The Dark Knight Capes and Cowls - New Batsuit Discussion Thread

[lujho]

I just think its to big, and it comes down to his mouth to much. Its makes Batman look like he has a stuffy nose.

You guys see what I'm saying?

Hmm. Well, every movie bat-cowl has had a bit of rubber that goes under the nose, instead of leaving it open like in the comics. That would add a little bit to the length of the nose, and I don't see how it's neccessary, especially with the new helmet style (I think they always put it there so the cowl would stay in place when he tilted his head down).

Anyway, I still think a BTAS/JLU style beak would be awesome and totally work in real life.

 

[Dark Knigh7]

Hmm. Well, every movie bat-cowl has had a bit of rubber that goes under the nose, instead of leaving it open like in the comics. That would add a little bit to the length of the nose, and I don't see how it's neccessary, especially with the new helmet style (I think they always put it there so the cowl would stay in place when he tilted his head down).

Anyway, I still think a BTAS/JLU style beak would be awesome and totally work in real life.

I understand why they do it in the movies, but I thought it looked fine in Begins, and every other bat-flick we have, but it just looks to big for Bales head.

 

[Sandouras]

I understand why they do it in the movies, but I thought it looked fine in Begins, and every other bat-flick we have, but it just looks to big for Bales head.

If they didnt close the beak under the actor's nose, the cowl would come loose. It looks nice as well.

In TDK's case, they made the beak a mile long, so that the cowl covers the upper lip a bit so that the jaw looks bigger.

In any case, they could have done a lot better. Its like they werent thinking. And those nerves that run all the way to his beak are too toned.

 

[Dark Knigh7]

In TDK's case, they made the beak a mile long, so that the cowl covers the upper lip a bit so that the jaw looks bigger.

In any case, they could have done a lot better. Its like they werent thinking. And those nerves that run all the way to his beak are too toned.

Thats what it is. It covers his upper lip to much.

 

[youngbat]

There's only one problem. Batman doesn't smile!

Ya, it does sort of look like he's smiling in this pic. it really is just the way the light hits it though. here is the Bale sculpture that this cowl was done on.

more pics at:http//www.dullam-causey.com/gallery

 

[Sandouras]

Thats what it is. It covers his upper lip to much.

They are trying to imitate BTAS. They try to show the lip high up so that he gets a big manly jaw. I suppose that a thin cowl like the ones used on Kilmer or Clooney would suck on Bale's head. He is hansome and dark to play BW, but he really needs a jaw transplant to play BM.

Anyway, i would really like it if the suit was toned down. If batman looked more like a dark creature without details here and there. I dont particularly care for the seamwork on his crotch or the pads on his arms. The suit in BB was really subtle most of the time. This is intrusive and vulgar while it could have been the better one if they used the technique that we saw on Scarlett's suit, meaning, incorporate the pads in the overall suit. Dont make him wear them with freaking straps!

 

[superkong 500]

They are trying to imitate BTAS. They try to show the lip high up so that he gets a big manly jaw. I suppose that a thin cowl like the ones used on Kilmer or Clooney would suck on Bale's head. He is hansome and dark to play BW, but he really needs a jaw transplant to play BM.

Anyway, i would really like it if the suit was toned down. If batman looked more like a dark creature without details here and there. I dont particularly care for the seamwork on his crotch or the pads on his arms. The suit in BB was really subtle most of the time. This is intrusive and vulgar while it could have been the better one if they used the technique that we saw on Scarlett's suit, meaning, incorporate the pads in the overall suit. Dont make him wear them with freaking straps!

Yep that's how I see it. The thing is that i like the new suit from a technical point of view it looks techie cool but not for batman. If this was a metal gear solid suit then I would be happy. But this is batman I would have loved a design similar to the begins one(aeasthetic wise) but with a different thinner material and maybe like someone else said, some gaps in between the abdominal area and in bettween the crotch and the top of the thigh for more movility and less seams or bulges. While keeping the more creaturesque aspects and aesthetics of the BB suit.

Also The one thing that to me bothers most is the contrast in tone between the different parts of the suit specially the chest plate. Could't they make it black uniform. Simply said its a suit with too many pieces and double tones and really distracts the eye and not in a good way.

 

[The Guard]

I stopped caring about Bale's Batman jaw years ago. While I recognize that he doesn't have it, an angular look works for the character, who is all sharp edges and whatnot.

I can't figure out who the hell decided jigsaw legs made any sense. Why would the armour be designed like that? It's completely beyond rational explanation. The rest of the suit, despite the fact that it's not Batman, makes some degree of fictional sense, but the legs? What the hell? The pattern doesn't even conform to muscle groups. It doesn't conform to anything. It has no purpose, practically or aesthetically. It doesn't look like armour, it doesn't look realistic, it doesn't represent anatomy, and it doesn't look like Batman--it doesn't serve any goal the costumers could have possibly had. It's just visual diarrhea.

Pretty much.

Perhaps it's designed as some sort of armored material, but is broken down to give Batman more freedom? While at the same time, it's broken down in a way to look remotely methodical.

Trust me, I'm not a fan of this suit -- the head is bloody stupid -- but instead of sitting here, saying "WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY", why don't we try to understand the thinking behind this thing?

I'm not so sure. I mean, it's free at the groins; it's free at the knee-caps; and I assume all of the other breaks are designed to create even more flexibility for the Batman. Sure, there are a few random pieces laying around, but I think that's solely to create as much flexibility as possible, all while maintaining a relatively "cool-looking" and "professional" appearance.
We've tried that line of thinking. There is no rational thinking behind that. The human leg does not need to move in those areas in order to have mobility.

Segmentation at random areas does not create mobility--segmentation at areas where there is stress or buckling creates mobility. That's not what they've done. Those criteria are met, yes, but then they've added a dozen other superfluous breaks that serve no purpose. After you've made the necessary segmentation, cutting a subway map into his leg isn't going to make it any more mobile than that.

And that's about the long and the short of it. If they went so far as to explain this as neccessary for mobility, then their logic is faulty, and the suit and Batman's visuals suffers for it.

It is what it is. An overdesigned techy suit that could have been much, much more appropriate for the character.

I will never understand why the neck has to look so "involved". He looks like he's wearing some kind of a dog collar now. Clearly whoever designed this element of the costume has no idea what ventilation is actually needed in wearing such things. You don't need neck ventilation, you need HEAD ventilation. For instance, the ears could have had some kind of subtle "ventilation" added to them. That would have increased the actors comfort and looked kind of "batlike".

The bat-emblem on the chest now looks like someone smashed it with a mallet, leading to that ugly "gap" between the pec armor.

The shoulders and arms are what they are. The pads are a bit too involved looking, with random lines and "raised" areas, but ok.

I will never understand why his pecs are multi-colored, lined, and "layered". The ab stuff is overdesigned, with all the little lines and so forth cut into it, but I can live with it.

The legs are simply AWFUL looking. And I really have yet to meet someone who says otherwise. Everyone seems to recognize that they serve no practical purpose, so why didn't a TEAM OF PROFESSIONAL COSTUME DESIGNERS? Now, they've obviously designed the legs so that you can see the mesh underneath, so that the entire suit has some of the "mesh appeal". But it looks awful. The mesh isn't a cool enough or visually interesting enough concept to RAPE THE BATSUIT.

Overall, the design simply distracts in every element. Each overdesigned element, and there are a lot of them, distracts from the main elements of the suit. And that, to me, is not a good design. As for the gray...I get that they went "Batman is gray and black, let's bring some of that into it", but the juxtaposition of the colors simply doesn't work well enough to warrant that approach.

 

[Mr. Superhero]

And that's about the long and the short of it. If they went so far as to explain this as neccessary for mobility, then their logic is faulty, and the suit and Batman's visuals suffers for it.

Like I said, the suit is broken down to match various mobilized places (thighs, knee-caps); there are simply a few random bits laying around, which could, perhaps, be orchestrated to make the suit a little bit more comfortable.

There's more chance of the suit actually tailoring itself with each movement Bale makes, so I ASSUME that has something to do with the "jigsaw" design.

 

[SheldonLevene]

Here is my simple take on the legs:

The torso is obviously plated to the hilt as well. Now, most soldiers etc. wear knee pads helmet, kevlar vest, boots, and combat trousers. This would look silly if Batman tried to wear a heavily armoured chest piece and no leg protection. The reason it is so plated is for mobility. NO your leg does not bend half way up your quad, but when other parts of your legs are moving those plates will slide up and most likely touch the upper plates, and conversely when Batman squats the plates will more than likely gap even further. Point being, none of us are getting paid to design costumes (that I am aware of) so we don't know what other stages the Dark Knight suit went through before it became what we have now. I am sure they tried many other ways and this is ultimately what ended up providing Bale and the stunt guys the most comfort. Imo if I get to see an agile Batman on screen that can jump, sprint, crouch comfortably, and turn his ****ing head I will have 0 problems with the suit. I think all of us are going to be so geeked on the 18th we're not even going to be paying attention the overdesign of the suit.

Thank you,

Shelly

 

[The Guard]

Like I said, the suit is broken down to match various mobilized places (thighs, knee-caps); there are simply a few random bits laying around, which could, perhaps, be orchestrated to make the suit a little bit more comfortable.

Some of those areas are mobile areas. The random puzzle piece look on the sides of his thighs? Not so much. The "plates sliding" thing, I understand, but that's clearly not what is happening when he crouches, moves, etc. Those things are affixed to the mesh, not loose plating.

I am sure they tried many other ways and this is ultimately what ended up providing Bale and the stunt guys the most comfort.

He's going to be uncomfortable regardless. He's got black rubber pieces on over what looks to be some kind of rubber mesh. Trust me, this suit will not be any more comfortable than the previous one. The mesh will not help, because it's also probably made out of some kind of rubber. He's likely going to be wearing some kind of undersuit beneath it as well.

The major issue in Batsuits that causes heat is the enclosed cowl, and he's still wearing that. Plus, he's now got additional rubber pieces over his neck, which will not help in terms of heat and sweating.

This suit was designed because it was designed. They will say it was done to make it more mobile and comfortable, but that is clearly not what they were after.

Based on what we saw in BEGINS, "more mobility" is simply not the best argument for this outfit. Because the man ran, crouched, leapt and a number of other things in BATMAN BEGINS.

 

[Sandouras]

Here is my simple take on the legs:

The torso is obviously plated to the hilt as well. Now, most soldiers etc. wear knee pads helmet, kevlar vest, boots, and combat trousers. This would look silly if Batman tried to wear a heavily armoured chest piece and no leg protection. The reason it is so plated is for mobility. NO your leg does not bend half way up your quad, but when other parts of your legs are moving those plates will slide up and most likely touch the upper plates, and conversely when Batman squats the plates will more than likely gap even further. Point being, none of us are getting paid to design costumes (that I am aware of) so we don't know what other stages the Dark Knight suit went through before it became what we have now. I am sure they tried many other ways and this is ultimately what ended up providing Bale and the stunt guys the most comfort. Imo if I get to see an agile Batman on screen that can jump, sprint, crouch comfortably, and turn his ****ing head I will have 0 problems with the suit. I think all of us are going to be so geeked on the 18th we're not even going to be paying attention the overdesign of the suit.

Thank you,

Shelly

Go to youtube and search for the Roker dark knight video. You can see bale walking with it. You ll see that the pads on the sides of the crotch area bulge worse than the begins armpits. Those pads snap in half when he walks! Its ridiculous! So his pants =/= mobility or comfort when they have this stupid design. If anything, the BB pants bulged a lot less around the crotch. IMAGINE THAT!
**** LINDA HEMMING.

 

[The Guard]

Yup. The pads themselves buckle. And as he says: "There certainly is a lot of sweating going on". There's just no way around it. There's no way around in a CLOTH suit, though those are a BIT more comfortable.

 

[SheldonLevene]

Go to youtube and search for the Roker dark knight video. You can see bale walking with it. You ll see that the pads on the sides of the crotch area bulge worse than the begins armpits. Those pads snap in half when he walks! Its ridiculous! So his pants =/= mobility or comfort when they have this stupid design. If anything, the BB pants bulged a lot less around the crotch. IMAGINE THAT!
**** LINDA HEMMING.

I've seen it, and I didn't say that the pads didn't move around, in fact just the opposite. But you and I have never worn these TDK pants or the BB pants. So I would still argue that those are probably far more comfortable and easy to move in than the slabs of rubber he wore on his legs for BB.

 

[Sandouras]

Yup. The pads themselves buckle.

And i repeat so that the universe will hear it:


**** LINDA HEMMING

 

[SheldonLevene]

Yup. The pads themselves buckle.

I understand what both of ya'll are saying, but the whole legs in BB buckled, and we were supposed to believe those pants were entirely armoured. Not just the plates we're seeing now.

 

[Sandouras]

I've seen it, and I didn't say that the pads didn't move around, in fact just the opposite. But you and I have never worn these TDK pants or the BB pants. So I would still argue that those are probably far more comfortable and easy to move in than the slabs of rubber he wore on his legs for BB.

Well i cant tell you about mobility, but i can tell you that they placed pad right on his thigh joint which consequently bends like he is having a side-bonner. Well they could have put a cut there, or no pad at all. I RAGE WITH ANGER!

 

[lujho]

If they didnt close the beak under the actor's nose, the cowl would come loose.

I don't think so - not with the separate helmet. There's nothing for the cowl to fight against. It's not pulling against the neck to it should just go with the head easily.

 

[The Guard]

Guys, he didn't wear "slabs of rubber" on his legs in BATMAN BEGINS. He wore a molded rubber suit that had some flexibility to it. It's akin to a wetsuit almost, and anyone who has constructed one of these will be able to tell you. It's not all that difficult to move in. It is the CAPE that makes moving around as Batman more of a challenge, and they've obviously made an attempt to solve that by making the cape behind him now.

And, yes, the suit in BATMAN BEGINS could bend, was flexible, etc. Which is why it was described as flexible, lightweight armor. That was half the point of it.

 

[Sandouras]

I understand what both of ya'll are saying, but the whole legs in BB buckled, and we were supposed to believe those pants were entirely armoured. Not just the plates we're seeing now.

In begins the suit has incorporated the armour pads into it so you cant really say where its armoured and where its not. But here the armour is obvious AND IT BENDS. And its not that i cannot suspend my disbelief, its that it looks bad and it makes for not positives whatsoever. So what were they ****ing thinking?

 

[The Guard]

I don't think so - not with the separate helmet. There's nothing for the cowl to fight against. It's not pulling against the neck to it should just go with the head easily.

That "closed off" beak very much anchors the helmet to the nose, and keeps it central to the actor's face. Even a hard plastic helmet will "slide" if there is nothing to keep it there.

 

[The Guard]

In begins the suit has incorporated the armour pads into it so you cant really say where its armoured and where its not.

The entire suit is described as body armor. So the whole thing, sans the boots, gloves, cowl and cape, seems to be armor.

 

[Mr. Superhero]

Some of those areas are mobile areas. The random puzzle piece look on the sides of his thighs? Not so much. The "plates sliding" thing, I understand, but that's clearly not what is happening when he crouches, moves, etc. Those things are affixed to the mesh, not loose plating.

Well, it's probably no coincidence that the plating is cut to aid Bale's groin, thigh and knee movement; so I think it's safe to say that the design is at least 50% logical. As for the random plates, I honestly think it's purposefully rendered to create a unique design of some sort; all while corresponding with the plates that aid Bale's movement.

Nolan simply tried to make something "uBer cool". Whether that worked or not is entirely subjective.

 

[Sandouras]

Guys, he didn't wear "slabs of rubber" on his legs in BATMAN BEGINS. He wore a molded rubber suit that had some flexibility to it. It's akin to a wetsuit almost, and anyone who has constructed one of these will be able to tell you. It's not all that difficult to move in. It is the CAPE that makes moving around as Batman more of a challenge, and they've obviously made an attempt to solve that by making the cape behind him now.

And, yes, the suit in BATMAN BEGINS could bend, was flexible, etc. Which is why it was described as flexible, lightweight armor. That was half the point of it.

Well bale said that it required a lot of effort to move his hands and his neck acked badly from trying to move his head in the cowl.

But i dont care how bale feels. I care about the result on camera. And other than the bulging armpits and the bending abs (they bended badly when he went to fetch the antidote in the cave), i didnt find anything wrong with the Begins suit. I even liked the small bulging that the neck made when he moved his head. It was kinda organic and natural.

 

[SheldonLevene]

Guys, he didn't wear "slabs of rubber" on his legs in BATMAN BEGINS. He wore a molded rubber suit that had some flexibility to it. It's akin to a wetsuit almost, and anyone who has constructed one of these will be able to tell you. It's not all that difficult to move in. It is the CAPE that makes moving around as Batman more of a challenge, and they've obviously made an attempt to solve that by making the cape behind him now.

And, yes, the suit in BATMAN BEGINS could bend, was flexible, etc. Which is why it was described as flexible, lightweight armor. That was half the point of it.

I'm pretty sure foam latex is not what typical wetsuits are made of. That suit in BB was at least a 1/4-1/2 inch thick in areas.