Canada is under attack

[Feenix]

Canada.

 

[Thundercrack85]

A man was shot by a nut. It's unfortunate but it happens. A lot.

I think the country will survive.

This thread title is an overreaction.

 

[Feenix]

Not to us. Why don't you understand that?

Yes, Canada isn't under attack, but it was a terrorist attack on our parliament building.

You seriously cannot be making the argument that because "it happens a lot", it's not a concern.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Didn't realize Canada was so... what's the word I'm looking for here? Innocent?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/22/terrorists-end-canada-s-innocence.html

 

[Feenix]

I don't see your point.

 

[DeadPresident]

You make some fair points, even if I think they are a bit speculative. It does seem like the people most likely to get radicalized are those freshly introduced to the faith, and perhaps misunderstanding of it.

I agree completely, I'm not trying to make substantive claims, just wondering out loud. A few of these incidents make it seem like the people who are marginalized select Islam primarily because it is faith quite similar to Christianity, but ideologically it's mainstream association is that it is opposed to the West. You also raise a good point about people "freshly introduced", because precisely like Christianity the Quran contains scripture you could use to justify it as a peaceful religion, or verses you could use for the opposite. So these don't seem to be people that are intimately acquainted with Islam as a religion, rather that they're subscribing to the mainstream narrative of "Islam = terrorism", ironically reproducing the stigma that the peaceful majority of Muslims are trying to escape.

Not to trivialize the issue, but it's like a kid from a broken home doing something his mother likes that he knows pisses off his dad, or vice versa. Again, I might be off here, but I find it telling that internal acts of terrorism seem to be perpetrated not only by citizens with gripes about a country's state of being, but they do it (erroneously, like all terrorist acts) in the name of a faith that they think will add insult to injury, literally.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I think people need to stop pretending that radical Islam is some fringe element. It's not the majority, but it's certainly not the same as Christianity, where the violent radicals are a negligible minority.

At least of quarter of Islam is made up of Jihadists, Islamists, and sympathizers.

That's about 400 million people. Granted, most of them live outside of North America, but this is not some inconsequential number. And the scary thing is that the number seems to be growing.

 

[DeadPresident]

A man was shot by a nut. It's unfortunate but it happens. A lot.

I think the country will survive.

This thread title is an overreaction.

I agree with some of your assertions, but Canadians are reacting now similarly to how Americans must have reacted to the growing small-scale terrorist attacks in the 2000s. Just because American civil society has (unfortunately) grown used to their malls and streets being used as an ideological battleground doesn't really mean Canadians shouldn't be alarmed at the possibility that their country might be transforming into the same thing.

This kind of act sets a precedent, and Canada being so peaceful and trusting of its residents makes it a soft target specifically because they don't have the measures to deal with sporadic terrorist attacks.

I think people need to stop pretending that radical Islam is some fringe element. It's not the majority, but it's certainly not the same as Christianity, where the violent radicals are a negligible minority.

At least of quarter of Islam is made up of Jihadists, Islamists, and sympathizers.

That's about 400 million people. Granted, most of them live outside of North America, but this is not some inconsequential number. And the scary thing is that the number seems to be growing.

That number seems a bit high, don't you think? I'm not being sarcastic. Perhaps though the constant need to publicly admit to and placate people with "We know it's a minority, we know it's a minority" in discussions like these has lead to people subconsciously avoiding attributing a number to it...But I guess technically 30% is still a minority compared to 70%, but 30% of 1,000,000,000 people is still a lot of people.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's really not. Now there is a distinction between Jihadist and Islamist. An Islamist would for example be in favor of killing someone who left Islam. But they may not be willing to do the killing themselves.

Several polls have found for example, that most Muslims in large Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Egypt support the death penalty for apostasy. And also for insulting the Prophet, or defaming Islam in general.

And this doesn't even get into more extreme examples like widespread calls for the death of a teacher in Sudan who allowing a teddy bear to be named Muhammed by her students. She was actually prosecuted by the state (though not given a death sentence, but there was calls for that by religious leaders in the country).

Or the Danish cartoons...

So actual Jihadists who go out and murder / attack people, would probably account for about 10%. But people who support them, might amount to another 20, if not more. Probably significantly more, but it's hard to really measure that.

 

[DeadPresident]

Perhaps you're right. I think, for better or worse, we're in a social climate where identifying a problem requires people to go with the less jarring definition or categorization which may lead to under-selling the threat. Even using accurate statistical facts would be classed as fear-mongering by some because those facts are a little alarming to consider.

As with all cases in human history though, change won't occur until the 11th hour and much worse crimes have been perpetrated than one man getting shot by another. Journalists are getting beheaded on a monthly basis and nobody is willing to do anything yet. It's going to take an unprecedented attack before people will try to clearly define the problem head on, and even then maybe it won't happen.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Religion is tricky.

 

[Sentarous]

I think people need to stop pretending that radical Islam is some fringe element. It's not the majority, but it's certainly not the same as Christianity, where the violent radicals are a negligible minority.

Whilst not with the current pope, I don’t think the concept of the Papal State calling for a new crusade is as archaic as we believe it is. All it takes is for one extremist pope to make the push for one and with the growing nature of radical Islam I think it’s improbable but certainly not impossible. The thing is I don’t know how my political leaders would treat a call for a crusade but I definitely think it could be far more frightening as the “small” jihadist acts of terrorism have been because I think a lot of Christian nations would follow the call for a crusade and the world would suffer for it much more.

*shrug*

Just thinking out loud, I guess.

 

[vkxpmoroeyg]

Reports that at least one has escaped.

 

[regwec]

I think saying that Canada is under attack is a bit of a stretch.

Title is a bit misleading man.

Okay, this thread title would only work if someone invaded Canada. Like the Russians. Or America. Or maybe aliens.

In America we call this a slow news day.

It was a concerted attack in a national legislature, at the heart of a free country's democracy. I would have chosen a different thread title (if I made a thread at all) if someone had been shot dead in the street. The thread title was accurate, in my opinion.

 

[KevanG]

If someone had done the same thing outside of Congress or the White House then it'd be just a big a deal if not more so.

 

[Sentarous]

If someone had done the same thing outside of Congress or the White House then it'd be just a big a deal if not more so.

More so, because American Media Commentators love to sensationalize stuff like this; warranted or not. This crap would be exploding right now if this happened in the States. People dismissing it because of “Canada” are ridiculous and wrong.

 

[Schlosser85]

Whilst not with the current pope, I don’t think the concept of the Papal State calling for a new crusade is as archaic as we believe it is. All it takes is for one extremist pope to make the push for one and with the growing nature of radical Islam I think it’s improbable but certainly not impossible. The thing is I don’t know how my political leaders would treat a call for a crusade but I definitely think it could be far more frightening as the “small” jihadist acts of terrorism have been because I think a lot of Christian nations would follow the call for a crusade and the world would suffer for it much more.

*shrug*

Just thinking out loud, I guess.

I definitely don't see the nations of the world joining in a religious crusade just because some psychopathic Pope calls for one. This isn't the Middle Ages. Plenty of people, including increasing numbers of Catholics, don't care what Popes have to say anymore.

 

[Sentarous]

You’re probably right, but that’s mostly due to the power that the Pope has over world leaders isn’t prominent anymore. Nobody cares if the Papal State is going to excommunicate them or brand them a heretic or deny them a divorce/marriage. The power has fallen more on actual governments now. Probably for the best.

 

[regwec]

Veering off topic somewhat: what is the point in being a Roman Catholic if you don't take the whole papacy thing very seriously? Doesn't that by definition make you a protestant, albeit of the high church variety? Apologies to any Catholics who find the question insensitive.

 

[Feenix]

If someone had done the same thing outside of Congress or the White House then it'd be just a big a deal if not more so.

There was a guy who jumped the fence around the White House yesterday and it made the news. A terrorist attack in Washington, no matter how "small", would definitely be a big deal.

Thundercrack's post was disrespectful and just stupid.

 

[SuperFerret]

How the **** is this the first I'm hearing about this?

 

[DarkSentinel]

If any country DOESN'T deserve a terrorist attack, it's Canada.

 

[kane9321]

awesome..they are giving the guy that shot the gunman a standing ovation as parliment reopens

SPEAKING FRENCH....NOW

 

[Lily Adler]

I'm going to have to side with Cosmic on this one. This was a VERY big deal. It's the same as if someone sieged Congress.

 

[Pink Ranger]

It's disturbing when one pairs it with the events of Monday. We need to watch things closely now.