Cap vs Wolvie

[Cyclops]

Nah, I'm not much of a bandwagoner, honestly. Everybody and their uncle's neighbor's cousin's best friend's barber makes Republican jokes.

"Didja hear the one about Tom DeLay?"
"Yes. A thousand times. Yesterday."

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I just leave it to Jon Stewart. He's much better at it than I am.

 

[Ookami_Wolf1]

Captain America. 'nuff said.

 

[ScarletSpider]

You know, for all of Wolverine's vast and incredible skills that he supposedly has....

Where are they? I just see him snarl and leap into combat head first, trusting more in claws and hard bones than skill. So where are these superior combat skills that he has?

In the hands of good writers who understand Logan's history, yet will unfortunatly not get the oppurtunity to write for Wolverine, atleast for now.

I voted for Wolvie, but fact is (as it is in most versus threads), there's never a clear winner. We could all argue for days on end, but there'd never be a definitive answer. Not trying to take the 'fun' away from the discusion though, haha.

 

[antonydelfini]

steve's got better moves and skills, but james is just too agressive and relentless that even cap will be forced to brawl with him., not to mention his healing magic. but cap is just one savy dude when fighting so i'd say its a tie.

 

[KAD]

Wolverine after a long fight

 

[Spoarz™]

Wolverine just wins it for me, especially considering he can heal.

 

[KAD]

In almost every Marvel fight (excluding Ultimate) the two have been portrayed as fairly equal regarding fighting prowess so I don't understand all the comments about Cap's experience being a deciding factor.

IMO it comes down to Wolverines mutant abilities and his violent nature.

By the way didn't Wolverine knock Cap out to save his ass when they first met?

 

[KAD]

Captain America. He's faster and stronger than Wolverine, and unless you're a cosmic deity Cap wins. Oh, and I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but Captain America never tires thanks to the Super Soldier Serum. It is impossible for Cap to become exhausted, so he'll be fighting at peak strength constantly.

HUH?

 

[KAD]

The Silver Samurai is ultimately still a villain. And no, Logan would never kill Cap in good conscience. Otherwise, you really don't know Wolverine.

If you don't realize that the two of them going at it full tilt would eventually bring out the killer in Logan, the you don't know the character very well.

I don't think Cap couldn't win but he wouldn't often.

 

[KAD]

You know, for all of Wolverine's vast and incredible skills that he supposedly has....

Where are they? I just see him snarl and leap into combat head first, trusting more in claws and hard bones than skill. So where are these superior combat skills that he has?

Go read the first Wolveriune limited.

Many examples of his skill as well as why he ussually doesnt employ them.

Wolverine Kitty Pryde limited. More skill examples.

The Dark Pheonix saga. Examples of ruthlessness, planning and restraint.

Into the Savage land against Garrok: Stealthe, ruthlessness

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Notice how most of those examples of skill are way back in the past. I could bring up examples of Thor using super-speed because he had it about 30 years ago, by those standards. Wolverine's current portrayals have overwhelmingly been basically a portrait of a bar-room brawler. He counts on his healing factor to soak up damage and just hacks at things. The only recent example I can think of where he showed some sign of skill was in "Enemy of the State," and he was being mind-controlled then. Even as far back as the '80s, he couldn't even take the Black Knight, let alone Cap, who's at least as good a fighter as the Knight and very likely better.

 

[Harlekin]

If you don't realize that the two of them going at it full tilt would eventually bring out the killer in Logan, the you don't know the character very well.

I don't think Cap couldn't win but he wouldn't often.

Then Wolverine really has been degraded to a little mongrel. There were actually times that Wolverine was able to control the killer inside. Guess those days are over.

 

[KAD]

Notice how most of those examples of skill are way back in the past. I could bring up examples of Thor using super-speed because he had it about 30 years ago, by those standards. Wolverine's current portrayals have overwhelmingly been basically a portrait of a bar-room brawler. He counts on his healing factor to soak up damage and just hacks at things. The only recent example I can think of where he showed some sign of skill was in "Enemy of the State," and he was being mind-controlled then. Even as far back as the '80s, he couldn't even take the Black Knight, let alone Cap, who's at least as good a fighter as the Knight and very likely better.

Notice how you always want to discount the characters origins or history.

Also notice that back in the 80's they were trying to jump start sales in the Avengers by giving them a cool new image (Anyone remember the god awful jacket phase) Wolverine was a scapegoat in those issues.

Wolverine has fought the Hulk, Gods, Alpha Flight, Thanos.

Oh and let us not forget: Of all the heroes chosen to assault Thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet who is the only one to land a killing blow?

Was it his healing factor or tactical skill that led to his hit?

Is this also to old of a reference?

 

[KAD]

Then Wolverine really has been degraded to a little mongrel. There were actually times that Wolverine was able to control the killer inside. Guess those days are over.

Actually he has fluctuated between control and the loss of it.

He has never stopped trying to master his inner demons and perhaps with the return of his memory he finally has.

 

[Darthphere]

Notice how you always want to discount the characters origins or history.

Also notice that back in the 80's they were trying to jump start sales in the Avengers by giving them a cool new image (Anyone remember the god awful jacket phase) Wolverine was a scapegoat in those issues.

Wolverine has fought the Hulk, Gods, Alpha Flight, Thanos.

Oh and let us not forget: Of all the heroes chosen to assault Thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet who is the only one to land a killing blow?

Was it his healing factor or tactical skill that led to his hit?

Is this also to old of a reference?

Yes, the Wolverine of today is much different than the Wolverine of 5 year ago, maybe even more recently than that.

 

[KAD]

Notice how most of those examples of skill are way back in the past.

As if Cap fighting and killing Nazis isn't in the past

 

[Harlekin]

Actually he has fluctuated between control and the loss of it.

He has never stopped trying to master his inner demons and perhaps with the return of his memory he finally has.

I know. I do actually know the character, but although the level of control was usually thin, berserker rage doesn't come into it that soon. I say Cap takes him out before that.

 

[KAD]

Then Wolverine really has been degraded to a little mongrel. There were actually times that Wolverine was able to control the killer inside. Guess those days are over.

On another note. Wolverine has only once in my mind resisted succumbing to his Killer instinct when driven to the edge and that was against Ogun.

There have been many times when he resisted a beserker rage but there are just as many instances where we see him injured in a fight and he goes for the throat.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Notice how you always want to discount the characters origins or history.

Also notice that back in the 80's they were trying to jump start sales in the Avengers by giving them a cool new image (Anyone remember the god awful jacket phase) Wolverine was a scapegoat in those issues.

Wolverine has fought the Hulk, Gods, Alpha Flight, Thanos.

Oh and let us not forget: Of all the heroes chosen to assault Thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet who is the only one to land a killing blow?

Was it his healing factor or tactical skill that led to his hit?

Is this also to old of a reference?

Yeah, I've discounted the character's entire history and, somehow, his origin (which I never even mentioned in the first place) by noting that the vast majority of his more recent appearances have shown him as a brutish savage.

Cap's fought the same people Wolverine has, and he's done reasonably well against them. Wolverine has a far from spotless record against those high-level characters himself, and he has far more crappy showings against much lower-powered characters than he does good showings against high-powered ones. I'm not saying Wolverine hasn't done well against characters of various power levels in the past and even more recently, I'm just saying that in recent memory, Cap has shown much more fighting skill than Wolverine has.

Having a certain amount of training doesn't mean you'll forever be at the peak of your fighting prowess. The comics seem to imply that Wolverine's let his training fall by the wayside in favor of a more savage, berserker fighting style lately, while Cap is still fighting well enough to take down entire Hydra bases, a cosmic cube-empowered Red Skull, and others on his own with just a shield and no healing factor. There's no need to get offended and start throwing around childish overgeneralizations just because someone points that out.

 

[LibrarianThorne]

Cap has taken down people with a Cosmic Cube, fer chrissakes. Twice, even. He's managed to find a weak point on THANOS, of all people.

And this arguement of "Wolverine's a killer with berserker rage, so of course he beats Cap!" holds so little water. How many violent superkillers has Cap taken down in the past? Somewhere around 5 dozen, probably. There's U.S. Agent, the crazy superpowered super soldier that showed up in Miller's Daredevil run, not to mention Cap has taken down the Hulk. Oh, and there's the Nazi supermen that Cap took out.

Look at Mark Waid's run on Captain America for yet more evidence of Cap's skill. He can, on skill alone, walk into a group of thirty armed men and almost effortlessly take them down. No mutant healing factor or claws or berzerker rage, just sheer skill. He's been said by just about everybody (including Reed Richards) to have the best tactical mind on Marvel's Earth, and is rated as one of its best martial artists, if not the best.

 

[KAD]

Yeah, I've discounted the character's entire history and, somehow, his origin (which I never even mentioned in the first place) by noting that the vast majority of his more recent appearances have shown him as a brutish savage.

Cap's fought the same people Wolverine has, and he's done reasonably well against them. Wolverine has a far from spotless record against those high-level characters himself, and he has far more crappy showings against much lower-powered characters than he does good showings against high-powered ones. I'm not saying Wolverine hasn't done well against characters of various power levels in the past and even more recently, I'm just saying that in recent memory, Cap has shown much more fighting skill than Wolverine has.

Having a certain amount of training doesn't mean you'll forever be at the peak of your fighting prowess. The comics seem to imply that Wolverine's let his training fall by the wayside in favor of a more savage, berserker fighting style lately, while Cap is still fighting well enough to take down entire Hydra bases, a cosmic cube-empowered Red Skull, and others on his own with just a shield and no healing factor. There's no need to get offended and start throwing around childish overgeneralizations just because someone points that out.

Theres nothing childish about expressing my point of view.

an examples of your example:

Cap vs Hulk: Cap is at best a delaying tactic

W vs Hulk: W is a serious threat


No comic has ever stated that W has stopped training. If I am incorrect please point it out.

Cap taking out Hydra bases or a cosmic cube-empowered Red is in the past according to you so it doesnt count.

It was at one point common to see Cap workout, we dont see this that often anymore.

Should we assume he is no longer keeping in shape.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There's something very childish about taking the fact that Wolverine's been shown in the comics to fight with less skill lately and spinning it to accuse me of discounting literally everything about the character. I don't know if Wolverine is your favorite character and you're very territorial about him or what, but you're not usually that much of a *****e.

I wasn't aware a comic had to explicitly state something to back up what's shown right there for all to see. Wolverine obviously has some subconscious knowledge of his training still, since he was definitely using it in "Enemy of the State," but he rarely relies on it in a fight when his mind is his own. That's indisputable because it's plastered all over nearly every comic appearance Wolverine has had in the last few years. If you want to do a comparison, though, Wolverine's shown training what, about once every year these days? Cap's shown training or exercising or running SHIELD missions that test his skills in almost every issue of his series.

And this arguement of "Wolverine's a killer with berserker rage, so of course he beats Cap!" holds so little water. How many violent superkillers has Cap taken down in the past? Somewhere around 5 dozen, probably. There's U.S. Agent, the crazy superpowered super soldier that showed up in Miller's Daredevil run, not to mention Cap has taken down the Hulk. Oh, and there's the Nazi supermen that Cap took out.

Heh, one of my favorite panels ever is where Cap floors the merged Hulk with a judo move. The look on the Hulk's face is priceless.

 

[KAD]

Cap has taken down people with a Cosmic Cube, fer chrissakes. Twice, even. He's managed to find a weak point on THANOS, of all people.

And this arguement of "Wolverine's a killer with berserker rage, so of course he beats Cap!" holds so little water. How many violent superkillers has Cap taken down in the past? Somewhere around 5 dozen, probably. There's U.S. Agent, the crazy superpowered super soldier that showed up in Miller's Daredevil run, not to mention Cap has taken down the Hulk. Oh, and there's the Nazi supermen that Cap took out.

Look at Mark Waid's run on Captain America for yet more evidence of Cap's skill. He can, on skill alone, walk into a group of thirty armed men and almost effortlessly take them down. No mutant healing factor or claws or berzerker rage, just sheer skill. He's been said by just about everybody (including Reed Richards) to have the best tactical mind on Marvel's Earth, and is rated as one of its best martial artists, if not the best.

When did Cap take out the Hulk?

I'd believe one of the best but not the best.

 

[KAD]

Heh, one of my favorite panels ever is where Cap floors the merged Hulk with a judo move. The look on the Hulk's face is priceless.

One of my favorites is when the merged Hulk ties Cap up with a lamp post while Japanese tourists take photos