Discussion in 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' started by Thread Manager, Oct 3, 2012.
IIt can go so wrong.
It's a lot to juggle just for his second movie. Have to set up Cap adjusting to the modern era, introduction of Falcon, Winter Soldier/Bucky, Cap's love interest, and plus whatever they have planned with SHIELD and Nick Fury and setting up the next Avengers flick.
2+ hours is enough time for all of that.
And they need to tie up Steve's loose ends with Peggy.
And Natasha is going to have a large role, because of star power and that Johansson doesn't come cheap. So they're going to feature her prominently, and at the same time, they shouldn't allow her to overshadow Sam, and particularly, Sharon.
And most of all, they need to reconcile the two storylines of the movie. The Winter Soldier is a bleak one, Steve finds out that his best friend has been warped so horribly, while the relationship with Sam is more uplifting.
And they need to do all that in 120 minutes.
And don't forget the villains
villains? no time for villains with all that stuff happening!
Which means that, obviously, some of those subplots will get short shrift or axed altogether. With Atwell seemingly confirming that she hasn't been asked back, I think the Peggy subplot will be nonexistent, other than maybe a tearful visit by Steve to her tombstone.
I think anything to deal with Peggy is done and dusted. They'll probably be a short sentence about how he's moving on and what not but anyone hoping for more than that is more than likely not going to get it.
Unless Steve's closure with Peggy is part of the Sharon storyline, so he discusses her throughout his interactions with Sharon. That would kill two birds with one stone, which would be the way to do it rather than having two separate things.
I am very worried about this film for all the reasons listed above. It feels like there's not enough time to properly tell half the threads they're spinning here. Something is going to have to give, whether it's character/relationship development or overall plot. IMO the Winter Solider plot should have been set up in this film but saved for the third movie, that way Steve could have had time to develop to the new world, build new relationships and work with SHIELD before throwing the Bucky curveball at him.
As much as I love Natasha, I really hope they don't just do "star power = screen time" and that they give her a much smaller role. She's really not necessary to this plot, and the new characters shouldn't be short shifted just because the actors aren't as bankable.
While the fate of the world will be a point, the main focus will be Steve dealing with being out of his time and his former friend becoming his worst enemy because he feels guilt about his "death."
I think that is irrelevant. If they are doing a Steve and Peggy reunion, chances are they were going to go with an older actress rather than hire Atwell and go through the trouble of makeup.
I really hope it's not one of those "guilt" angles. I'd much rather see Steve just dealing with the fact that his friend has been brainwashed into Winter Soldier than anything where Bucky blames Steve for it happening to him in the first place.
I highly doubt that.
Maybe he can find ways to blame himself for Bucky falling, but it's not like he knew somebody would recover him and turn him into an assassin. Steve just thought he was dead.
From Toby Jones regarding Arnim Zola
And from Hayley regarding Peggy
Wouldn't have worked. Bucky was such a non-character in the first movie that if they waited until the third movie to bring up the Winter Solider for the third movie almost everybody in the general audience would've all but forgotten about him.
Plus, if you save all the cool stuff for some point in the future you have nothing to fill the present.
Winter Soldier isn't the only worthwhile Captain America storyline, you know. There was a period of about forty years between Cap getting thawed and the Winter Soldier storyline, pretty sure there was one or two characters or storylines you could make a non-Winter Soldier movie with.
OMG Cap has adjusted to the modern times, get over it. With the recent alien attack the whole world needs to adjust to new times. Atleast Cap already dealt with the 'supernatural/alien' Tesseract during WW2.
If they dwell on him adjusting the movie has already failed.
I agree, but with the way they handled Bucky in the first movie Winter Soldier kinda feels like a do it now or never type thing. It wouldn't resonate as much (if it does at all) if they waited until 20?? when Cap 3 comes out.
I'd say that could definitely have something to do with infinity formula, and furthermore part of BlackWidow being explored. Some big things we don't know about that went on between WWII and Avengers.
I've hinted at him trying to invent the infinity formula before in my posts but It'll be hard to find.
If they're going this way, BW is most certainly tied to it but it's fairly obvious at first glance and if you know the comics. One idea may be that he sort of botched it a few times... created inferior forms of it. Fury doesn't have the same formula Widow will receive... As in she doesn't have it yet, and in one idea neither does Zola. He's a cyborg at this stage... Able to live a little longer but still with biological parts... he still has yet to either find a way to live forever that works better than what Fury secretly has; or he needs to transfer his consciousness into the robot body within this movie. That's one avenue his experiments may take him and why I've been bringing up Simon Williams... A man Zemo/Zola save from prison and turn into Wonderman while figuring out certain secrets to the formula and how to transfer consciousness into a robotic body permanently..
I was talking about how Zola might need his robot body to survive all this time and was one of the people unfreezing Winter Soldier and activating him again. He needed to stay unfrozen so that he could give orders to others. But if he had continued to age, he might end up dying.
The actors who play them would age over time. So because Zola may most definitely be back in action and not just flashbacks, he needs either the robot body or some way to stay in action (possibly a combination of both and maybe even freezing and waking more frequently than Winter Soldier).
If he was a non-character, as you say, then they have the same problem if they do it after 3 years than if they did it after six.
Besides, they could have kept Bucky relevant by referencing him in Cap 2, without making him the main villain.
Been join through all of the concept artists websites that are listed on imdb's page regarding Thor: TDW and came across this storyboard/doodle.
Tom Nelson isn't listed on the cast and crew page of Cap 2 but a couple of the other concept artists from thor 2 are listed on cap 2. Anyway, probably nothin. Still on the hunt regardless. t:
Here is his site: