The Winter Soldier Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

[Spider-Vader]

If they barely had the Nazis in the first movie, then I doubt they'll show the Soviets as mustache-twirling villains in this movie.

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or the love interest thread, but either way, latest rumor:

She shook fans of Downton Abbey by eloping with an Irish chauffeur and now actress Jessica Brown Findlay is poised to take a new screen lover... superhero Captain America.

Jessica, 23, is the frontrunner to play the love interest in the next in the series of Marvel Comics films that have been international box office smashes.

She is available for the movie Captain America: The Winter Soldier after her Downton character, Lady Sybil Crawley, died in childbirth.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/354846/Can-Jessica-Brown-Findlay-woo-Captain-America-

 

[cherokeesam]

You ask why would the Soviets do that, when that question has already been addressed in the storyline the movie is going to be based upon.

In the comics, they took him back to Moscow because they thought he had the super-soldier serum. It turned out that he didn't, so they turned him into Winter Soldier for a myriad of reason.

In the movies, he has a version of the super-soldier serum, so the Soviets wouldn't be so eager to give him back.

How would the Soviets know he's got a version of the serum, if Bucky himself doesn't even know that? Again, it comes down to finding a wounded American soldier behind enemy lines --- how and why would Soviet troops decide to kidnap him, experiment on him, brainwash him? And even if/when they *did* find out he's got some kind of superpowers, why on earth would Stalin waste that on making him a programmed assassin, instead of turning him into a propaganda tool just like Captain America was? They'd try to flaunt him as "Captain Soviet" or something.

 

[TheVileOne]

Arnim Zola already experimented on him. We don't know what he did to Bucky.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

How would the Soviets know he's got a version of the serum, if Bucky himself doesn't even know that?

Because he survived falling from a great height without being crippled.

Again, it comes down to finding a wounded American soldier behind enemy lines --- how and why would Soviet troops decide to kidnap him, experiment on him, brainwash him?

They don't. Let's start with the Soviets found him. They recognize he is an American soldier, offer him medical treatment, and through observation/running some tests they find out he has a healing factor/whatever.

And even if/when they *did* find out he's got some kind of superpowers, why on earth would Stalin waste that on making him a programmed assassin, instead of turning him into a propaganda tool just like Captain America was? They'd try to flaunt him as "Captain Soviet" or something.

Well, the commentary suggests that what Bucky has is a healing factor. It is something they could have missed if Bucky was never injured during his time in the Howling Commandos. And it is something that doesn't lend itself to being a propaganda hero like, say, super-strength would.

Also, Bucky is an America national. They flaunt him as a propaganda symbol, the US Army would take notice.

Did you like the Winter Soldier storyline in the comics, cherokeesam?

 

[Xeno]

Because he survived falling from a great height without being crippled.


They don't. Let's start with the Soviets found him. They recognize he is an American soldier, offer him medical treatment, and through observation/running some tests they find out he has a healing factor/whatever.



Well, the commentary suggests that what Bucky has is a healing factor. It is something they could have missed if Bucky was never injured during his time in the Howling Commandos. And it is something that doesn't lend itself to being a propaganda hero like, say, super-strength would.

Also, Bucky is an America national. They flaunt him as a propaganda symbol, the US Army would take notice.

Did you like the Winter Soldier storyline in the comics, cherokeesam?

During the Cold War, the Soviets would have been all too happy to use a US soldier as a propaganda tool. They were constantly on the lookout for opportunities to tout the advantages of life under Communism to the West. Had they gotten their hands on a Captain America knockoff and managed to turn him as completely as Barnes was in the comics, they would never have ceased using him as a propaganda tool, just as the US had with Rogers himself.


So let's say that the Red Army had captured Bucky Barnes at the tail end of WWII. And let's further posit that, instead of treating him like an injured member of one of their allies' armed forces, they instead took him prisoner and brainwashed him. (We'll conveniently overlook the fact that the US and the USSR fought on the same side in WWII and that it was not until after the war that they started their decades-long standoff.)


The Soviets would have wasted little time in trotting Barnes out before the world's press to spout praises of his new-found homeland. And it would have been all the better for them if they could tell the world that Comrade Barnes was in fact a Super Soldier just like the popular Captain America, the late Steven Rogers. That would have been a propaganda coup of such immense proportions that Stalin would never have been able to resist it.


As cherokeesam said, Barnes would have been far more useful as a propaganda tool than as a mere assassin. Any trained zombie can kill, but very few could have done so much to make a propaganda statement as Barnes.

 

[Carlo Comicus]

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or the love interest thread, but either way, latest rumor:

She shook fans of Downton Abbey by eloping with an Irish chauffeur and now actress Jessica Brown Findlay is poised to take a new screen lover... superhero Captain America.

Jessica, 23, is the frontrunner to play the love interest in the next in the series of Marvel Comics films that have been international box office smashes.

She is available for the movie Captain America: The Winter Soldier after her Downton character, Lady Sybil Crawley, died in childbirth.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/354846/Can-Jessica-Brown-Findlay-woo-Captain-America-

This is not a news. It's a speculation.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

(We'll conveniently overlook the fact that the US and the USSR fought on the same side in WWII and that it was not until after the war that they started their decades-long standoff.)

The US wasn't so hot on communism even before the war. Actually, the USSR started out being friends with Hitler, and the USSR only became "friends" with the US because Hitler turned on them. The enemy of my enemy and so on.

As cherokeesam said, Barnes would have been far more useful as a propaganda tool than as a mere assassin. Any trained zombie can kill, but very few could have done so much to make a propaganda statement as Barnes.

Sure, and Tony Stark can do more good if he started producing armors for SHIELD, or at least the Avengers.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Why would they reintroduce Hydra? Because irrespective of Winter Soldier, Hydra is a major part of the Marvel Universe. Having Hydra continue to exist post-WWII would be incredibly useful, so there is no good reason to avoid doing so. Particularly with the TV show coming up: Hydra is *the* SHIELD nemesis.

Right. So why not reintroduce them in the first episodes of SHIELD?

If all goes to plan, SHIELD will have around 600 produced minutes a year. The Cap film franchise have an average of 40.

Cap2 wil already be introducing a new superhero and reusing at least one (possibly) two Avengers characters without their own movies.

I'd say Cap is doing enough for the larger film film universe.

 

[jaqua99]

This is not a news. It's a speculation.

either way, this thread is called the news and speculation thread.

and if you read his entire post, he adressed it as a rumor

 

[CaptainCanada]

(We'll conveniently overlook the fact that the US and the USSR fought on the same side in WWII and that it was not until after the war that they started their decades-long standoff.)

The Soviets were already preparing for the postwar faceoff with the USA (and vice versa). Surely that's not news to you? Igor Gouzenko ring a bell?

In the movies, it makes much more sense for it to be HYDRA, in terms of the location of the accident, that they've already incorporated HYDRA/Zola experiments into Winter Soldier's origin, and, judging from the first movie, they're not anxious to make extensive use of actual foreign countries as villains.

 

[VAMP]

I was looking on wikipedia and they show Falcon in this movie but not Hawkeye?

Is that only because his actor is taking a break from acting?

 

[Son of Coul]

Because Falcon is confirmed for the movie, while Hawkeye isn't.

 

[VAMP]

Because Falcon is confirmed for the movie, while Hawkeye isn't.

Yeah.....which is why I'm asking the reason for that.

 

[cherokeesam]

Because he survived falling from a great height without being crippled.

True; but unless the Sovs were actually present at that battle (the movie certainly doesn't indicate that), then they didn't see him fall --- they just know he's a badly injured US soldier in HYDRA territory.

They don't. Let's start with the Soviets found him. They recognize he is an American soldier, offer him medical treatment, and through observation/running some tests they find out he has a healing factor/whatever.



Well, the commentary suggests that what Bucky has is a healing factor. It is something they could have missed if Bucky was never injured during his time in the Howling Commandos. And it is something that doesn't lend itself to being a propaganda hero like, say, super-strength would.

Also, Bucky is an America national. They flaunt him as a propaganda symbol, the US Army would take notice.

Eh, maybe on all that. I like the idea mentioned a few pages back that somebody from HYDRA is the one who finds Bucky, but said person defects to the USSR as Hitler's regime collapses and takes his "toy" with him. Said person might have a name like "Baron Zemo" or "Heinrich von Strucker"; or better yet, "Dr. Faustus" or "Aleksandr Lukin."

Did you like the Winter Soldier storyline in the comics, cherokeesam?

Hell, no. I was one of the ones who found it totally cringeworthy when it first came out, and spent a good amount of time spewing Brubaker hate mail on a lot of forums. But after Cap's death, WS started to grow on me --- god help me, I actually liked the character and found the storylines about him investigating Cap's murder and carrying on his legacy to be pretty moving at times.

I'm not sure how well that will translate in CATWS, though....since we don't have a CW or Death of Captain America anywhere in the forseeable future for the MCU yet, the movie will likely focus on the basic framework of Cap discovering that WS is Bucky and trying to "fix" him.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

True; but unless the Sovs were actually present at that battle (the movie certainly doesn't indicate that), then they didn't see him fall --- they just know he's a badly injured US soldier in HYDRA territory.

The movie could reveal that they were there. I don't think Marvel would have the presence of mind to place Soviets in the area as early as the first movie.

Remember, nothing in Iron Man indicates Howard Stark created the arc-reactor, and it is implied that Tony did so. Only in the sequel do we get the full picture.

Eh, maybe on all that. I like the idea mentioned a few pages back that somebody from HYDRA is the one who finds Bucky, but said person defects to the USSR as Hitler's regime collapses and takes his "toy" with him. Said person might have a name like "Baron Zemo" or "Heinrich von Strucker"; or better yet, "Dr. Faustus" or "Aleksandr Lukin."

I could live with that.

I could even live with several HYDRA scientists joining the USSR and forming the "Red Room".

Hell, no. I was one of the ones who found it totally cringeworthy when it first came out, and spent a good amount of time spewing Brubaker hate mail on a lot of forums. But after Cap's death, WS started to grow on me --- god help me, I actually liked the character and found the storylines about him investigating Cap's murder and carrying on his legacy to be pretty moving at times.

I'm not sure how well that will translate in CATWS, though....since we don't have a CW or Death of Captain America anywhere in the forseeable future for the MCU yet, the movie will likely focus on the basic framework of Cap discovering that WS is Bucky and trying to "fix" him.

I see the movie skipping the entire death of Cap/Bucky as Cap storyline and just going straight into what is currently being done in the comics; Bucky, now sane again, working off the grid to right the wrongs he did as Winter Soldier.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Yeah.....which is why I'm asking the reason for that.

Maybe Hawkeye isn't involved at all.

As he frankly shouldn't be.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Frank Grillo is Crossbones, confirmed!

Yeah.....which is why I'm asking the reason for that.

That IS the reason. He's just not confirmed to be in the film yet. That's all there is to it.

 

[Chewy]

Yup, confirmed

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118061391?refCatId=13

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Is anyone else starting to worry this is getting a little crowded?

 

[Chewy]

Not really. Most of these characters seem like supporting players.

(Also that Variety article says Smulders will be in the film)

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Not any more crowded than Iron Man 3 or Thor 2, or even the first Captain America.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Is anyone else starting to worry this is getting a little crowded?

Nah. Captain America, Winter Soldier, Sharon, Falcon, Nick Fury, Black Widow, Crossbones, and who we assume is Zemo. The original had Captain America, Bucky, Peggy, Red Skull, Zola, Philips, Stark, Erskine, and the Howling Commandos. Plus, Winter Soldier only has about 4 completely new characters to establish.

 

[Quasimod0]

Awesome news about crossbones

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Nah. Captain America, Winter Soldier, Sharon, Falcon, Nick Fury, Black Widow, Crossbones, and who we assume is Zemo. The original had Captain America, Bucky, Peggy, Red Skull, Zola, Philips, Stark, Erskine, and the Howling Commandos. Plus, Winter Soldier only has about 4 completely new characters to establish.

Exactly, here's how I see it:
Captain America - Captain America
Bucky - Winter Soldier
Red Skull - Zemo
Zola - Crossbones
Peggy - Sharon
Phillips - Nick Fury
Howling Commandos - SHIELD agents (Widow/Falcon/Hill/Hawkeye/etc.)
Erskine - ???
Stark - ???

TWS essentially has two less roles than the first one