California man - 80 - shoots and kills pregnant woman during home invasion

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/...-gunning-down-fleeing-pregnant-home-intruder/

I'm kind of torn on this. On one hand, they broke into his home and attacked him. That would say he has the right to defend himself.

On the other hand, they were fleeing at the time of the shooting, with the woman begging for her life. Shooting seemed like an unnecessary escalation of the situation.

Which, while I am completely in favor of the 2nd amendment and gun rights, seems to be the mindset of a lot of these gun owners - I have a gun, and I'm gonna shoot you whether it's necessary or not. It's this mentality that leads to situations like this, George Zimmerman & Trayvon Martin, and the situation awhile back where the guy shot a car full of black teens because he "thought" he saw a gun.

The woman certainly did herself no favors by participating in a home invasion in the first place, so on that level it's hard to feel too much sympathy for her. But I feel like shooting her was an unnecessary escalation given she was fleeing at the time of the shooting.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/...-gunning-down-fleeing-pregnant-home-intruder/

I'm kind of torn on this. On one hand, they broke into his home and attacked him. That would say he has the right to defend himself.

On the other hand, they were fleeing at the time of the shooting, with the woman begging for her life. Shooting seemed like an unnecessary escalation of the situation.

Which, while I am completely in favor of the 2nd amendment and gun rights, seems to be the mindset of a lot of these gun owners - I have a gun, and I'm gonna shoot you whether it's necessary or not. It's this mentality that leads to situations like this, George Zimmerman & Trayvon Martin, and the situation awhile back where the guy shot a car full of black teens because he "thought" he saw a gun.

The woman certainly did herself no favors by participating in a home invasion in the first place, so on that level it's hard to feel too much sympathy for her. But I feel like shooting her was an unnecessary escalation given she was fleeing at the time of the shooting.

Must be a full moon or something, because i actually agree with you.

He admited that he chased them down the alley...they were no longer at his house

He shot her IN THE BACK...As she was fleeing and he heard her said that she was pregnant.(his own word,'i shot her anyway)

This wasn't self defense. It's vigilantism

 

[Schlosser85]

By his own account, it wasn't self-defense. She was trying to get away and he shot her twice in the back.

That, and he comes across as completely remorseless about shooting a fleeing pregnant woman twice in the back while she was running away from him.

Granted, she was hardly an innocent victim, but still under the circumstances shooting her was not necessary or justified, IMO.

Pretty dubious what kind of mother she would have made anyway, though.

 

[charl_huntress]

Well....breaking and entering in CA is bad for your health. I'd like to know more about this, like how far away she was from the man.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I support the second amendment, and I fully believe in the right to use lethal force to protect yourself and loved ones if the situation calls for it, but this guy needs to go to jail. It’s awful that he was attacked and injured, but it’s extremely clear that he was no longer in danger and therefore had no just cause in shooting them. His attitude about the shooting –especially fully admitting to not giving a damn that he shot and killed a pregnant woman in the back (her own guilt notwithstanding) is disgusting.

That being said, I think we need to be careful with how we label the people involved in this situation: the only real victim here is the unborn child.

 

[Feenix]

Shooting someone in the back is cowardly. She begged for her life, he shot her anyways. Book him for murder.

Also, they should put him through a psych evaluation. If he's not totally there, he shouldn't have a gun.

 

[charl_huntress]

Just to add, I can't see the DA charging him. And the shooter's lack of remorse could be due to his age. But like I said, I would have to know more about this before I will add my two cents.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

^^By his own admission, they left his house already, and running to an alley.

All reasons for self defense was already gone by that point.

Also by his own admission,he shot her in the back,even after hearing her said, don't shoot

 

[charl_huntress]

I'm very familiar with Long Beach. Some houses have garages or backyards off alleyways. Plus he's eighty years old. I don't see him running after her, but I can see a scenario where they attacked and beat him. He gets gun, and then they try to get away. My point is she had to still be very close to him.

 

[Figs]

While it's messed up he shot her in the back, they did attack him and they are ****ing thieves. I can't stand thieves just as much as murderers and rapists. With that being said, I won't say he did a good thing, but he probably saved a number of other people from getting ripped off and or beaten up in their own homes.

 

[KevanG]

I'm in the middle on this.

 

[Donnie Darko]

Shooting someone in the back is cowardly. She begged for her life, he shot her anyways. Book him for murder.

Also, they should put him through a psych evaluation. If he's not totally there, he shouldn't have a gun.

I'd say breaking into an old man's home, stealing his money, attacking him two on one, and then running away is more cowardly.

 

[Feenix]

This is why I'm glad I live in Canada.

If he was close enough for her to beg for her life, he was close enough to shoot in a spot that wouldn't kill her. He already proved his point by getting his gun and chasing the thieves. The rest is overkill.

I see this as cold blooded murder.

 

[Figs]

I'd say breaking into an old man's home, stealing his money, attacking him two on one, and then running away is more cowardly.

 

[charl_huntress]

I'd say breaking into an old man's home, stealing his money, attacking him two on one, and then running away is more cowardly.

I agree with this, plus beating an old an is cowardly.

 

[Schlosser85]

I'm torn between my own feelings that the fewer low lives like this the better, and thinking objectively that he didn't need to kill her.

 

[Feenix]

I wonder what the reaction will be if it turns out the woman was actually pregnant.

Because, to some people, abortions are murder, so if someone kills another person knowing they're pregnant, that would be murder of the fetus as well.

At the end of the day, I don't think people deserve to die over stuff. If someone robbed me, my first reaction would not be to kill them.

 

[Schlosser85]

Basically, on an emotional level, if some ***** broke into my home and attacked me and ransacked or stole or destroyed my belongings, I would want her to be dead.

But I wouldn't chase her out into the yard and shoot her because I've seen way too many cases of the homeowner being charged and I'll be damned if I go to jail for someone who beat me up and robbed me.

 

[The Endless]

Hmmm they are ********s for beating an old man and attempting to rob him.

But i don't understand the point of shooting them when they are running away? That isn't self defense, that's revenge, basically.

It's like if i was out drinking, got beaten up in a fight, then went home got a gun, then came back and shot the people who beat me up. "oh i'll show them!"

To me that's murder.

And frankly, someone who shoots an unarmed pregnant woman who is begging for her life in the back and shows zero remorse has some sociopathic tendencies or at least, a really bad ****ing temper. That someone shouldn't be allowed a gun.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I wonder what the reaction will be if it turns out the woman was actually pregnant.

Because, to some people, abortions are murder, so if someone kills another person knowing they're pregnant, that would be murder of the fetus as well.

At the end of the day, I don't think people deserve to die over stuff. If someone robbed me, my first reaction would not be to kill them.

Conservative heads are about to explode as they try to figure out if they should defend the gun rights, or the "pro-life" fetus angle.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Basically, on an emotional level, if some ***** broke into my home and attacked me and ransacked or stole or destroyed my belongings, I would want her to be dead.

But I wouldn't chase her out into the yard and shoot her because I've seen way too many cases of the homeowner being charged and I'll be damned if I go to jail for someone who beat me up and robbed me.

I wouldn't want someone dead simply for stealing things from my home.

That's the sort of overkill I'm talking about.

If he had shot them during the home invasion, or during the attack, I'd be willing to take the self defense angle.

But to shoot them when they are fleeing and leaving the home, you have successfully been "self defended", and the woman states she is pregnant and begging for her life?

That's a whole different situation. If you still want them dead at that point, then that is murder.

 

[The Endless]

The thing is, maybe on an emotional level you are ****ing pissed off. But people who let their emotions, whether that is fear or anger, completely take hold of them shouldn't be allowed to have guns. Simple really.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Put him down for murder but take 20% time off his sentence since he wouldn't have been in the situation had they not broke into his home

 

[Hal_Jordan]

He wasn't afraid for his life at all anymore. He became judge, jury and executioner once he got his gun.

A fleeing woman is begging for her life as she runs away from you and you still shoot her TWICE in the back, that is in no way self defense anymore.

He even says he basically did it to teach the guy who got away a lesson!

“I shot her so that’s going to leave a message on his mind for the rest of his life.”

What about your life, since you actually shot and killed her? No remorse at all.

 

[Donnie Darko]

It's like if i was out drinking, got beaten up in a fight, then went home got a gun, then came back and shot the people who beat me up. "oh i'll show them!"

To me that's murder.

I'm not saying what he did was RIGHT, but you do realize this situation you just described is nothing at all like the one that actually happened, right? He didn't go out drinking and get in a fight. He was robbed and assaulted in his own home, the place he should feel most safe/secure.