The Dark Knight Caine Describes Ledger's Joker

[regwec]

people would start to question the ethical security of toxic chemicals in Gotham.

Since everything else in Gotham is corrupt, derelict, dangerous or all three, shouldn't the assumption be that industrial chemicals sector is no better?

 

[Magenta666]

In what way? I really hate the way people claim to know what the Joker is "meant to be". He can be interpreted a million different ways, he is bat**** insane and thats all there is to it.

i agree, crazy and smart....and funny and that is the essential Joker.

 

[TheBatman072]

I honestly don't have a problem with it being makeup. You'll have to remember, that they are looking for a more "Realistic" portrayel of the Joker, and dumping him in acid and him surviving isn't. Besides, if you look at what acid burns does to human flesh Joker would end up looking more like Two-Face than the Joker.

It doesn't have to be acid.


Could be unknown chemicals with bleaching and chlorine agents. Perfectly reasonable and realistic.

 

[TheBatman072]

In what way? I really hate the way people claim to know what the Joker is "meant to be". He can be interpreted a million different ways, he is bat**** insane and thats all there is to it.

Irony.

 

[hatebox]

nvm

 

[Magenta666]

Since everything else in Gotham is corrupt, derelict, dangerous or all three, shouldn't the assumption be that industrial chemicals sector is no better?

yes, but you have to admit, from a movie point of view, would you want to see two chemical deformations in one movie, i know it is the mythos of both characters but how would it work in one movie.

you would have to choose between the two and Joker is a clear choice, you cant have Dent pretending to be disfigured.

dont think i want Joker to wear makeup though, im not fond of the idea, it just wont ruin the movie for me.

 

[regwec]

he is bat**** insane and thats all there is to it.

That's a simplification, really. He has always had some consistent traits- flamboyance, sadism, narcissism, sick humour and delusions of grandeur. There has not previously been a reinterpretation where his physical attributes were a disguise rather than evidence of physical damage.

There's nothing wrong with appreciating what Ledger and Nolan are doing, but it is quite original. They deserve either a greater share of praise if it is good, or blame if it isn't.

 

[gazzilla8000]

Personally I'm glad they ditched the tired old vat-of-chemicals cliche. Its too easy and convenient. Why must the Joker be "created" by a tragic accident from his past, can't he just be a F'd up guy? I'd also like to see what kind of chemicals could bleach a man's skin white and his hair bright green in the context of Nolan's world.

 

[TheBatman072]

There has not previously been a reinterpretation where his physical attributes were a disguise rather than evidence of physical damage.

Even in the VERY realistic JSA: Liberty Files, the Joker's skin condition(albino) was permanent. He couldn't take it off.


Yes, the continuity Joker is not albino, but in that story he was. That's not my point. My point is, it was permanent. He couldn't just take his "mask" off.

 

[TheBatman072]

Personally I'm glad they ditched the tired old vat-of-chemicals cliche. Its too easy and convenient. Why must the Joker be "created" by a tragic accident from his past, can't he just be a F'd up guy? I'd also like to see what kind of chemicals could bleach a man's skin white and his hair bright green in the context of Nolan's world.

I'd like to see a guy dress up like a giant bat and fight crime in the context of Nolan's supposed "world." Or Fear Gas. Or the Microwave Emitter. Or an ancient Ninja clan from the Tibetan Mountains who destroy civilizations when they become too corrupt or powerful.


Oh wait, we did. Not so realistic as you'd like to think, eh?

 

[regwec]

I'd also like to see what kind of chemicals could bleach a man's skin white and his hair bright green in the context of Nolan's world.

Perhaps I'm just not with the program, but if "Nolan's world" is so different from "Batman's world", then I can only question whether- talented though he is- he is the best director to be in charge of the franchise.

 

[Dangerous]

Indeed, but not essential in my opinion.

I feel it's integral to his bizzare origin.

Changing this changes who he is.

 

[Magenta666]

Personally I'm glad they ditched the tired old vat-of-chemicals cliche. Its too easy and convenient. Why must the Joker be "created" by a tragic accident from his past, can't he just be a F'd up guy? I'd also like to see what kind of chemicals could bleach a man's skin white and his hair bright green in the context of Nolan's world.

yeah, i think hes much scarier if he just is just plain crazy, the chemicals give him an excuse.

 

[Gianakin_]

I feel it's integral to his bizzare origin.

Changing this changes who he is.

I think the character worked fine in the beginning without the origin. Not that the origin gave hi nothing, but seems like he was popular enough for several stories and years before they gave hi one.
Parker began with the origin.

 

[TheBatman072]

I think the character worked fine in the beginning without the origin. Not that the origin gave hi nothing, but seems like he was popular enough for several stories and years before they gave hi one.
Parker began with the origin.

And yet he still had bleached white skin in his beginnings.

 

[Magenta666]

And yet he still had bleached white skin in his beginnings.

honestly, are we really going to settle this debate until we at least see the trailer? i dont think so, and when the trailer comes out, a whole new debate will spring up from stills from the trailer. so i really dont see why we are going through all the trouble. Im new to the boards but im sure their are threads and threads debating this topic.

 

[Gianakin_]

And yet he still had bleached white skin in his beginnings.

I'm not arguing that at the moment. I'm arguing about the presence or lack of an origin.

 

[Gianakin_]

honestly, are we really going to settle this debate until we at least see the trailer? i dont think so, and when the trailer comes out, a whole new debate will spring up from stills from the trailer. so i really dont see why we are going through all the trouble. Im new to the boards but im sure their are threads and threads debating this topic.

I highly doubt that anything will be settled by the trailer.

 

[gazzilla8000]

I'd like to see a guy dress up like a giant bat and fight crime in the context of Nolan's supposed "world." Or Fear Gas. Or the Microwave Emitter. Or an ancient Ninja clan from the Tibetan Mountains who destroy civilizations when they become too corrupt or powerful.


Oh wait, we did. Not so realistic as you'd like to think, eh?

It's not realistic but it's possible. A Man could possibly dress as a bat and fight crime. The only thing that really defies possibility in Nolan's Batman is the microwave emmiter, and even that is debatable.

But perhaps realism is the wrong angle here. A man falling into a vat of chemicals and coincidently being permanently "scarred" to look like a clown its just way, way too convenient. Possible or impossible, its a cheap excuse and its too silly for Nolan's down-to-earth take. Like it or not, thats the style Nolan is using.

 

[TheBatman072]

honestly, are we really going to settle this debate until we at least see the trailer? i dont think so, and when the trailer comes out, a whole new debate will spring up from stills from the trailer. so i really dont see why we are going through all the trouble. Im new to the boards but im sure their are threads and threads debating this topic.

Yeah, like, three or four of them. But I'm debating in this one. Also, there's nothing to do.

 

[Magenta666]

Yeah, like, three or four of them. But I'm debating in this one. Also, there's nothing to do.

oh ok, which reminds me, who else here doesnt like the way the marketing gives us soo much and then makes us stew for days until something else appears? its cruel i tell ya!

 

[Dangerous]

honestly, are we really going to settle this debate until we at least see the trailer? i dont think so, and when the trailer comes out, a whole new debate will spring up from stills from the trailer. so i really dont see why we are going through all the trouble. Im new to the boards but im sure their are threads and threads debating this topic.

Well, I guess the trailer will settle the debate, or atleast settle which side of the fence each fan sits.

The trailer is the first 4-7 mins fo the film right?, it deals only w/ Jokers origin.
So from that point I'm thinking we won't see anything else that pertains to Jokers origin in the rest of the film.

In this trailer we will either see him apply make up or not, see him fall in chemicals or not. Hopefully for the rest of the film, his face will stay white.

 

[TheBatman072]

It's not realistic but it's possible. A Man could possibly dress as a bat and fight crime. The only thing that really defies possibility in Nolan's Batman is the microwave emmiter, and even that is debatable.

Ha, yeah. Okay. Sure. A guy in this world who did that would be dead in two days.

Also, the microwave emitter would completely dry ANY person who came in close contact with it. Since the human body is made mostly of water. And the microwave emitter *gasp* vaporized water!

But perhaps realism is the wrong angle here. A man falling into a vat of chemicals and coincidently being permanently "scarred" to look like a clown its just way, way too convenient. Possible or impossible, its a cheap excuse and its too silly for Nolan's down-to-earth take. Like it or not, thats the style Nolan is using.

Who said anything about looking like a clown? Green hair and white skin hardly makes one look like a clown. Especially if the skin is very muddled and unsmooth, and the hair is a very choppy and dark green.

The red lipstick, which can or cannot be permanent, it's been done both ways, is the major factoring into the clown personage. So is, to a lesser extent, the black around the eyes.

 

[CaptainClown]

OH LOOK! caine described Heaths Joker!.....again....

 

[Maggotx9]

i this that when he talks about make up, he is referring to the make up that ledger has tu put on for the film, not that the joker puts make up on WHILE filming, there is another interview where ledger talks about the mask he puts on, that when he does, he cant stop smiling, maybe they are talking about something similar, like the make up that he puts on the mask that he wears to look similar to the joker in terms of facial structure