The Dark Knight Capes and Cowls - New Batsuit Discussion Thread

[SheldonLevene]

Well bale said that it required a lot of effort to move his hands and his neck acked badly from trying to move his head in the cowl.

But i dont care how bale feels. I care about the result on camera. And other than the bulging armpits and the bending abs (they bended badly when he went to fetch the antidote in the cave), i didnt find anything wrong with the Begins suit. I even liked the small bulging that the neck made when he moved his head. It was kinda organic and natural.

That was what I was trying to say. Anytime someone wears rubber it is going to bend. Rubber does not flow. It is flexible yeah, but not that much so. Oh I liked the neck too.

 

[Sandouras]

That was what I was trying to say. Anytime someone wears rubber it is going to bend. Rubber does not flow. It is flexible yeah, but not that much so. Oh I liked the neck too.

Well giving him knightly shoulder pads doesnt solve the problem of the bulging armpits. I really cant stomach them on him.

They could have gone with the scarlett solution. The material between the pads wouldnt bulge as much as rubber and he wouldnt look like that. It would be much better.

 

[The Guard]

Well bale said that it required a lot of effort to move his hands and his neck acked badly from trying to move his head in the cowl.

Keaton was smart enough to figure that one out. If Bale couldn't figure out that he couldn't move his head...

But i dont care how bale feels. I care about the result on camera. And other than the bulging armpits and the bending abs (they bended badly when he went to fetch the antidote in the cave), i didnt find anything wrong with the Begins suit. I even liked the small bulging that the neck made when he moved his head. It was kinda organic and natural.

See, I just don't care if the suit doesn't always look "smooth". It was described as flexible armor in BATMAN BEGINS, so it flexed.

I'm pretty sure foam latex is not what typical wetsuits are made of. That suit in BB was at least a 1/4-1/2 inch thick in areas.

"Akin to a wetsuit". Not "a wetsuit".

 

[lujho]

Okay, so this isn't perfect - the arms are a bit blah, and the whole thing looks a bit like hard leather or something, when it isn't meant to be. It would look better with the Begins chest emblem, IMO, and it would be nice to see it with some kind of woven fabric texture - or perhaps a skin-like texture.

But anyway:

 

[Mr. Superhero]

By the way, Guard: I responded to your post on the previous page, only it was the last post, so you it may have passed you by...

 

[Kaizer]

 

[SheldonLevene]

Lujho that's quite good. I always like your manips quite a bit. I wish the arms had maybe a cut in them or something so you could tell where the bicep meets the forearm, but other than that pretty good. And I still like the shoulder pads.

 

[The Guard]

Well, it's probably no coincidence that the plating is cut to aid Bale's groin, thigh and knee movement; so I think it's safe to say that the design is at least 50% logical.

To a point.

As for the random plates, I honestly think it's purposefully rendered to create a unique design of some sort; all while corresponding with the plates that aid Bale's movement.[/quote]

It's definitely unique...I don't know how well it actually corresponds designwise.

Nolan simply tried to make something "uBer cool". Whether that worked or not is entirely subjective.

Yep.

 

[Wams]

 

[lujho]

Guys, he didn't wear "slabs of rubber" on his legs in BATMAN BEGINS. He wore a molded rubber suit that had some flexibility to it. It's akin to a wetsuit almost, and anyone who has constructed one of these will be able to tell you. It's not all that difficult to move in. It is the CAPE that makes moving around as Batman more of a challenge, and they've obviously made an attempt to solve that by making the cape behind him now.

And, yes, the suit in BATMAN BEGINS could bend, was flexible, etc. Which is why it was described as flexible, lightweight armor. That was half the point of it.

No, it was a wetsuit, with MORE moulded rubber stuck to it.

And while you often state how much movement the Begins suit has, there IS a difference between range of movement and resistance. It's obvious Bale had a decent range of movement, but think about the resitance the suit would have to movement. It's like a rubber band - the bigger it is the harder it is to stretch.

The amount of force the wearer needs to exert to move his limbs in various positions would be greater on a wetsuit with rubber parts stuck to it than on just a wetsuit - or a wetsuit where there are no extra rubber bits at the joints. Repeating those movements over and over again would become tiring and make it more difficult to move as easily as the first couple of movements - just like lifting weights.

So while you're right that the Begins suit technically allowed a decent range of movement, we don't neccessarily know how that translated to EASE of movement, especially when wearing the thing 12 hours a day.

Bale has already said the new suit is more comfortable so the more gaps thing probably is a benefit.

 

[The Guard]

So it is akin to a wetsuit, yes? With rubber on the outside?

It doesn't look that hard to move around in. That's really all I care about as a film watcher.

At some point people will become able to seperate "what something is" from "what the movie says it is, and therefore why what it DOES making sense".

 

[lujho]

So it is akin to a wetsuit, yes? With rubber on the outside?

Yeah, but a wetsuit is only one layer so it's like wearing 2 wetsuits or something. That's going to be harder to move in, no?

It doesn't look that hard to move around in. That's really all I care about as a film watcher.

To walk around in and act, no, it doesn't look that hard to move in, even if it maybe was. But for action, we don't get much or a look at how easy it might have been, dur to the way it's shot (or, it was shot that way because of how hard it was to move).

Like I said, that extra resistance may have actually physicaly hampered his movement. Maybe slowed it down. Yes, he could do that jump from the rooftop, but could he (or the stuntman) have done an extended, clearly shot fight scene without looking like he was having difficulty? We don't know, but it's obvious that a garment with less resistance is going to make such things easier.

It's hard to imagine Tony Jaa doing a 4 minute fight scene quite as well when wearing 2 layers of rubber.

 

[blues_ux]

that's a really great manip lujho
good job, but i prefer the TDK suit as is SO much more. the only minor gripe i have with the tdk suit is the leggings have a bizarre pattern, the boots are plain, and the emblem is a bit too small for my taste but i still love the new suit nonetheless

 

[The Guard]

To walk around in and act, no, it doesn't look that hard to move in, even if it maybe was. But for action, we don't get much or a look at how easy it might have been, dur to the way it's shot (or, it was shot that way because of how hard it was to move).

And again, I don't really care how easy it is. As long as it doesn't look restrictive, which it really doesn't.

Like I said, that extra resistance may have actually physicaly hampered his movement. Maybe slowed it down. Yes, he could do that jump from the rooftop, but could he (or the stuntman) have done an extended, clearly shot fight scene without looking like he was having difficulty? We don't know, but it's obvious that a garment with less resistance is going to make such things easier.

I don't know that we're ever going to get an extended, clearly shot fight scene. That's just not Nolan's style. But the confrontation with the ninjas toward the end of BATMAN BEGINS showed me he can move well enough.

 

[lujho]

that's a really great manip lujho
good job, but i prefer the TDK suit as is SO much more. the only minor gripe i have with the tdk suit is the leggings have a bizarre pattern, the boots are plain, and the emblem is a bit too small for my taste but i still love the new suit nonetheless

I just can't wrap my head around this, no offense. I just don't understand people preferring something that is so un-neccessarily different from the comic.

I mean, if we had got something like that manip, would half of us have clamoured for something wildy different.

Were there thousands of fans who though the Iron Man or Spider-Man costume were too close to the comics and really, really wanted something less faithful? I think that's just a crazy position.

 

[lujho]

I don't know that we're ever going to get an extended, clearly shot fight scene. That's just not Nolan's style.

I just think that that's absolutely, fundamentally WRONG for a Batman movie. If that's just not Nolan's style than Nolan himself is wrong for Batman. I know I'm in a minority but I simply cannot understand how anyone can actually enjoy watching the action scenes in Nolan's film. They're just a blight on the film.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Okay, so this isn't perfect - the arms are a bit blah, and the whole thing looks a bit like hard leather or something, when it isn't meant to be. It would look better with the Begins chest emblem, IMO, and it would be nice to see it with some kind of woven fabric texture - or perhaps a skin-like texture.

But anyway:

I gotta admit so far thats probably the best manip of the new suit ive seen.

 

[blues_ux]

I just can't wrap my head around this, no offense. I just don't understand people preferring something that is so un-neccessarily different from the comic.

I mean, if we had got something like that manip, would half of us have clamoured for something wildy different.

Were there thousands of fans who though the Iron Man or Spider-Man costume were too close to the comics and really, really wanted something less faithful? I think that's just a crazy position.

i kinda get what you're saying, and in my opinion, i dont like the comic book costume that much (its alright) but i do think it works for the comics themselves, but i can also see a manip like what you made work for a move like TDK.
i dont know, i just prefer the TDK suit. it looks like something someone would wear if Batman existed in the real world

 

[lujho]

i kinda get what you're saying, and in my opinion, i dont like the comic book costume that much (its alright) but i do think it works for the comics themselves, but i can also see a manip like what you made work for a move like TDK.
i dont know, i just prefer the TDK suit. it looks like something someone would wear if Batman existed in the real world

That's fair enough, I guess, I just find it weird that there Batman fans who don't place as much importance on the original source - who don't care if it doesn't look like Bob Kane or Neal Adams or Dave Mazzuchelli or whomever. People who would actually prefer something else. It's alien to me.

 

[regwec]

I just can't wrap my head around this, no offense. I just don't understand people preferring something that is so un-neccessarily different from the comic.

It's because people get lose their powers of judgement when they are excited about a movie. It returns around a year later, before it lies dormant again in anticipation of the sequel.

 

[The Guard]

Some of it is because a lot of people come into this having been introduced to the character via the movies. And some of it is that people just like things that are techy and cool looking. To each his own.

 

[Saint]

I'm pretty sure foam latex is not what typical wetsuits are made of. That suit in BB was at least a 1/4-1/2 inch thick in areas.

The bodysuit wasn't made of foam rubber--it was made of comparably thin neoprene, with foam rubber pieces glued on top. You can see the neoprene showing through at the joints, mostly.

The talk about leg mobility is ridiculous, anyway: Batman's legs were perfectly mobile in Begins, despite the foam rubber detailing. The Begins suit mobility issues were all the result of the ridiculously bulky torso; if they had taken the same conservative, organic approach they used on the arms and legs and applied it to the torso, then used some approximation of the TDK neck/cowl configuration, that suit would have fulfilled all mobility requirements and would have looked good, too.

 

[Saint]

Okay, so this isn't perfect - the arms are a bit blah, and the whole thing looks a bit like hard leather or something, when it isn't meant to be. It would look better with the Begins chest emblem, IMO, and it would be nice to see it with some kind of woven fabric texture - or perhaps a skin-like texture.

But anyway:

Sweet Jesus, Lujho. This is exactly what I've had in my head every time I've talked about a streamlined version of the Begins suit. Not only would this work as a neoprene/foam rubber costume, but it would look great using a fabric solution and pretty much anything else I can think of. That's just badass. Really, somebody should give you a goddamn medal.

 

[Mandalore464]

This thread reminds me a lot of the stupid debate that was all around the web at the time Revenge of the Sith came out, namely : "If you like it you're not a real original Star Wars fan vs. If you don't like it you're just an old ******ed Carrie Fisher fan who can't go with the flow".

It's because people get lose their powers of judgement when they are excited about a movie. It returns around a year later, before it lies dormant again in anticipation of the sequel.

Well same goes for geeky "it-doesn't-look-like-the-source-material" whining and that's not directed to you regwec but to whomever will take offense in my saying so, proof that it applies to them.

Why can't you people just agree that some people are BOTH still in possession of their power of judgement and still accept the TDK suit? It's not even a matter of loving it but of accepting it, of CONCEDING it works, no matter how far it is from a cloth suit.

It's not a question of being pro-Nolan, pro-comics or whatever, it's just that some people understand that this is a MOVIE and that things that might work in a comic book don't work or look silly in a film. It's also a matter of accepting that the vision of a particular director might differ from what we would expect and yet still result in a pretty damn good movie.

It's been said over and over that this Batman is supposed to be believable, and as blues_ux said :

it looks like something someone would wear if Batman existed in the real world

So get over it, complain about the jigsaw leg section for as long as you want, and try not to think too much about us people who're gonna watch the movie in july and enjoy it while you'll all still be here writing about how much you hate the frigging suit.

 

[Saint]

Explain how subway map leggings resemble something Batman would wear "in the real world."