it is. A mediocre movie then is still a mediocre movie now.

I know but it seems like ppl r going overboard with SM3 ppl are acting like it was the worst movie ever when it wasn't. it was actually a pretty good movie. just because somethings were bad doesn't mean the entire movie sucked, just because it might not have been as good as sm2 doesn't mean it sucks. ppl complained way too much about this movie and it's getting annoying

 

[Venom 1988]

I know but it seems like ppl r going overboard with SM3 ppl are acting like it was the worst movie ever when it wasn't. it was actually a pretty good movie. just because somethings were bad doesn't mean the entire movie sucked, just because it might not have been as good as sm2 doesn't mean it sucks. ppl complained way too much about this movie and it's getting annoying

Just don't click on the threads then, it will hurt less for your head.

 

[The_Walker]

Hum...You know Spider-Man 2's story appens 2 years after Spider-Man's, right? Aunt May mention it's been 2 years since Ben's death in SM2.
And as arachnid-guy said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-man_2
second paragraph.

Closed, next!

 

[Styleshift]

I know but it seems like ppl r going overboard with SM3 ppl are acting like it was the worst movie ever when it wasn't. it was actually a pretty good movie. just because somethings were bad doesn't mean the entire movie sucked, just because it might not have been as good as sm2 doesn't mean it sucks. ppl complained way too much about this movie and it's getting annoying

I'll explain it to you.

When people hype something especially for a LONG TIME.
when it has previous sucessful installments that were released and it takes a step backwards or ends up not being as good as the previous installments.

people will rant because they will have the feeling of being "cheated"

SM3 was a dissapointment.

lets take SM3 THE GAME for an example.

They have DEFINITELY taken a step backwards from Ultimate Spider-man and SM2 in terms of story and gameplay. thats why people complain about it. expecially since by the time SM3 was released both of those games can be bought for less than sm3 combined.

same thing with the movie.
it just wasn't as good as the first 2 and people were let down big time.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

Hum...You know Spider-Man 2's story appens 2 years after Spider-Man's, right? Aunt May mention it's been 2 years since Ben's death in SM2.

2 years since Ben die
but, the first movie took place over the span of atleast 6-7 months (after Ben die)
so, in spider-man 2, its only been a year in half (give or take), since Norman died (which doesn’t really change anything)

just saying


but, the time that past is not what matters, the Butler, kept the secret as a sign of respect for his former employer

he only speak up once he saw Harry acting on his obsessions, and paranoid delusions about spider-man killing his father to the point that it put his own life and others in danger

up until that point he also probably didn’t want Harry to know that his father was the Green Goblin
(and until the events at the end of spider-man 2 he didn’t know)

Once the butler realized he found out, during the events of 3, there was no reason to keep the secret, anymore

 

[JaD]

I can see what your trying to get at with the whole situation with the butler not telling Harry. The way I look at it, the whole time after S1 Harry is simply filled with hate towards someone and isn't willing to care what anyone says, he wants Spidey dead. The bottom line is that if Harry found out that GG died by his own hand we wouldn't have a possibility of another Goblin. Seems pretty logical to keep it a secret even if life would have been easier for the characters if they found out the truth.

 

[sasaesq]

It's too bad Rami didn't show us more of the butler helping Norman in his secret lab, or somehow show that the butler did in fact know Norman was the GG, & when he knew it. This would have made the so-called "butler scene" in SM3 not seem so "out-of-nowhere". However, the butler did in fact have a good scene with Harry earlier in the movie, before the terrible Harry/MJ dancing scene.

 

[Johnny Israel]

My main problem with the scene is the fact since the time of Norman's passing, Harry became more bitter, depressed, and became an alcoholic (well, maybe not an alcoholic, but he certainly was drinking a hell of a lot if you notice)

So if the butler truly loved Harry liked he stated in 3, how the hell could he watch this young man deteriorate into a shell of his former self? The whole thing seems unnatural and out of left field.

The movie has many instances of poor writing, I'm hoping Spidey 4 brings the series back to it's former prestige. Granted I'm probably one of the few who thought Spiderman 2 was kind of "meh" as well.

 

[The Flea]

The scene isn't even needed in the movie. We could've just had Peter make his plea to Harry and then see Harry show up at the battle. I'm pretty sure we would be able to put it together that Harry forgave Peter.

 

[bellepheron]

Agree with The Flea, if Harry had just shown up having forgiven Peter regardless of wether he thought he killed Norman or not, it would have made more of an impact. And we wouldn't have had to have such a horribly random scene.

 

[The Joker]

What would have been even cooler would be Harry having an emotional confrontation with Norman in the mirror after Peter leaves. Overcoming his father's influence, and deciding to forgive and help Peter.

 

[Vash1538]

In my Spiderman 3.1 cut I'm almost finished with, the scene plays as follows:

Butler: If I may, sir, I've seen things in this house I've never spoken of."

Harry: "Tell me."

Butler: "The night your father died, I.....I cleaned his wound. The blade that pierced his body came from his glider. I know your trying to defend your fathers honor, but theres not doubt he died by his own hand."

music fades out, Harry looks stunned, them slowly nods his in acceptance, as the sad Goblin refrain plays in the background softly.

It plays pretty well, at least as well as you can make that scene work, I think.I thought about cutting it, but then you lose the resolution of the Peter killed my father subplot, and although Rami could have done a better job tying this up, this is what we were left to work with.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This scene was unnecessary. Someone felt Harry needed motivation to go save Peter (not sure who), when he didn't. The movie's theme and Harry's arc would have been stronger had after the scene where Peter asked for Harry's help they just gone to the battle and have Harry just show up. Harry didn't need to know Peter was innocent. By showing up, Harry forgives him and that subplot is resolved. This scene by no means ruined the movie for me, nor did it ruin Harry's arc, but without this scene it is a stronger movie. I don't think we needed him confronting Norman or any additional scene post Peter asking for help. Him showing up would have been enough. We don't need every minute detail of a movie spelled out to us like this scene (or another scene like it) was designed to do, IMO.

Also, that screentime could have been better used on developing Brock briefly more, or developing Sandman more.

 

[chaseter]

...

why would you waist time trying to defend this scene?

This is an even better question.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I, like many, initially thought the Butler Scene came out of nowhere. Considering 5 years passed between SM1 in 2002 & SM3 in 2007, I logically asked myself the question: Why didn't Bernard tell Harry earlier that Norman was killed "by his own hand"?

However, upon reconsideration, by the time SM3 starts, for all we know, Peter may still be a college Freshman, meaning that in "Spiderman movie time", maybe less than a year passed b/t Norman's death & Harry learninig the truth. Maybe only six months, or less?

I don't recall SM2 or SM3 giving any indication of the how much time had passed since the end of the previous movie.

So maybe the Butler's delay in telling Harry wasn't as long of a time period as we all first thought, and therefore maybe the scene isn't so bad after all. That's my spin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on my time hypothesis.

Time between SM1 and SM2 was 2 years. Not sure about the time between SM2 and SM3, but Bernard had two years to say something.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Hum...You know Spider-Man 2's story appens 2 years after Spider-Man's, right? Aunt May mention it's been 2 years since Ben's death in SM2.
And as arachnid-guy said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-man_2
second paragraph.

Closed, next!

All true, it also says on the Spidey 2 DVD that its been 2 years since the first movie.

The music in the scene was awesome though.