The Winter Soldier Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - Part 15

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]473709[/split]

 

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]473071[/split]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I like the idea of using Batroc as an opening villain before the story really starts. The way they're using Batroc is basically how they're going to use Strucker in AOU I'm guessing.


Well without credits it probably is 2hr 8min.

No sites list without credits.

 

[seahammer]

Just grabbed this from the last thread to say that this is pretty much a perfect assessment of T:TDW. And I say that is a lover of the movie and the character, but one who can step back and see the flaws while still loving it.

Well said on all of this, Chewy.

Originally Posted by Chewy

Spoiler

People can talk all they want about editing or whatever else for Thor 2, but the problems all trickle down from a weaksauce script. Everything to do with the dark elves is very very stupid, keeping one or two of the deleted scenes that people liked doesn't fix that. If anything it slows the movie down, which gives people time to think about how ridiculous the elf stuff is. It's no wonder Marvel wanted the movie to just breeze by

What Thor 3 needs isn't a longer runtime or less humor or Thor moving differently or whatever other little complaint people want addressed. What it needs is a filmmaker with a vision for the film, who oversees the production from the word go. (Or filmmakers, as the case may be. ) Thor 2's problem wasn't its runtime, it was the four directors and half-dozen screenwriters who passed through before they finally settled.

If the right person makes an 80 minute film it'll be great. If the wrong person makes a 130 minute film it'll be terrible. Runtime is indicative of basically nothing.

And for what it's worth I'm not one of those people who hates Thor 2, it's an okay film. But it definitely has its problems

Can't wait to pick up the Bluray tonight and hear what they have to say in the director's commentary about some of the issues, if they address them.

And to get on topic: T:TDW dvd has a cap preview, right? Also, i hope the runtime is true, that'll be great.

 

[Silvermoon]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who loves TDW
Anyway,great running time.

You're not the only one I loved it as well. For me, in terms of the MCU, it's currently my second favorite behind only Avengers.

edit (and back on topic): a 136 min. runtime for Cap sounds fine to me

 

[TeeKay]

I liked TDW but hated Malekith. He was such a wasted villain imo. Other than that, the film was pretty entertaining. Let's hope Marvel is hands off with Thor 3 which is rumoured to be Ragnok.t:

 

[Chewy]

Hands on/hands off isn't really the problem. You only ever hear about them being "hands on" when there are already problems with the production. That's not a coincidence, they're trying to salvage what they can. As far as the recent movies, guys like Whedon, Black, the Russos, and Gunn have gone on and on about how much freedom Marvel gave them to make their movies.

 

[Crimson King]

Just grabbed this from the last thread to say that this is pretty much a perfect assessment of T:TDW. And I say that is a lover of the movie and the character, but one who can step back and see the flaws while still loving it.

Well said on all of this, Chewy.

Yep! Chewy won the last thread. I knew this topic would come up once we got the Cap runtime in. TDW's problem was the writing coupled with a director who was more of a hired gun than a champion of the character. Runtime had nothing to do with it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yep! Chewy won the last thread. I knew this topic would come up once we got the Cap runtime in. TDW's problem was the writing coupled with a director who was more of a hired gun than a champion of the character. Runtime had nothing to do with it.

The run time didnt help though, the amount of important things the movie just skipped over was bordering on criminal.

 

[Huddsy]

Yep! Chewy won the last thread. I knew this topic would come up once we got the Cap runtime in. TDW's problem was the writing coupled with a director who was more of a hired gun than a champion of the character. Runtime had nothing to do with it.

If they could have had Branagh and Taylor have a baby and that baby directed it... boom. They wanted a better visual flair, but Taylor had an entertaining but uninspiring story to work with, and he's never been much of a 'take control and be hands on with the script' kind of guy either.... so....

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hands on/hands off isn't really the problem. You only ever hear about them being "hands on" when there are already problems with the production. That's not a coincidence, they're trying to salvage what they can. As far as the recent movies, guys like Whedon, Black, the Russos, and Gunn have gone on and on about how much freedom Marvel gave them to make their movies.

They caused the problems with both IM2 and TDW. I don't think there is much dispute about that. They wanted to make these films even when they were clearly half-baked.

 

[Huddsy]

They caused the problems with both IM2 and TDW. I don't think there is much dispute about that. They wanted to make these films even when they were clearly half-baked.

Part of the problem that comes with a big cinematic universe and planning out an overall "this is where movie a and b will go" sort of thing. The movies were announced and if they changed things and moved them back, it'd effect the other movies too, so they just have to roll with it and accept that some will be average popcorn flicks and some will be fantastic.

 

[Chewy]

They caused the problems with both IM2 and TDW. I don't think there is much dispute about that. They wanted to make these films even when they were clearly half-baked.

I'm not disputing that, but that's not the same thing as a "hands on" studio issue. It's not like they're suffocating each of their filmmakers.

IM2 was rushed because they were at a point where they needed product, and with Thor 2 Marvel didn't end up finding the right guy to make the movie but pushed it through anyway. Both situations led to half-baked scripts and flawed movies. Clearly Marvel made mistakes. But it's not an issue of hands on/hands off.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

They caused the problems with both IM2 and TDW. I don't think there is much dispute about that. They wanted to make these films even when they were clearly half-baked.

Yep, and both turned out all the poorer for it.

 

[Chewy]

The run time didnt help though, the amount of important things the movie just skipped over was bordering on criminal.

Not really, if your movie isn't working, fluffing it out around the edges doesn't help. I'd rather take a breezy misfire than a slog like IM2

 

[TeeKay]

TDW is miles better than IM2 though imo. IM2 borderline sucked.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm not disputing that, but that's not the same thing as a "hands on" studio issue. It's not like they're suffocating each of their filmmakers.

IM2 was rushed because they were at a point where they needed product, and with Thor 2 Marvel didn't end up finding the right guy to make the movie but pushed it through anyway. Both situations led to half-baked scripts and flawed movies. Clearly Marvel made mistakes. But it's not an issue of hands on/hands off.

That Taylor had disputes over what was and wasn't cut, the comedy and composer, I'd say they were hands on. That is the very definition of hands-on.

With TDW it isn't that they didn't find the right guy to direct. It is that we will never know, because Marvel wouldn't stop touching. The script situation is the biggest red flag you can have. It was the "Marvel" vision, not Taylor's.

Now I am not saying they don't have the right to do that, and in some cases such things help a production. But that isn't hands off.

 

[Chewy]

TDW is miles better than IM2 though imo. IM2 borderline sucked.

Yep. I wouldn't say borderline, though

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Not really, if your movie isn't working, fluffing it out around the edges doesn't help. I'd rather take a breezy misfire than a slog like IM2

Emotional and dramatic scenes in the movie had no weight to them though because they would be followed by jokes 30 seconds later, THOSE scenes needed to breath IMO and the movie would have had more impact.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

TDW is depressing. Watching such potential die on the screen hurts my soul. All the plot threads, and the character development praying to be played with.

So while it is a better film then IM2, it also is far more infuriating failure to me.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That Taylor had disputes over what was and wasn't cut, the comedy and composer, I'd say they were hands on. That is the very definition of hands-on.

With TDW it isn't that they didn't find the right guy to direct. It is that we will never know, because Marvel wouldn't stop touching. The script situation is the biggest red flag you can have. It was the "Marvel" vision, not Taylor's.

Now I am not saying they don't have the right to do that, and in some cases such things help a production. But that isn't hands off.

I have said it before and I will say it again, why even hire the GoT guy if you arent going to let him do his thing?

Just doesnt make sense to me, and the movie was the poorer for it.

 

[TeeKay]

Emotional and dramatic scenes in the movie had no weight to them though because they would be followed by jokes 30 seconds later, THOSE scenes needed to breath IMO and the movie would have had more impact.

That's an exaggeration.

Yep. I wouldn't say borderline, though

I hated IM2 a lot. It's the only MCU film I don't like at all. I don't even own it on blu ray.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That's an exaggeration.

Not really, there was very little reaction time to Loki's death in particular.

 

[Chewy]

That Taylor had disputes over what was and wasn't cut, the comedy and composer, I'd say they were hands on. That is the very definition of hands-on.

Hands on/hands off isn't really the problem. You only ever hear about them being "hands on" when there are already problems with the production. That's not a coincidence, they're trying to salvage what they can. As far as the recent movies, guys like Whedon, Black, the Russos, and Gunn have gone on and on about how much freedom Marvel gave them to make their movies.

I didn't say that they're never hands on. Please read what I'm posting. They're hands on when things aren't working. When things are going smoothly they let the filmmakers do their thing.

None of the dark elf stuff in Thor 2 works, so I'm not surprised that Marvel pushed Taylor to add more comedy. And brought in new editors, and added that Loki ending at the last minute

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I really don't want to talk about this here. But lets just say the first Thor film had plenty of comedy, but it also understood when to take itself seriously. Imagine the Thor/Loki confrontation, arguably the best scene in the MCU, with a more... humorous tone.

Movies like Iron Man, TFA, Thor and the Avengers for the most part understand the mood. When to crack a joke, when to play up the action, when to acknowledge the drama.

That is what I want from TWS.