The Dark Knight Rises Can it be topped?

[mrbrownie]

when comparing the two, i think the obvious issue is: while the great aspects of TDK clearly out perform the great aspects of BB...BB is a much tighter film as a whole. TDK shot for something much larger in scale than BB, and in the process opened itself up for greater flaws, which i felt were obvious in the film.

I'm still trying to see the "flaws" people mention this and that but I just find them logical. Even in TDK thread dedicated to posting flaws, errors and plotholes, every single that it was mentioned it was counterpointed with a logical and straightforward response. I'm not saying "tDk bezt muvy evArz" that's a really subjective title, and I do want to find all of these "flaws" everyone claims, but most of them are understandable personal nitpicks.

Returning to the topic at hand. TDK was NOT perfect. It missed on a lot of Batman focus. I would love the next one to either:

a) Take the atmosphere of BB and combined with TDK, taking TDK's complex story with BB's timing.
b) A totally new type of story, just like TDK changed from BB. Which I think it'll be what the Nolans go for.

But I really want to see more of Batman, and real awesome physical fights. I know we have BB if we want more Batman, but I would love to see less of Bruce and more of Bats in the next one, not in the "losing to the monster inside" kind of stuff, but having to patrol every night, all night long, because crime's on the rise, as freaks too.

 

[ChinoXL]

Batman 3 could be the best Batman story ever told IMO, while TDK still being the best film

A Batman story told through a man who is obsessed about finding out who Batman is aka The Riddler ... could be very interesting

It could also be told through Bane who is pretty much a genius and finds out who he is also (I think can't remember)

 

[Motown Marvel]

I'm still trying to see the "flaws" people mention this and that but I just find them logical. Even in TDK thread dedicated to posting flaws, errors and plotholes, every single that it was mentioned it was counterpointed with a logical and straightforward response. I'm not saying "tDk bezt muvy evArz" that's a really subjective title, and I do want to find all of these "flaws" everyone claims, but most of them are understandable personal nitpicks.

Returning to the topic at hand. TDK was NOT perfect. It missed on a lot of Batman focus. I would love the next one to either:

a) Take the atmosphere of BB and combined with TDK, taking TDK's complex story with BB's timing.
b) A totally new type of story, just like TDK changed from BB. Which I think it'll be what the Nolans go for.

But I really want to see more of Batman, and real awesome physical fights. I know we have BB if we want more Batman, but I would love to see less of Bruce and more of Bats in the next one, not in the "losing to the monster inside" kind of stuff, but having to patrol every night, all night long, because crime's on the rise, as freaks too.

i've mentioned legit flaws in the film since its release. not nitpicks, but legit storytelling flaws. it astounds me when people seem to be in denial about them. its undoubtedly a good movie, but its script was a bit too loose and could have used a few more passes. but i've gone over it a million times before here so im not getting into it again. its just my opinion.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

The best part about TDK was from mid-point/two-thirds in until the end. All they have to do is just pick it right back up and continue it.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

IMO, the only way TDK will be topped is if they make Batman the focal point again, and tone down the villains, ala BB. Bring back some of the familiar themes from BB, like the training he received and the guilt he has for his parents' death, as well as TDK's, like the repurcussions from his decision to take the blame for Harvey's crimes. I personally wouldn't mind them going with a Taxi-Driver approach to Bruce, either. Making it a total character piece would be great to me.

 

[SheldonLevene]

Did this get merged with the new thread?

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

^ I believe it did.

 

[SheldonLevene]

^ I believe it did.

Just checking. Thanks.

 

[jmc]

Can it be topped? Possible. Is it likely? Odds are slim at best.

 

[SuperFerret]

Whether or not it can be topped is up to the viewer. I enjoyed TDK, but after a few viewings, it's darkness gets stale, but that's just me.

 

[SuperKoala]

that man speaks the truth

 

[mrbrownie]

i've mentioned legit flaws in the film since its release. not nitpicks, but legit storytelling flaws. it astounds me when people seem to be in denial about them. its undoubtedly a good movie, but its script was a bit too loose and could have used a few more passes. but i've gone over it a million times before here so im not getting into it again. its just my opinion.

If is not that bothersome, would you kindly PM one of your posts, I'm interested in your take. I'm not in denial, I just have failed to see real arguments. I know it's not airtight, there's virtually no movie that is.

 

[CFE]

I think that, with a little creativity, anything's possible on a thematic level. So yes, I think "The Dark Knight" CAN be topped thematically (from a storytelling point...characterizations/set pieces/etc.)

But in terms of the stars being in alignment...I do NOT think the simultaneous critical and box office success of "The Dark Knight" will be topped for quite some time...not even by another Nolan-helmed "Batman" film.

Although I'm sure most people didn't think "The Dark Knight" would amount to any more than "Batman Begins" did and look how that turned out...so never say never I guess lol...

 

[CuppaJoe07]

I'm still trying to see the "flaws" people mention this and that but I just find them logical. Even in TDK thread dedicated to posting flaws, errors and plotholes, every single that it was mentioned it was counterpointed with a logical and straightforward response. I'm not saying "tDk bezt muvy evArz" that's a really subjective title, and I do want to find all of these "flaws" everyone claims, but most of them are understandable personal nitpicks.

I agree. Damn, everybody's complaining about TDK alluvvasudden. Ii'm not saying it's perfect either, but if you want to get into an argument about perfection, I usually look at it like this: if it's the way the filmmaker intended it to be, then in a way it is perfect. Whether or not people like it is the thing.

Ah well, I still love it to death, no complaining about flaws here. Even if they are there, if I don't notice them, then who cares. I'm no film student, I just know what I like and that's good enough for me I guess.

 

[RockyBatboa]

I think the phantasm can do it! awesome story great n grimy like character what do you guys think?

That "Mask of the Phantasm" was a little better than "Dark Knight" and still remains the best Batman movie.



Dark Knight a close second..



Can another film be better than the Dark Knight? sure, why not? Things can always get better or worse.

 

[Doc Samson]

NO. In terms of a better movie from a technical aspect, yeah, but in the case of anything that's considered classic, there are other things at work besides just being a great film.

Besides the fact of the Joker probably not being included, which I've already debated ad nauseum about, the real issue is that simply there is nowhere for the movie to really go to top TDK, or even match it. I liken it to The Godfather trilogy, in that, the second film leaves you in a state of continuation & closure at the same time. We knew Corleone was going to continue to run his business while trying to become legitimate, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't anything we really needed to see.

BB had somewhere to go, something to build upon, and a iconic villain blatantly foreshadowed that everyone was interested in seeing re-imagined. And Batman himself isn't someone who has a continual arc, eventually he stops evolving and he's just The Batman, stoic in his mission, steady in his belief and conviction, and unflinching, understanding that his actions have locked him into fighting crime forever. He is who he is simply because he DOESN'T change or evolve after a certain point, he's obsessive with a singular focus. That's Batman to me, and by the end of TDK, that's who he is...

 

[Motown Marvel]

NO. In terms of a better movie from a technical aspect, yeah, but in the case of anything that's considered classic, there are other things at work besides just being a great film.

Besides the fact of the Joker probably not being included, which I've already debated ad nauseum about, the real issue is that simply there is nowhere for the movie to really go to top TDK, or even match it. I liken it to The Godfather trilogy, in that, the second film leaves you in a state of continuation & closure at the same time. We knew Corleone was going to continue to run his business while trying to become legitimate, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't anything we really needed to see.

BB had somewhere to go, something to build upon, and a iconic villain blatantly foreshadowed that everyone was interested in seeing re-imagined. And Batman himself isn't someone who has a continual arc, eventually he stops evolving and he's just The Batman, stoic in his mission, steady in his belief and conviction, and unflinching, understanding that his actions have locked him into fighting crime forever. He is who he is simply because he DOESN'T change or evolve after a certain point, he's obsessive with a singular focus. That's Batman to me, and by the end of TDK, that's who he is...

seriously? dude, there have been phenomenal batman stories being told since the 30's. stories superior to both BB and TDK combined. and you're telling me that after two movies there's no place to go?

 

[CaptainClown]

How come there is no maybe? i want to vote maybe

 

[Bat-Gasm]

I don't know if it can be "topped" but I am sure Batman III could be just as good.

Okay, so probably no Joker, that's cool. I've read so many ideas on how to bring the Joker into the 3rd movie. I personally think that's a bad idea. I think, and it may just be me that any attempted visuals would take away from the story and make me remember that Heath is dead, and the joker is just a fictional character in the Batman universe.

I think Bats should be doing something at Arkham and while walking down the hall passing all the cells the audience hears a very quiet and subtle recording of heath's laugh and that's it. But never an actual visual.

Story wise? I don't know. I always kinda' thought a nolanized loose adaption of TDKR would be pretty sweet.

I wouldn't want him to introduce any characters that couldn't be fully developed in a single movie considering it will probably be his last one.

 

[SuperFerret]

NO. In terms of a better movie from a technical aspect, yeah, but in the case of anything that's considered classic, there are other things at work besides just being a great film.

Besides the fact of the Joker probably not being included, which I've already debated ad nauseum about, the real issue is that simply there is nowhere for the movie to really go to top TDK, or even match it. I liken it to The Godfather trilogy, in that, the second film leaves you in a state of continuation & closure at the same time. We knew Corleone was going to continue to run his business while trying to become legitimate, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't anything we really needed to see.

BB had somewhere to go, something to build upon, and a iconic villain blatantly foreshadowed that everyone was interested in seeing re-imagined. And Batman himself isn't someone who has a continual arc, eventually he stops evolving and he's just The Batman, stoic in his mission, steady in his belief and conviction, and unflinching, understanding that his actions have locked him into fighting crime forever. He is who he is simply because he DOESN'T change or evolve after a certain point, he's obsessive with a singular focus. That's Batman to me, and by the end of TDK, that's who he is...

TDK is a good movie, but it's not a classic.

 

[mjbull23]

TDK can be topped, but it's obviously going to be an extremely difficult task to accomplish. I don't think Nolan will approach this final installment with this mindset. Instead I just hope he sets out to make the best movie possible, and a fitting ending to a masterful trilogy.

 

[jmc]

TDK is a good movie, but it's not a classic.

Not yet, give it 20 years though.

 

[Batman137]

Heres What I Would Like To See...(I would like to hear some feedback)


~I found that Batman Begins had an incredible first half. And then It lacked at the end. With TDK it was the opposite. The beginning lacked, and the middle to end was strong. In a third, I really want to see the movie never back down. Which is almost impossible, but I think with Nolan and crew, it can be done.
~Second, they really need to get back on with Batman/Bruce Wayne's character. I found that there was very little Batman time. With a movie called "The Dark Knight" you would think they would focus it on him, but they didn't. The major issue to me was the screen time Bruce Wayne got. It seemed like he was in the movie for about 5 minutes. And if he was, he maybe only had a line or two. They really, really need to have a lot/ equal screen time for the two.
~NO CATWOMAN. With the series focusing on escalation, I don't think that Catwoman would be a step up from the Joker. THE RIDDLER would be the best choice. It would take the jokers mystery things to the next level. I think that may be a great task for batman. Solving his riddles, and at the same time hiding. Seems like it would be a great story arc. I am also not a fan of woman villains, but i wont get into that.
I have complete faith in Nolan. Bringing the pace/story/epicness from Batman Begins, to TDK's action/suspense/excitement would make a great third movie.

 

[The Shape]

No, TDK cannot be topped, plain and simple. Still, I'd like to see a strong final installment to cap off this badass trilogy.

 

[Christmas]

I do not think TDK can be topped as a pop culture phenomenon. Certainly Nolan can make a better and more inventive film if he really tried.