Sequels Can a Spider-Man movie ever top The Dark Knight?

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spider-neil

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opinons please.

this is bascially a new thread asking if a spidey movie can reach the level of depth and complexity of the TDK.
if this thread is too similar to another please merge and lock
 
I personally hope that a Spider-man movie could top the Dark Knight, because it would be an amazingly fun movie to watch, but I don't think it would be easy, and I don't think it will ever happen as long as we have Raimi as a director.

Now, I don't dislike Raimi, I think he did a good job with the movies, but when it comes down to it, I think Nolan understands the character of Batman and the Batman mythos better then Raimi understands the character of Spider-man and the Spider-man mythos.

Raimi left out core elements to the character of Spider-man, and he really mishandled supporting characters like MJ and Gwen.

I hope that one day we see a Spider-man movie that surpasses TDK, and if we do, I'll be one verrrrrrrrrrrrry happy Spider-fan.
 
You guys are just no gonna stop with this are you...
 
Offcourse we can.. if we dont rush things .. the problem is the people like dark movies ... and spiderman can never be dark.
 
If they get their act together, sure, anything is possible.
 
Offcourse we can.. if we dont rush things .. the problem is the people like dark movies ... and spiderman can never be dark.
Notice how the TC never said anything about the Spidey movies being dark...
 
Notice how the TC never said anything about the Spidey movies being dark...

Yeah i did, but people prefer dark movies , thats the disadvantage spiderman has with trying to top dark knight in money.
 
Im gonna say no.
Spider-man just isn't as deep and complex as Batman in general, and thats okay. Hes a fun superhero that can incorporate cool themes but I can't see a film of his ever having philosophical material in it.

Marvel films that CAN top TDK in terms of complexity are:
Iron Man, Daredevil, X-men, Hulk,Silver Sufer and ermmm thats all I can think of for now. I guess if FF covered the Silver Surfer/Galactus film it could too. Of course their directors would have to be at the top of their games
 
Im gonna say no.
Spider-man just isn't as deep and complex as Batman in general, and thats okay. Hes a fun superhero that can incorporate cool themes but I can't see a film of his ever having philosophical material in it.

Marvel films that CAN top TDK in terms of complexity are:
Iron Man, Daredevil, X-men, Hulk,Silver Sufer and ermmm thats all I can think of for now. I guess if FF covered the Silver Surfer/Galactus film it could too. Of course their directors would have to be at the top of their games
Talk about words that are idiotic, you obviously know very little about Spider-Man I see. Of course Spider-Man is every bit as complex and deep as Batman, but you will never see it on film, as long as Marvel allows Spider-Man to continue to be a children's property.

To answer the thread starter, yes. It's actually quite easy for Spider-Man to top TDK, or Terminator 2, or Predator, or The Crow, or The Matrix or any other movie. But it simply cannot do so under the present conditions in which the Spider-Man movies are held. For now, they are limited, in a box, dying to burst out...like birth if you will. In order to outdo these types of films, you have to be willing to make a raw Spider-Man film, that doesn't cater to children. A movie that follows story arcs (like Kraven's Last Hunt, my personal favorite) without watering it down, to it's very last compound to make it a family-oriented event. You have to have writers, producers, studios and especially a director willing to push the envelope, instead of just trying to sell Spider-Man toys and twinkies to tots.

Now with that said, this is a "SPIDER-MAN" forum, yet, there are three "BATMAN" threads thus far. Hey, I love Bats too, but you can do your praising of him in an actual Batman forum that the Hype! has so eloquently provided. This sh:t is getting ridiculous.
 
Forgive me,but I think one already has:Spider-man 2.
As great as TDK is,for me anyway,Spidey 2 is just a bit more fun.
 
If anything can top TDK its a new Spiderman movie.
 
I think they can achieve it with a well told lizard story, the potential is there. the duality of the character lends itself to a superb storyline if done right especially how conner's deals with his change and how he deals with his famiky, there is also the aspect of spidey choosing between aressting exposing a friend or protecting a family.

storylines that are incredibly moving

the death of gewn stacy
the death of captain stacy
the death of jean dewolf(sp)
kraven's last hunt.
can't use harry addicted to drugs but harry has gone.

I'm sure sure spidey SHOULD go in the dark direction although I absolutely loved the seen in the hospital where doc ock is born and the final fight in the graveyard with green golbin.

in answer to my own question, yes I think if done right spidey could top TDK.
 
I was actually in a lot of pain as I watched the dark knight because, there were so many parallels in how spider-man could and should have been done. The stand out scene was when the joker is rallying up Gotham's crime lords and it just cast my mind back to the early comics when the GG wanted to do the exact same thing. Raimi messed this up big time! Then, there was the joker's speech about how batman is a hero for now and the city will eventually turn on him, very similar to GG's rather silly and inferior message to spidey on top of the roof in sm1.

As I said before in another thread, TDK isn't afraid to admit the genre it represents and with that in mind, they do the best they possibly can while maintaining what is so great about the comics and delivering a fantastic movie in general. There's no sugar coating here. The spidey movies need to grow some balls and not be afarid to showcase what even the source material were able to do. That being said, to answer the thread's question, yes. A spidey movie can top TDK BUT as Infinity9999x said, this will never happen as long as Raimi is on board because after 3 movies, its still clear that Raimi is only familiar with only too few sides to spidey and his world and that frankly isn't enough!
 
Forgive me,but I think one already has:Spider-man 2.
As great as TDK is,for me anyway,Spidey 2 is just a bit more fun.

I second that notion. I loved TDK, but as I said in another thread, Nolan throws too much into the film, especially after the Joker escapes. I didn't like Nolan throwing away Two Face in this movie, as Dent was easily my favorite character in the film, and he should have been saved for later installments. I understand the whole corruption plot, but this is just my opinion. I still vote Spidey 2 as TDK's equal or maybe even superior.
 
I was actually in a lot of pain as I watched the dark knight because, there were so many parallels in how spider-man could and should have been done. The stand out scene was when the joker is rallying up Gotham's crime lords and it just cast my mind back to the early comics when the GG wanted to do the exact same thing. Raimi messed this up big time! Then, there was the joker's speech about how batman is a hero for now and the city will eventually turn on him, very similar to GG's rather silly and inferior message to spidey on top of the roof in sm1.

As I said before in another thread, TDK isn't afraid to admit the genre it represents and with that in mind, they do the best they possibly can while maintaining what is so great about the comics and delivering a fantastic movie in general. There's no sugar coating here. The spidey movies need to grow some balls and not be afarid to showcase what even the source material were able to do. That being said, to answer the thread's question, yes. A spidey movie can top TDK BUT as Infinity9999x said, this will never happen as long as Raimi is on board because after 3 movies, its still clear that Raimi is only familiar with only too few sides to spidey and his world and that frankly isn't enough!
I agree with most of what you said The Agent, but you better understand this, it doesn't matter what director, actors or writers takes over Spider-Man. If the studios (MARVEL and SONY) don't have the balls to push for an adult-oriented Spider-Man, and there focus is on how many toys can we sell, and we must not offend soccer moms and kids, and we must write the movie for 8 year olds...you're never going to get the Spidey movie that you speak of. Marvel and Sony would have to be on board first, and want a much more mature Spider-Man film, no matter the director.

And even if a writer were to write a much more mature version from the elements in the comics (a la Kraven's Last Hunt) Marvel and Sony would CUT OUT various portions of the script, that contains content not suitable for kids and soccer moms. That's the big problem with these films as I see it. Everything would be packaged and served to the audience as a family oriented movie, with no risk taken, no one offended and villains who are warm and good inside, pretty much forced to do bad things.
 
Talk about words that are idiotic, you obviously know very little about Spider-Man I see. Of course Spider-Man is every bit as complex and deep as Batman, but you will never see it on film, as long as Marvel allows Spider-Man to continue to be a children's property.

To answer the thread starter, yes. It's actually quite easy for Spider-Man to top TDK, or Terminator 2, or Predator, or The Crow, or The Matrix or any other movie. But it simply cannot do so under the present conditions in which the Spider-Man movies are held. For now, they are limited, in a box, dying to burst out...like birth if you will. In order to outdo these types of films, you have to be willing to make a raw Spider-Man film, that doesn't cater to children. A movie that follows story arcs (like Kraven's Last Hunt, my personal favorite) without watering it down, to it's very last compound to make it a family-oriented event. You have to have writers, producers, studios and especially a director willing to push the envelope, instead of just trying to sell Spider-Man toys and twinkies to tots.

Now with that said, this is a "SPIDER-MAN" forum, yet, there are three "BATMAN" threads thus far. Hey, I love Bats too, but you can do your praising of him in an actual Batman forum that the Hype! has so eloquently provided. This sh:t is getting ridiculous.
HAHA! You fanboys leave all rationality out the door when it comes to defending your superheroes.
Its not that difficult to understand, some stories are more complex than others, why do people get offended by this? :huh:
Am I saying Batman is better than Spider-man, not by any means...Spidey is my favorite hero by far, no one comes close but hes not as complex as the others Ive mentioned. And thats okay, its fine to have a fun superhero. Soidey has covered some pretty deep stories but Batman's stories beats them in terms of complexity. Saying that a Spidey film can easily have the same amount of complexity as any other film is just a load of bull****.
I can say "Humpty Dumpty the egg" movie can have as much complexity as an other film but in reality its just not true.
Spider-mans a cool guy that every teenage boy wants to be, he an average kid blessed with superpowers thats what makes him such a fun charecter to watch....but a Matrix or Terminator 2 he is not, hes just not that deep.Sorry :o
 
HAHA! You fanboys leave all rationality out the door when it comes to defending your superheroes.
Its not that difficult to understand, some stories are more complex than others, why do people get offended by this? :huh:
Am I saying Batman is better than Spider-man, not by any means...Spidey is my favorite hero by far, no one comes close but hes not as complex as the others Ive mentioned. And thats okay, its fine to have a fun superhero. Soidey has covered some pretty deep stories but Batman's stories beats them in terms of complexity. Saying that a Spidey film can easily have the same amount of complexity as any other film is just a load of bull****.
I can say "Humpty Dumpty the egg" movie can have as much complexity as an other film but in reality its just not true.
Spider-mans a cool guy that every teenage boy wants to be, he an average kid blessed with superpowers thats what makes him such a fun charecter to watch....but a Matrix or Terminator 2 he is not, hes just not that deep.Sorry :o

I disagree. I'd have to say that Spider-man and Batman themselves aren't that deep to begin with. Spider-man is a guilt ridden teen because he didn't stop the man who killed his uncle, and now uses his power for good. Batman is a man who lost his parents at a young age and he wants to make sure no one has to endure what he did.

Neither of them are that hard to understand. Batman's rouges however, are some of the more psychologically complex characters out there. I wouldn't say it's the character of Batman himself that makes his stories so deep, it's the villains. They're the ones that are the most complex and deep, and I think one of the reasons Batman is so popular.

Vile said:
Not with Raimi

I completely agree.
 
HAHA! You fanboys leave all rationality out the door when it comes to defending your superheroes.
Its not that difficult to understand, some stories are more complex than others, why do people get offended by this? :huh:
Am I saying Batman is better than Spider-man, not by any means...Spidey is my favorite hero by far, no one comes close but hes not as complex as the others Ive mentioned. And thats okay, its fine to have a fun superhero. Soidey has covered some pretty deep stories but Batman's stories beats them in terms of complexity. Saying that a Spidey film can easily have the same amount of complexity as any other film is just a load of bull****.
I can say "Humpty Dumpty the egg" movie can have as much complexity as an other film but in reality its just not true.
Spider-mans a cool guy that every teenage boy wants to be, he an average kid blessed with superpowers thats what makes him such a fun charecter to watch....but a Matrix or Terminator 2 he is not, hes just not that deep.Sorry :o
Offended, by fictional characters...okay? :huh:

Yes, I am saying that a Spider-Man film can have the complexity of TDK and other movies, as well. Remember, there are 6 Batman movies, and only one has achieved the complexity of him and his villain of the comics (notice I didn't include BB). So why would you not think that this can happen to Spider-Man? They created 6 Batman films, and only got it right once in over 20 years of making these films. Why wasn't the other Batman films as complexed as TDK? It's all in the writing and direction.

The Matrix and T2 get their very elements and content from the realm of comic books, not the other way around. But they're written in a way that appeals to older teens and adults, not just children.

Just a cool guy that every teenage boy wants to be, come on, that's pretty much describes every comic book character (and Luke Sky-Walker to boot), hell, as a teen I didn't want to be Spider-Man or Batman, more like The Silver Surfer, but with my nads intact. :dry:

Not with Raimi
I'd go a bit further, and say not with Marvel. Unfortunately, Marvel/Sony treats Spider-Man movies with kid gloves, because of the money that he can generate. It is why I have always said that Spider-Man is a victim of his own success. Sadly, these kid gloves are rubbing off on fans.
 
There are many issues fundementally wrong in this thread:

1. People like dark movies more...Titanic was not a dark movie and it is the highest grossing domestic movie of all time. Then comes star wars, they have some dark elements...but they are by no means dark movies(with the exception of episode 3). so that's wrong.

2. Spider-Man isn't as deep as Batman and can never be...are. you. friggin. kidding. ME? There are incredibley dark story archs (many already mentioned in this thread) and also very twisted stories to go from. It really depends on the director and writer to decide these things...ANY comic book character can be really deep depending the the writer. So this too is completely incorrect.

3. Spidey will never have a dark/more adult and serious movie like Batman because of Marvel and the money they have make off the last ones...Do you really think Marvel hasn't taken note of The Dark Knight and the money it is making? If so, you are pretty thick headed....and TDK is by no means a kiddy movie. It has smashed all of Spider-Man 3's records and SM3 really isn't that great of a Spidey movie! So, once again...you people are not thinking logically.

Spider-Man movies thus far have definitely been handled with a more kid friendly tone in mind...but it is incredibly conceivable that we will get a more mature and critically acclaimed Spider-Man movie than TDK...I almost want to say it's a no brainer that it will happen. It's really just a matter of time and creative talent.

The friggen End.
 
Not now...TDK's legs are further proof that it is a fantastic movie. I love you Spidey but sorry...won't happen until they make these movies more broad than just a fun kid afternoon movie full of boyscout camp.
 
I second that notion. I loved TDK, but as I said in another thread, Nolan throws too much into the film, especially after the Joker escapes. I didn't like Nolan throwing away Two Face in this movie, as Dent was easily my favorite character in the film, and he should have been saved for later installments. I understand the whole corruption plot, but this is just my opinion. I still vote Spidey 2 as TDK's equal or maybe even superior.

Nolan's Dent had no other reason to be Two-face. Once he got revenge for Rachel(or tried to) he'd be done and would commit suicide or turn himself in or something. Two-Face was Joker's weapon to bring down Gotham. He was Joker's Ace in The Hole. Two-Face is the most important part of the story and his death completes the movie.

Yes, A Spiderman movie could, but lets be honest, Batman VS Joker is probably the deepest, most phychological battle in all of comics. It would be hard to top Nolan's near perfect film about this. Spiderman is very deep, and I believe Sony would release a Spiderman film that is better than TDK. Heck, Spiderman 2 could have been that spiderman movie if its villain, was, well, Joker.:woot: or atleast a bit more fleshed out.
 
There are many issues fundementally wrong in this thread:

1. People like dark movies more...Titanic was not a dark movie and it is the highest grossing domestic movie of all time. Then comes star wars, they have some dark elements...but they are by no means dark movies(with the exception of episode 3). so that's wrong.

2. Spider-Man isn't as deep as Batman and can never be...are. you. friggin. kidding. ME? There are incredibley dark story archs (many already mentioned in this thread) and also very twisted stories to go from. It really depends on the director and writer to decide these things...ANY comic book character can be really deep depending the the writer. So this too is completely incorrect.

3. Spidey will never have a dark/more adult and serious movie like Batman because of Marvel and the money they have make off the last ones...Do you really think Marvel hasn't taken note of The Dark Knight and the money it is making? If so, you are pretty thick headed....and TDK is by no means a kiddy movie. It has smashed all of Spider-Man 3's records and SM3 really isn't that great of a Spidey movie! So, once again...you people are not thinking logically.

Spider-Man movies thus far have definitely been handled with a more kid friendly tone in mind...but it is incredibly conceivable that we will get a more mature and critically acclaimed Spider-Man movie than TDK...I almost want to say it's a no brainer that it will happen. It's really just a matter of time and creative talent.

The friggen End.

The Friggen truth
 
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