The Winter Soldier Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 2

[Xeno]

Captain America is not really politically risky since they haven't had him really swayed one way or another. Marvel probably realizes they can't risk alienating one view because people of all political persuasions are potential moviegoers and there's no need to cut that potential BO in half. That's the problem a lot of movies have since they have the director, stars, and/or the studio pushing it to one side of the political spectrum and cutting off more money from the other side. Will there be some people who won't see it because of Redford's history and beliefs? Of course there will, but there will still be plenty who'll see it as long it's not pushing one political view over another or because they're big CA/comic book movie fans.

Too much shouldn't be made of this. If someone like me can still love Arnie, Charlton Heston and John freaking Wayne, all of whom I disagree vehemently with politically, then Redford being in CA should be no problem. The few people who would have a problem with him are probably too busy watching Fox News to go to the movies, anyway.


The entire non-issue reminds me of people spreading doom and gloom about CA: TFA's prospects overseas because they were convinced that foreign dislike of America's policies would cause the film to be unpopular. Not only were the doomsayers wrong, but the film grossed more OS than it did in North America. The takeaway from that is that if the film is good people will go see it, regardless of outside issues.

 

[peterparker0077]

And why *would* he come out of retirement for this? It does speak well of the script and the cast and crew if it attracted the attention of such a hallowed Olympian coming down from on high to mingle with mere mortals. I suspect that politics has a lot to do with it, since Redford is a noted political activist. If this self-described "political thriller" demonizes conservative politics in America, there's a damn good chance that's what Redford is interested in.

I sure hope not. That would absolutely ruin the movie and the character all together.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

The entire non-issue reminds me of people spreading doom and gloom about CA: TFA's prospects overseas because they were convinced that foreign dislike of America's policies would cause the film to be unpopular. Not only were the doomsayers wrong, but the film grossed more OS than it did in North America. The takeaway from that is that if the film is good people will go see it, regardless of outside issues.

A Captain America movie will * never* work. That's what they were saying back around 2007-2008 or so, even earlier. If you care to dig back far enough you'll find quotes just like that. Foreign audiences will riot at a movie with America in the title omg!

Happens with every movie, to various degrees. That's why statements like casting Redford is an "AWFUL idea" and "it WILL hurt box office trust me" are so stupid.

 

[Superhero 101]

Wow Robert Redford in cap 2 is really mind blowing the anticipation for this movie just went up to a whole new level

 

[Xeno]

A Captain America movie will * never* work. That's what they were saying back around 2007-2008 or so, even earlier. If you care to dig back far enough you'll find quotes just like that. Foreign audiences will riot at a movie with America in the title omg!

Happens with every movie, to various degrees. That's why statements like casting Redford is an "AWFUL idea" and "it WILL hurt box office trust me" are so stupid.

You're right about this happening with every movie. And with virtually all of them, once the film arrives the moaning about whatever issue was going to "ruin" it evaporates. If Redford's politics becomes an issue at all, which I doubt, it'll end the same way.

Ant-Man is a prime example. Ever since the film was announced, there have been countless posts deriding the character, his powers and his potential at the box office. As soon as that 50-odd second clip of test footage hit the Internet, a lot of the naysayers were won over. Most manufactured problems resolve like that.

 

[cherokeesam]

Actor's politics don't mean squat to audiences. If it looks like a good movie, they'll go see it, even if they strongly disagree with the actor's views, right or left.

What I'm most interested to see now is how much more talent is going to be attracted to this project now that they see RR is aboard. I wouldn't be surprised to see some very big names asking Marvel and the Russos to pencil in even a cameo or walk-on for a chance to share a scene with Redford.

 

[TheVileOne]

Hope they can deal with having all these characters. A longer movie would be nice .

 

[Hawkingbird]

I think it should be quite a dark, in depth film.

 

[scifiwolf]

I can't for the life of me stand people too far outside the middle in either direction (narrow minds annoy me), and the left gets on my nerves more than anyone. I think it's just that they're more visible. But I never, not for one second, even considered Redford's political leanings. Actually, I never think about them. He's just a good actor. That's how people see him. I find it very asinine to think that box office will bow to a very select few who give a damn enough to not go to the movie because of politics.

 

[Dark Raven]

Actor's politics don't mean squat to audiences. If it looks like a good movie, they'll go see it, even if they strongly disagree with the actor's views, right or left.

What I'm most interested to see now is how much more talent is going to be attracted to this project now that they see RR is aboard. I wouldn't be surprised to see some very big names asking Marvel and the Russos to pencil in even a cameo or walk-on for a chance to share a scene with Redford.

Would be cool if Redford attracted Hugo Weaving to return as Red Skull, just because he'd like to be in the same movie as him. Would also be great if Redford could attract a big name for Baron Zemo or Strucker. We need one of those two instead of Armin Zola to be pulling the strings.

I just want to know when RR is going to be official. At the moment he's just "in talks". As we all know, Jason Momoa was "in talks" for the role of Drax in Guardians of the Galaxy, and look how that turned out.

 

[chamber-music]

I think they will probably save Red Skulls return for a the third movie. If the Russos managed to make something really special and diffferent to the first Cap film that could be enough to bring Weaving back on board.

 

[peterparker0077]

In terms of politics, this could turn to be a great film for this country in general. ... I had a long elaborate post written up, but I think it's best to leave it at this:

Some politician: "Captain, are you a Democrat or a Republican?"

Cap: "I'm not Democrat, or a Republican"

stands up, classic Evans stair down

Cap: "I'm an American."



I also hope he gives some form of his epic speech.

 

[Dark Raven]

Even if Redford holds some political views in this film, Cap would likely clash with him on that. So it won't be Redford's political views that are promoted or dominate. They might be there just to offer a point of view and the opportunity for conflict. Cap will be the main character and what he believes is what goes in this movie.

 

[samsnee]

Because anyone that pays attention to politics labels Redford as a severe left wing nutball. This isn't 20 years ago, Redford's name carries huge baggage now.

This is an AWFUL idea any way you cut it. A Captain America film of all things should not cast politically charged actors of this degree. Severe left wing or severe right wing, Cap and Marvel should avoid it at all cost. If this casting does happen , it WILL hurt box office to some degree, trust me.

I'm inventing a new Godwins Law. Anytime a post has the words "trust me" in it, then the likelihood that you should trust it goes to 0.

 

[metaphysician]

Now that Fury has evidence that the WSC committed a war crime on US soil, I would hope that he has some leverage there.

Okay, this is tangential, but. . . what?

No, they did not commit a war crime. They ordered a nuclear strike, under circumstances where it would be entirely reasonable to launch a nuclear strike, and with ( implicitly ) proper authority allowing them to do so.

What about their actions would even slightly constitute a war crime ( as opposed to just questionable judgement, which they certainly were guilty of )?

 

[terry78]

Anything can be viewed as a war crime if you're biased against someone's decision. Everything America does is viewed as some kind of war crime, lol.

 

[Dark Raven]

Cap committed a war crime in CA:TFA. It was a crime that he didn't get to bang Peggy Carter during the war lol.

 

[Frico]

Redford would be a tremendous addition to an already impressive looking cast. REALLY hope this happens. Easily the next Marvel film I'm going to be anticipating the most.

 

[Xeno]

Okay, this is tangential, but. . . what?

No, they did not commit a war crime. They ordered a nuclear strike, under circumstances where it would be entirely reasonable to launch a nuclear strike, and with ( implicitly ) proper authority allowing them to do so.

What about their actions would even slightly constitute a war crime ( as opposed to just questionable judgement, which they certainly were guilty of )?

It is a war crime to use weapons of mass destruction in a populated area. From Wikipedia:

Examples of war crimes include "murder, the ill-treatment or deportation of civilian residents of an occupied territory to slave labor camps," "the murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war," the killing of prisoners, "the wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, and any devastation not justified by military, or civilian necessity."

The fact that they thought that it would stave off the Chitauri invasion might be a mitigating factor, but they acted against the advice of their own leader in the field, Fury, who deemed it unwarranted at the time. That falls under the heading of "...the wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, and any devastation not justified by military, or civilian necessity."


The Council was absolutely wrong, because the Black Widow had found the means to close the portal before they launched the nuke at New York. They panicked and jumped the gun, even though Fury argued with them to allow the team to do its work. The US government must have been just thrilled to watch a nuclear warhead unleashed on its largest city and be powerless to stop it. Millions would have died, and needlessly because they established that no form of energy could stop the Tesseract. And on top of that, they would have destroyed the Earth's one chance to stop the invasion, even as they slaughtered the population of one of humanity's greatest cities.


So yeah, I consider that a war crime. "We were afraid" is no more of an excuse than "I was just following orders." Maria Hill told the Council that SHIELD had kept proof of their actions for that reason: it could potentially be used as leverage.

 

[Dark Raven]

Redford would be a tremendous addition to an already impressive looking cast. REALLY hope this happens. Easily the next Marvel film I'm going to be anticipating the most.

Same here. I don't want to be reading that he ultimately passed on it, and then we'll all be saying "oh well, it was an awesome idea while it lasted" or "imagine what could have been" etc. This better not end up one of these "what if" scenarios.

 

[mkilban2]

In terms of politics, this could turn to be a great film for this country in general. ... I had a long elaborate post written up, but I think it's best to leave it at this:

Some politician: "Captain, are you a Democrat or a Republican?"

Cap: "I'm not Democrat, or a Republican"

stands up, classic Evans stair down

Cap: "I'm an American."



I also hope he gives some form of his epic speech.

A sequence like both above would be great to see. Plus politics are stupid anyways, I've never understood why one side has to be wired to hate someone from the other just because they don't believe the same things. People are so petty... and tiny

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Who are we thinking Redford would be playing?

 

[cherokeesam]

Who are we thinking Redford would be playing?

Woodward & Bernstein.

 

[Sawyer]

Woodward & Bernstein.

Both of them?

 

[DeGenerate10]

Because anyone that pays attention to politics labels Redford as a severe left wing nutball. This isn't 20 years ago, Redford's name carries huge baggage now.

This is an AWFUL idea any way you cut it. A Captain America film of all things should not cast politically charged actors of this degree. Severe left wing or severe right wing, Cap and Marvel should avoid it at all cost. If this casting does happen , it WILL hurt box office to some degree, trust me.

LOL Because that hurt the Avengers with Samuel L Jackson didn't it?

And if you don't know SLJ has been one of Obama's bigger supporters. Just because someone is a left wing or right wing doesn't mean it's going to affect their work.