Discussion in 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' started by Thread Manager, Oct 24, 2013.
I notice that Cap is not a pencil artist in this continuity. too bad.
I wish they had made Rockwell's Justin Hammer to be Stark's equal in terms of intelligence, instead of a punchline. That was one of the things I dislike about IM2, and one that did a disservice to the film as a whole.
I'm really looking forward to this one! I thought the first one was pretty good, I really liked the WW2 setting. I'm hoping they can do it justice in modern day.
I got a totally different impression. That was not Hammer's personality at all (well, except the loser unable to get anything right aspect). He ACTED laid back in an attempt to impersonate Stark's play boy personality. I think we see a much more real Hammer in those moments: someone who thinks he's owed something and who sees Stark as in his way. Kinda like a kid who is part of the in crowd but desperate to be top dog. They play the part to fit in, but just underneath the surface sits a lot of resentment and they would back stab and claw their way back to the top.
I would describe quite a few of my friends as being laid-back and fun loving. It's hard to imagine any of them willing to break an attempted murderer out of jail so that they could embarrass a peer on the national stage. If anything, that comes off as more obsessive and competitive. Mimicking Stark is an extension of that. For me, personally, that is what made Rockwell so fun to watch in the role. It's like an extended and purposefully terrible RDJ impersonation that Hammer is trying so hard to get to work for him when that is just not who he is at all.
I would be fun to see Hammer in the Titanium Man Armor & Dance like that! t:
I agree with all that, and I loved Rockwell and his performance in IM2. I'm just saying that the public perception of Hammer is that he's like a very rich Michael Scott or David Brent from The Office. I just don't see AIM or the Extremis soldiers welcoming someone like that into their ranks, let alone embracing him as a boss.
In TFA he made a very nice sketch while he was doing his USO tour that peggy noticed.
Steve was also sketching in the Avengers deleted scene, wasnt he? Stark Tower?
Always thought one of the biggest masterstrokes made in the comics was to make Steve a freelance commercial artist; Byrne even had him able to carry his shield around in his A2 art portfolio.
I'd imagine that they'd take him seriously after a brutal show of power/statement of intent that establishes that he isnt the Hammer of before. That his experiences in prison have made him into a man not to be trifled with. A man hellbent on seeking revenge. Rockwell would hit something like that out of the park.
I don't think the movie version of Hammer would work as a grand, world conquering supervillain. . . but I think he *could* work as a more mid tier villain. Basically have him shift into something like his comic book version, as a patron and supplier for various lower level villains. Having learned his lesson, he avoids genius hardcases like Vanko in the future, and sticks to dealing with either vulnerable scientists he can coopt or rob, and criminals he can control because they are dependent on him for their edge.
He still comes off as a bit of a joke, but the trick is that he comes off that way even when he's ordering someone murdered or such.
Terrence Stamp as Justin Hammer senior
You could also say that Hammer has been hardened in prison and is now a lot more ruthless and brutal. Rockwell's a good enough actor to pull that off.
Haha nice. To Tony: "My name is Justin Hammer Sr. You sent my dumb-ass son to prison. Prepare to die."
I could see that!
yeah, but the character he played seemed more like the type to soften in prison; like permanently loose down there.
Given the kind of friends he had, I could maybe see him finagling his way out of prison entirely, if he can push enough blame off onto Vanko, throw enough chaff into the air, and call in enough favors. His reputation would still be mud, though, and I doubt he'd be getting many juicy contracts. Of course, that would be a good enough reason for him to go into blackmarket technology supply.
To me, at least, Justin Hammer came off as competent, but not as competent as he thought he was, or thought he deserved to be. His casual, joking demeanor when dealing with Vanko was how he *thought* the All Powerful Business Titan should behave when trying to intimidate the peasants. . . Hammer just doesn't have the charisma to pull it off.
Clearly Hammer's not a complete idiot since he was a successful businessman in his own right. However, he wanted to be Tony Stark, but he doesn't have the genius (or at least not nearly as much), charisma, or charm of Tony Stark.
Justin Hammer is the mirror-reverse Tony Stark. Both of them were born wealthy and inherited companies from their fathers, but where Tony also inherited Howard Stark's genius, charm and business acumen, Hammer possesses none of those skills. Tony has more in common with Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, tech titans who built their companies up by designing innovative products and, in Tony's case, vastly improving upon what he inherited. From what we've seen of Hammer's products, he is far from the genius that Stark is, and he knows it.
Hammer, lacking Tony's intellect, is forced to hire others to do what he cannot. That isn't a failing in and of itself, but from the low quality of the products Hammer Industries puts out it's clear that he hasn't chosen his scientists and designers well. He is also unscrupulous and not above trying to steal Stark's designs to get ahead, though even that ended in disaster for him due to his lack of skilled technicians. Recruiting Vanko was just another in a series of shady deals and missteps for Hammer. This is a man destined to forever exist in Tony Stark's shadow, desperately trying to fake the brilliance and charm that his rival so effortlessly exudes. He doesn't have it in him to become a major villain, though he can inadvertently assist smarter and more dangerous criminals as he did with Vanko.
I .. understood that reference
Hammer's character in IM2 irritated me no end, and not in a good way. I suppose with enough effort, good writing and some screen time they could turn it around and justify his newfound badassedness... But I think and would prefer they just get a new decent top level villian and be done with it.
I loved him just because Sam Rockwell is a really entertaining actor and he was clearly having fun.
I like what Rockwell did with Hammer tbh
You know, I know I am getting way off topic, but isn't it a weird 6 degrees of separation that Sam Rockwell played a character in the 1990 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where he had several scenes with Casey Jones, and later on, Chris Evans would be talking for the CGI version in the TMNT movie, and now both are in the MCU.