Can You Lose Your Salvation?

[C-$]

If you're a born again christian, "Do you believe that you can lose your salvation"?

 

[Calvin]

Why on earth wouldn't you be able to? I doubt born again christians think they can go on a murder spree without consequences. Well, just any ol' murder spree, at least.

 

[Mr. Credible]

Why on earth wouldn't you be able to? I doubt born again christians think they can go on a murder spree without consequences. Well, just any ol' murder spree, at least.

apparently you don't know too many born again christians... i have more than a couple who are close friends, and we've had this discussion once or twice. they think that as long as they are "truly sorry" for whatever it is they do, be it murder or rape or stealing or what have you, and the ask "god" for forgivness, and mean it, then they're good to go (to heaven)

so, yeah... that makes sense, right?

 

[Noir]

Wow.
That is ****ed up.

 

[Mr. Credible]

Wow.
That is ****ed up.

the question i always asked of my 'born again' friends, was "if a repeated child molester/murderer was on death row, and found religion while in prison, and asked god to forgive him, would he go to heaven?"

they all agree that yes, he will.

that just doesn't seem right to me. i don't care if that rapist was sorry or not, he still did all those things.

plus, how embarrassing would it be to get to heaven, and have yourself introduced as a child rapist that repented? as opposed to the other people that led good lives? i'd be more than a little ashamed.

 

[Noir]

"What are you.. An Amish men?"
"Oh, your a Nun who devoted her entire life to god..?"

"I Molested six kids and murdered a crippled boy, and I still got in :P!"

 

[terry78]

Some people do feel they can do whatever they want, and then repent on their death bed, as The Simpsons have poked fun at countless times. It doesn't give you carte blanche to go nuts if you decide to choose that path, that's not what it's about. I'm not a devout religious person, but I do have a spiritual side.

 

[Calvin]

apparently you don't know too many born again christians... i have more than a couple who are close friends, and we've had this discussion once or twice. they think that as long as they are "truly sorry" for whatever it is they do, be it murder or rape or stealing or what have you, and the ask "god" for forgivness, and mean it, then they're good to go (to heaven)

so, yeah... that makes sense, right?

The last part of my post was a tongue in cheek poke at that. But, even if you think you can get forgiveness again, you're still losing your salvation at some point if you do certain things, so the answer to the thread's question would still be yes.

 

[Calvin]

Huh?

 

[Calvin]

The last part of my post was a tongue in cheek poke at that. But, even if you think you can get forgiveness again, you're still losing your salvation at some point if you do certain things, so the answer to the thread's question would still be yes.

What the hell are you talking about? There was nothing inflammatory in this post.

 

[Calvin]

Then you need to learn to quote, or speak more specifically.

Plus, it's pretty hard not to make fun of christianity, it's just so silly.

 

[Calvin]

Yes well, is this better? So, even after being politely being asked not too, you make fun of others beliefs, that shows a real lack of character on your part. I hope it's just part of your youth and that you'll grow out of it. You'll be in my prayers.

Your utter touchiness and over-insensitivity shows a lack of character on your part. And religion was part of my youth that I grew out of. Thankfully.

 

[Downhere]

I do believe a person can lose their salvation, but I think it's probably very difficult to do so. If a person turns their back on God for all their life, you can pretty much say they lost their salvation since they turned their backs on God never to return to him. But if a person asks for forgiveness and truly means it then they can be forgiven. Christ died for all sins, not just the "little" sins but also the "bigger" ones. The key is that the person can't be playing around when it comes to asking for forgiveness, they have to really mean it.

Well, I guess that's a simplified answer from a Christian perspective, but if you want a more in depth and serious answer, it would be wise to find a good pastor to discuss that with.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Yes well, is this better? So, even after being politely being asked not too, you make fun of others beliefs, that shows a real lack of character on your part. I hope it's just part of your youth and that you'll grow out of it. You'll be in my prayers.

Your touchiness over your own beliefs not only shows a lack of character (as Calvin pointed out) but a lack of faith. If you truly believe what you believe a lack of reverence or lack of faith on someone else view should not offend you in the slightest. You don't see Calvin raising kaine on this thread until you started in with the Mr.Sensitive routine.

 

[Sun_Down]

Glad to see this thread has descended into the typical Christianity vs. atheism debate instead of addressing the actual topic.

As far as I understand the Bible, so sin is unforgivable and even the most heinous of criminals can be saved, BUT you have to actually ask for it. I suppose that if never repented, you could "lose" your salvation.

Do I completely agree with the idea of rapist and murderers going to Heaven? Maybe not. But that is kind of the basis of Christianity.

 

[Noir]

...I don't want Hitler to be sharing a pie with me whenever I die.

 

[The Chairman]

I think it all depends on how great the sin is. I find that things like homosexuality, gluttony and even not necessarily believing in a higher power are ultimately venial sins that God will overlook in the long run (I personally don't even view homosexuality as a sin, especially since Jesus Christ never preached against it). However, I do agree that things like murder and rape are far harder to forgive. In the long run, it depends on the magnitude of the sin's effect on your life as well as that of others'.

 

[Noir]

I think it all depends on how great the sin is. I find that things like homosexuality, gluttony and even not necessarily believing in a higher power are ultimately venial sins that God will overlook in the long run (I personally don't even view homosexuality as a sin, especially since Jesus Christ never preached against it). However, I do agree that things like murder and rape are far harder to forgive. In the long run, it depends on the magnitude of the sin's effect on your life as well as that of others'.

...Didn't god blow up a city because guys were ****ing each other?

 

[Addendum]

So let me see if I understand this.

A person spends their life living out the teachings that are in the new testament (following the golden rule, love one another as yourself, living out the fruits of the spirit, being charitable, helping others in need) but they either don't say prayers at all, or they direct their prayers to a deity other than the christian one. Boom! off to hell when they die.

Then there's another person who has spent their entire life as a criminal and didn't even consider going to church or some bloke named jesus, and has passed through the ranks of criminal behavior, beginning with a stolen a pack of baseball cards from the corner store when they were 5, to playing hooky from school, to armed robbery, to becoming an adult and then graduating to arson, rape, and then murder and then becoming a serial killer on death row. Then some minister comes in the day before they die, speaks to them about christianity and the criminal decides to believe in jesus. They then go to heaven.

Sure, that makes sense.

Here's an interesting quote:

Religion...has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. That's an idea we're so familiar with, whether we subscribe to it or not, that it's kind of odd to think what it actually means, because really what it means is 'Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? — because you're not!' If somebody votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it, but on the other hand if somebody says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say, 'Fine, I respect that'. The odd thing is, even as I am saying that I am thinking 'Is there an Orthodox Jew here who is going to be offended by the fact that I just said that?' but I wouldn't have thought 'Maybe there's somebody from the left wing or somebody from the right wing or somebody who subscribes to this view or the other in economics' when I was making the other points. I just think 'Fine, we have different opinions'. But, the moment I say something that has something to do with somebody's (I'm going to stick my neck out here and say irrational) beliefs, then we all become terribly protective and terribly defensive and say 'No, we don't attack that; that's an irrational belief but no, we respect it'. - Douglas Adams

 

[FunBobPants]

nope

 

[ShadowBoxing]

So let me see if I understand this.

A person spends their life living out the teachings that are in the new testament (following the golden rule, love one another as yourself, living out the fruits of the spirit, being charitable, helping others in need) but they either don't say prayers at all, or they direct their prayers to a deity other than the christian one. Boom! off to hell when they die.

Depends on who you talk to. The Vatican, for example, actually states the opposite. The Bible itself states the opposite. It has a whole other series of laws or basic human decency that apply to non believers.

 

[Mee]

So let me see if I understand this.

A person spends their life living out the teachings that are in the new testament (following the golden rule, love one another as yourself, living out the fruits of the spirit, being charitable, helping others in need) but they either don't say prayers at all, or they direct their prayers to a deity other than the christian one. Boom! off to hell when they die.

Well, "thou shalt have no other god before me."

So, probably. As for living a good life, following commandments without believing in any god,= still go to Heaven, I dunno. By nature we're all sinners, without belief in God though you wouldn't repent your sins. However "minor" they may be.

 

[The Chairman]

I have never believed in only Christians going to Heaven. And frankly, most Christians I know don't even believe that anymore (especially Catholics, which is what I was raised as) Judging by my onw knwoledge and perspective view of God, God couldn't really care less if you believed him or not. He cares more if you are a good, moral person who lived a respectable life and never brought harm to anyone or yourself. He cares more if you follow his ways and not necessarily his name.

 

[Warhammer]

Some people do feel they can do whatever they want, and then repent on their death bed, as The Simpsons have poked fun at countless times. It doesn't give you carte blanche to go nuts if you decide to choose that path, that's not what it's about. I'm not a devout religious person, but I do have a spiritual side.

I agree.
I'm sure that some already know where I stand on this, since I have made my fair share of religious threads.