The Winter Soldier CA:TWS and A:AoU link?

[1WngdAngel]

So am I the only one thinking with the comments that Cap 2 will lead us into Avengers and the militarization of S.H.I.E.L.D. per the trailer that we'll see Ultron, or at least the beginnings of Ultron, in Cap 2? I know the popular theory is that Stark will build Ultron, but I can easily see SHIELD building a super powerful robot to combat the growing population of superheroes.

 

[Mr. Dent]

this is a common theory

 

[herolee10]

Well a lot of people expect for Steve to quit SHIELD as well by the end of the film, though I wonder if that's too simple of a ending for the character in this film and whether they have something more in stored for his outcome in the film that'll carry him over to the next avengers film.

So far, our last two solo films involving the big three have ended with Tony taking a sabbatical and left with no suits of armor to use, while Thor at the conclusion of his film,

Spoiler

came back to Earth to be there more often and with Loki now in control of Asgard

 

[warhorse78]

I have a question. I don't read the comics, so I don't really know what is what. I just got done watching TFA, and at the end, it doesn't look like Red Skull died to me, but that the tesseract beamed him up to another world, and that there was a moment when the tesseract showed the space stuff, is that Asguard? And, is Red Skull still alive and could possibly come back in a future movie?

Also, what exactly is the serum used on Steve. It looked like both the German scientist and Red Skull were aiming for the same thing, to make supersoldiers, and it looked like they were using the tesseract for it. Was the superserum made up of stuff from other worlds/dimensions?

 

[Hyde]

It'll end with Cap, Widow and possibly Fury going "underground" to carry out true justice and expose the truth about SHIELD's leaders. Would be a fantastic ending.

 

[herolee10]

I have a question. I don't read the comics, so I don't really know what is what. I just got done watching TFA, and at the end, it doesn't look like Red Skull died to me, but that the tesseract beamed him up to another world, and that there was a moment when the tesseract showed the space stuff, is that Asguard? And, is Red Skull still alive and could possibly come back in a future movie?

Also, what exactly is the serum used on Steve. It looked like both the German scientist and Red Skull were aiming for the same thing, to make supersoldiers, and it looked like they were using the tesseract for it. Was the superserum made up of stuff from other worlds/dimensions?

1. The Red Skull is most likely alive within the MCU. When we'll see him again remains the question though. The general belief is that the Red Skull was beamed somewhere within the 9 realms, but I think it's safe to assume that Asgard wasn't that place.

2. The serum used on Steve was the "Super-Soldier" serum that the German scientist made. Both he and the Red Skull had different reasons behind wanting to make super-soldiers and everything within it is of Earth, so no... it was not made up of stuff from other worlds/dimensions.

I hope that helps.

 

[herolee10]

It'll end with Cap, Widow and possibly Fury going "underground" to carry out true justice and expose the truth about SHIELD's leaders. Would be a fantastic ending.

It seems like they do that during the course of the film instead of just waiting to do so at the very end of it.

 

[Hyde]

It seems like they do that during the course of the film instead of just waiting to do so at the very end of it.

I think there'll be some of it in the film to an extent.. We know based on set photos and the trailer that Winter Soldier is sent to assassinate Fury probably sometime during Act Two. The proposed ending will sort of make it official, with Maria Hill maybe taking over as Director of SHIELD.

Either way going on the run will definitely happen in the movie.

 

[cherokeesam]

So am I the only one thinking with the comments that Cap 2 will lead us into Avengers and the militarization of S.H.I.E.L.D. per the trailer that we'll see Ultron, or at least the beginnings of Ultron, in Cap 2? I know the popular theory is that Stark will build Ultron, but I can easily see SHIELD building a super powerful robot to combat the growing population of superheroes.

:raises hand:

Been saying this for months now.
And I firmly believe that Arnim Zola and Howard Stark will be shown to have a hand in creating Ultron in this movie.

Dunno that Ultron will be created specifically to fight superheroes; I think he'll be designed with a more "benevolent" purpose in mind, but his programming goes haywire at some point and changes him into the killer robot we all know and love.

 

[metaphysician]

Eh, I am pretty sure the SHIELD corruption (sub?)plot will be largely resolved in Cap 2. Sure, there will likely be lingering effects, but I *highly* doubt they will do a ESB style non-ending. Not when Whedon has explicitly said how much he hates such plots.

Or, put more simply: no, SHIELD will not morph into one of the setting's villains. Stop getting your hopes up.

 

[Raiden]

:raises hand:

Been saying this for months now.
And I firmly believe that Arnim Zola and Howard Stark will be shown to have a hand in creating Ultron in this movie.

Dunno that Ultron will be created specifically to fight superheroes; I think he'll be designed with a more "benevolent" purpose in mind, but his programming goes haywire at some point and changes him into the killer robot we all know and love.

It could be SHIELD's attempt to replace those superheroes with a robot they can program and control, especially after Capt. America decided to openly disagreeing with the top brass of SHIELD.

We also know that SHIELD has been keeping a file on all the superheroes out there. They might use all the info they gathered to create the perfect robot with attributes from all the Avengers they have in the database.

 

[cherokeesam]

It could be SHIELD's attempt to replace those superheroes with a robot they can program and control, especially after Capt. America decided to openly disagreeing with the top brass of SHIELD.

We also know that SHIELD has been keeping a file on all the superheroes out there. They might use all the info they gathered to create the perfect robot with attributes from all the Avengers they have in the database.

Tru dat.

One of the reasons I keep going back to Zola and Howard Stark as possibly creating Ultron (or at least planting the seeds) in the past is the fact that the past obviously plays such a large thematic role in the film. And not just what happened in WWII, but what happened *afterward* with SHIELD, while Capsicle was still trapped in an iceberg.

There's the fact that Peggy Carter, Arnim Zola, and Howard Stark are confirmed to play roles in the movie, but those roles are still largely unknown. There's the expanded Peggy Carter history in the One-Shot, and even further in a TV show that's in early stages of development.

There's also a curious shot from the CATWS trailer where Steve and Natasha, in civvies, are seen walking into an (apparently) deserted old school SHIELD office.....note that the SHIELD logo on the wall is the old one, not the stylized modern one; and the spartan "decor" (such as it is) is straight-up 1960s office space. I'm willing to bet that scene is about Cap and Widow unearthing a lot of SHIELD's dirty secrets from the past.

 

[warhorse78]

Will Captain America and Tony and the other Shield agents like Natasha and Clint stay on earth in future movies, or could we see them step onto other worlds?

 

[Just_Human]

Well thats what I thought before they released TWS trailer

The unofficial set pics showed Senator Stern, from IM2

Justin Hammer was his "expert" and at the end IM2, Stern was clearly bitter, and Hammer told Pepper " you're gonna see me soon, real soon ! "

Plus in the latest episode of AOS, you can see references to Hammer Industries
(Jump to the AOS episode thread, a fellow member spotted that)

 

[cherokeesam]

Well thats what I thought before they released TWS trailer

The unofficial set pics showed Senator Stern, from IM2

Justin Hammer was his "expert" and at the end IM2, Stern was clearly bitter, and Hammer told Pepper " you're gonna see me soon, real soon ! "

Plus in the latest episode of AOS, you can see references to Hammer Industries
(Jump to the AOS episode thread, a fellow member spotted that)

Technically, the AOS easter egg references "H.A.M.M.E.R.," which in canon, was a sort of "dark-side SHIELD" that sprung up when the Skrulls infiltrated Earth's power elite during Secret Invasion. Technically doesn't have anything to do with Hammer Industries.

But yeah, it's an interesting point, on both sides....H.A.M.M.E.R., or Hammer. Hammer Industries is still alive in the MCU, and we see references in the IM3 prequel comic that the military is still using his crappy hardware.

And god knows that the MCU's absolute "expert" on killer robots going haywire is none other than Justin Hammer. So....odds-on favorite for Ultron's creator right there.

 

[Just_Human]

And god knows that the MCU's absolute "expert" on killer robots going haywire is none other than Justin Hammer. So....odds-on favorite for Ultron's creator right there.

that would be awesome t:

" Im Ultron; I'm gonna kill you all, then afterwards Im probably gonna get laid "

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I kinda hope that SHIELD is involved with gathering a team of scientists for this project Ultron. So it's essentially all of mankind's fault when it turns. Zola, Stark, Hammer, Pym...

I'd be all for something like that.

 

[cherokeesam]

I kinda hope that SHIELD is involved with gathering a team of scientists for this project Ultron. So it's essentially all of mankind's fault when it turns. Zola, Stark, Hammer, Pym...

I'd be all for something like that.

Yeah, I would be, too.
Sort of reminiscent of the old Cold War-era sci-fi approach that generally showed the scientists as the bad guys, whose technophilia and intellectual arrogance backfires on them and threatens the whole human race.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't know, weren't there all these rumors about how Iron Man 3 would set up later movies and basically none of them were true?

Not saying there will be nothing, but at the same time all the "sources" and crap that come out with all this insider info tend to be false.

 

[Mysteryman]

Yes, and I was very pleased the rumor about Happy Hogan dying was untrue .

 

[fixxxer]

Tru dat.

One of the reasons I keep going back to Zola and Howard Stark as possibly creating Ultron (or at least planting the seeds) in the past is the fact that the past obviously plays such a large thematic role in the film. And not just what happened in WWII, but what happened *afterward* with SHIELD, while Capsicle was still trapped in an iceberg.

There's the fact that Peggy Carter, Arnim Zola, and Howard Stark are confirmed to play roles in the movie, but those roles are still largely unknown. There's the expanded Peggy Carter history in the One-Shot, and even further in a TV show that's in early stages of development.

There's also a curious shot from the CATWS trailer where Steve and Natasha, in civvies, are seen walking into an (apparently) deserted old school SHIELD office.....note that the SHIELD logo on the wall is the old one, not the stylized modern one; and the spartan "decor" (such as it is) is straight-up 1960s office space. I'm willing to bet that scene is about Cap and Widow unearthing a lot of SHIELD's dirty secrets from the past.

Haha... you've officially turned me from the "Tony Stark Creates Ultron" camp to the considerably longer named "Howard Stark/Zola Drew Up The Schematics And SHIELD Under Redford's Regime Perfected/Built Ultron To Replace These Insubordinate Spandex-clad Headcase Bozos" camp.

I followed you headlong with "Collector Is Thanos In Disguise", 'sam. Don't burn me again.

 

[Terror Inc.]

All this sounds like the best way to do it in this Marvel Universe. Even though I've always kinda held out hope for the Pym/Ultron connection, I think the idea of Ultron being this collaborative effort of everyone through the years that ultimately gains sentience and turns on humanity is really a great story-piece to weave all of the movies together, and in the end, get the Avengers back together. I can definitely get down with this.