The Winter Soldier Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

[BullMcGiveny]

How about visiting Old Peg in the nursing home? I think Cap would be smart enough to realize how ****ing inappropriate that is, too.

Joss realized how inappropriate it is, and he alludes to it in that deleted scene from Avengers. Cap takes a look at Peggy's SHIELD file, sees that she's still alive, sees a phone number there, realizes it would be wrong to try to contact her, and realizes he has to move on with his life, and that there's no question that Peggy moved on with hers. He quietly closes the file, and goes on.

That's a complete misreading of the scene. Steve doesn't call Peggy because he's no ready to confront her.

And that's where it should end, period. This "last dance with Old Peggy" **** is maudlin as hell. And it portrays Steve Rogers as a self-absorbed S.O.B., which he most certainly is not. What does he hope to gain from this? "Closure?" Closure for what? Seeing an old lady who went on and lived a full life without him being part of it at all? What's Peggy supposed to get out of it? The opportunity to feel ****ty because she and Howard Stark clearly didn't try hard enough to find Cap's body, since he was, you know, right there in the frickin' iceberg the whole time, still very much alive? I'm sure THAT will make her feel all tingly inside.

God. I hope to hell they leave this **** on the cutting room floor. You guys think this is some kind of heartwarming romantic scene, but it's not. It's maudlin melodrama that makes Steve Rogers look like a selfish ass. Even more so because it's taken him, what, 2 years to finally balls up to do the *wrong* thing and screw up this poor old woman's last days by re-lighting a spark that died 70 years ago?

Stupid. Just stupid.

Peggy knows Steve is back. The Chitauri attack received a lot of news coverage, the Avengers received a lot of news coverage. People know that Steve is the real deal, as evidenced by the leaked script pages detailing the scene with Steve and Sam.

So whatever feelings Peggy has, she's having them whether Steve visits her or not.

What's left is two people who were friends and comrades and would-be-lovers, who cared about each other and would still care about each other. They'd want to see each other just to see if the other was doing okay.

If Peggy saw the news and realized Cap was alive after all these years, and she did indeed feel guilty about not searching and never finding Cap (the ocean, BTW, is BIG), then would it be really better if Steve never visits her? Wouldn't that exacerbate her feelings of guilt?

 

[SpideyFan866]

How about visiting Old Peg in the nursing home? I think Cap would be smart enough to realize how ****ing inappropriate that is, too.

Joss realized how inappropriate it is, and he alludes to it in that deleted scene from Avengers. Cap takes a look at Peggy's SHIELD file, sees that she's still alive, sees a phone number there, realizes it would be wrong to try to contact her, and realizes he has to move on with his life, and that there's no question that Peggy moved on with hers. He quietly closes the file, and goes on.

And that's where it should end, period. This "last dance with Old Peggy" **** is maudlin as hell. And it portrays Steve Rogers as a self-absorbed S.O.B., which he most certainly is not. What does he hope to gain from this? "Closure?" Closure for what? Seeing an old lady who went on and lived a full life without him being part of it at all? What's Peggy supposed to get out of it? The opportunity to feel ****ty because she and Howard Stark clearly didn't try hard enough to find Cap's body, since he was, you know, right there in the frickin' iceberg the whole time, still very much alive? I'm sure THAT will make her feel all tingly inside.

God. I hope to hell they leave this **** on the cutting room floor. You guys think this is some kind of heartwarming romantic scene, but it's not. It's maudlin melodrama that makes Steve Rogers look like a selfish ass. Even more so because it's taken him, what, 2 years to finally balls up to do the *wrong* thing and screw up this poor old woman's last days by re-lighting a spark that died 70 years ago?

Stupid. Just stupid.

.............

[YT]5hfYJsQAhl0[/YT]

 

[Son of Coul]

Mother of God.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Mother of God.

[YT]jYj7T9eEQ4U[/YT]

 

[mkilban2]

Lol at all if this.. while the cap/Peggy reunion will be very nice and a good closure to the loose end of their 'relationship' in the first film, it by no means can possibly hurt this movie in any way. It can only help add to the story. I could see the scene in the last end of the movie where the main mission is over and villains defeated and someone tells cap to go take a break or something and he says, I have one last promise to keep, *cue visiting Peggy scene for 3 minutes.* regardless this movie is going to be a million times more important than a revisit with Peggy or a love angle with agent 13/black widow. There really shouldn't be pages of discussion about it lol.

 

[peterparker0077]

For ****s sake, dude, he promised her a dance and if you can't count on Steve ****ing Rogers to follow up on his word then who can you count on?

It'll be like a 2 minute lull between gunfights and punch scenes for Christsakes. I didn't realize so many manchildren frequented this forum. Unreal.

Not to mention Peggy most likely knows that Steve is back now since the battle for New York was all over the news and she probably saw him, or is wondering who is calling themselves Captain America and wearing something like Steve's old uniform. It would be out right rude for him to not see her one last time.

 

[Suzanne78]

I... Huh?

How in the world does Peggy and Steve seeing each other again after 70 years hurt CA:TWS?

The entire theme of the movie is Cap being revisited by the ghosts of his past, struggling to cope with waking up 70 years in the future and still dealing with people and things he thought were long since gone.

Peggy was one of the most important people to him just before he froze. She provides a direct connection to his past as well as (potentially) his future, being a relation to Sharon. Haley Atwell is also well loved by a majority of the Captain America/MCU fanbase. She has a short film, will be in flashbacks, and now this brief, sure to be touching scene in the present day.

Giving her a moment with Steve like this only ups the poignancy of his loss. It's the flip side of the Winter Soldier. If done right, Peggy's appearance should help anchor the film's heart.

I really cannot see the downside of her inclusion in the movie.

 

[chromehorn]

My guess is BW visits Peggy for info on Bucky. Peggy doesn't remember and the CA shows up to help her memory.

 

[Crimson King]

Sounds like Sam might've been left at the alter by a flame from 70 years ago. It's the only explanation for that tidal wave of hate.

 

[marcvader]

I have to admit I'm not a fan of the sappy melodrama either.

 

[Suzanne78]

I guess I don't see it as melodrama, but as a necessary throughline for one of the bigger parts of Cap's story in his origin movie. Bonus points if Chromehorn's spec pans out.

I do think it'll give this movie a lot of heart, a lot of relatability as well.

 

[ctsketch]

Out of all the phase 1 films I think TFA had the most soul. I don't expect TWS to be any different judging by what I'm seeing/hearing so far. There is something between Nolan's serious business and iron man's fun.

 

[cherokeesam]

For ****s sake, dude, he promised her a dance and if you can't count on Steve ****ing Rogers to follow up on his word then who can you count on?

It'll be like a 2 minute lull between gunfights and punch scenes for Christsakes. I didn't realize so many manchildren frequented this forum. Unreal.

I like ya and all, WT, but seriously: **** you and your "manchildren" snark. Goes for all the rest of you, too.

I don't give two ****s about gunfights and punch scenes; that's not what I care about in this movie. Hell, if they turn it into a 3-hour navel-gazing Terrence Malick film, I'd be all for that, too. What I care about is the portrayal of the characters, particularly the lead.

And this kind of scene does NOT portray Steve Rogers in a good light, at all. You guys are just looking at the surface: "Awwww, ain't that sweet....Steve's visiting his ol' sweetie in the nursing home and giving her that dance he promised her...." The reality of such a meeting would be a LOT more awkward and painfully unnecessary. For one, you guys seriously overexaggerate a non-physical flirt-crush from 70 years ago that was never consummated. It's not Romeo and Juliet, for crying out loud; hell, it's not even Tony and Pepper levels of "romance." But then you want to *compound* that by forcing them to relive it after Peggy has already lived her life to its fullest --- without Steve.

Ever hear of some old midlife-crisis guy or girl trying to look up their high school sweetheart to see if there's still a spark there after 20-30 years? Happens a lot. I've seen it personally, on more than one occasion, to my sister and a cousin as well. Not a pretty sight, especially since that "high school sweetheart" is usually happily married with kids, a career, and the whole nine yards. There's nothing even remotely romantic about those "reunions" --- just stalkerific and pathetic awkwardness that often winds up with the police and restraining orders getting involved. Now imagine that same scenario, with 70 years separating them....and only *one* of the "partners" aging commensurately. That's what you're talking about here.

The bottom line is that Peggy Carter lived her life in full, without Steve Rogers. She doesn't deserve to have that thrown back in her face in her waning years. Can't she die in peace, without some misplaced Harlequin romance writer shunting this kind of heartbreak from the past on her? Now she's gotta relive the pain of all the time she spent mourning Steve Rogers, summoning the courage to go on with her life, and now the facepalming pain of knowing that all she and Howard and the SSR and the rest of them had to do was make a quick recon of that big-ass iceberg where Skully's plane went down....?

This isn't romantic, people. This is sadistic. Peggy Carter deserves better than this. Steve Rogers deserves better than this.

 

[spideymouse]

Out of all the phase 1 films I think TFA had the most soul. I don't expect TWS to be any different judging by what I'm seeing/hearing so far. There is something between Nolan's serious business and iron man's fun.

I agree with you, but I don't even think there's a linear spectrum. Rogers is such a different character from either Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne that inherently you're going to have a completely different feel from a Cap movie.

 

[Kane52630]

How about visiting Old Peg in the nursing home? I think Cap would be smart enough to realize how ****ing inappropriate that is, too.

Joss realized how inappropriate it is, and he alludes to it in that deleted scene from Avengers. Cap takes a look at Peggy's SHIELD file, sees that she's still alive, sees a phone number there, realizes it would be wrong to try to contact her, and realizes he has to move on with his life, and that there's no question that Peggy moved on with hers. He quietly closes the file, and goes on.

And that's where it should end, period. This "last dance with Old Peggy" **** is maudlin as hell. And it portrays Steve Rogers as a self-absorbed S.O.B., which he most certainly is not. What does he hope to gain from this? "Closure?" Closure for what? Seeing an old lady who went on and lived a full life without him being part of it at all? What's Peggy supposed to get out of it? The opportunity to feel ****ty because she and Howard Stark clearly didn't try hard enough to find Cap's body, since he was, you know, right there in the frickin' iceberg the whole time, still very much alive? I'm sure THAT will make her feel all tingly inside.

God. I hope to hell they leave this **** on the cutting room floor. You guys think this is some kind of heartwarming romantic scene, but it's not. It's maudlin melodrama that makes Steve Rogers look like a selfish ass. Even more so because it's taken him, what, 2 years to finally balls up to do the *wrong* thing and screw up this poor old woman's last days by re-lighting a spark that died 70 years ago?

Stupid. Just stupid.

 

[Crimson King]

I like ya and all, WT, but seriously: **** you and your "manchildren" snark. Goes for all the rest of you, too.

I don't give two ****s about gunfights and punch scenes; that's not what I care about in this movie. Hell, if they turn it into a 3-hour navel-gazing Terrence Malick film, I'd be all for that, too. What I care about is the portrayal of the characters, particularly the lead.

And this kind of scene does NOT portray Steve Rogers in a good light, at all. You guys are just looking at the surface: "Awwww, ain't that sweet....Steve's visiting his ol' sweetie in the nursing home and giving her that dance he promised her...." The reality of such a meeting would be a LOT more awkward and painfully unnecessary. For one, you guys seriously overexaggerate a non-physical flirt-crush from 70 years ago that was never consummated. It's not Romeo and Juliet, for crying out loud; hell, it's not even Tony and Pepper levels of "romance." But then you want to *compound* that by forcing them to relive it after Peggy has already lived her life to its fullest --- without Steve.

Ever hear of some old midlife-crisis guy or girl trying to look up their high school sweetheart to see if there's still a spark there after 20-30 years? Happens a lot. I've seen it personally, on more than one occasion, to my sister and a cousin as well. Not a pretty sight, especially since that "high school sweetheart" is usually happily married with kids, a career, and the whole nine yards. There's nothing even remotely romantic about those "reunions" --- just stalkerific and pathetic awkwardness that often winds up with the police and restraining orders getting involved. Now imagine that same scenario, with 70 years separating them....and only *one* of the "partners" aging commensurately. That's what you're talking about here.

The bottom line is that Peggy Carter lived her life in full, without Steve Rogers. She doesn't deserve to have that thrown back in her face in her waning years. Can't she die in peace, without some misplaced Harlequin romance writer shunting this kind of heartbreak from the past on her? Now she's gotta relive the pain of all the time she spent mourning Steve Rogers, summoning the courage to go on with her life, and now the facepalming pain of knowing that all she and Howard and the SSR and the rest of them had to do was make a quick recon of that big-ass iceberg where Skully's plane went down....?

This isn't romantic, people. This is sadistic. Peggy Carter deserves better than this. Steve Rogers deserves better than this.

I don't know what's gotten into you, or what about this topic touches a nerve with you. Your whole reaction to this has been over the top and bizarre. No matter how much you want to pretend it isn't true, Peggy and Cap had a relationship in TFA. Notice that there's no quotes around that word. To deny they had a meaningful relationship is to straight up lie to yourself and ignore the obvious. I expect this of some others around here, but not you. You're not this kind of poster.

The Russos are dealing with the closure to Peggy and Cap because the story of Steve Rogers demands it. No, it's not creepy for him to visit her. No, it's not drudging up her pain right before she dies. It's a moment we've all been waiting to see. Everyone except you, I guess.

 

[jaqua99]

Sam I got your back!

 

[Coremax]

lol i seriously doubt peggy is going to get a restraining order against steve.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

We don't even know the context of the scene!

 

[Vartha]

If having the hots for that old Peggy is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

lol sick puppy, Tho I'm a bit older and safer for her hahaha

 

[summerteeth]

What's Peggy supposed to get out of it? The opportunity to feel ****ty because she and Howard Stark clearly didn't try hard enough to find Cap's body, since he was, you know, right there in the frickin' iceberg the whole time, still very much alive? I'm sure THAT will make her feel all tingly inside.

Stupid. Just stupid.

I would have agreed with you until you said this and it completely changed my mind. I mean after all she like the rest of the world just watched Cap take down an alien army hell bent on destroying Earth. So maybe this is the reason why he feels the need to go visit her because the cat is out of the bag now. She's probably sitting in the nursing home wondering if that really is him, Cap going to visit her can put her mind at ease.

 

[Vartha]

Personally, if you stop and think about it , Steve dating ANYONE in this time isn't any different than PEGGY dating someone way Younger.
In a way I see what Sam's saying tho, but I think SHIELD would have told Peggy, they had FOUND Steve in the first place. I don't think they'd leave her in the dark.
I mean she WAS heavily involved with that whole Super Soldier Program and we DON'T know what levels Peggy made it to in the SSR/Shield Ranks

 

[Suzanne78]

The bottom line is that Peggy Carter lived her life in full, without Steve Rogers. She doesn't deserve to have that thrown back in her face in her waning years. Can't she die in peace, without some misplaced Harlequin romance writer shunting this kind of heartbreak from the past on her? Now she's gotta relive the pain of all the time she spent mourning Steve Rogers, summoning the courage to go on with her life, and now the facepalming pain of knowing that all she and Howard and the SSR and the rest of them had to do was make a quick recon of that big-ass iceberg where Skully's plane went down....?

This isn't romantic, people. This is sadistic. Peggy Carter deserves better than this. Steve Rogers deserves better than this.

Again, we have no clue how the scene is going to be portrayed, is going to come across within the context of the movie.


I do find that saying Steve visiting Peggy is sadistic and both characters deserve better than this is way over the top. I'd say Winter Soldier is far, far more sadistic to Cap, seeing as how WS is constantly trying to kill him. This should be the flip side of that coin; Cap revisiting his past love (and yes, I do believe he was falling for her, if not already there. Sorry if you don't buy that) who isn't trying to kill him but maybe helping him let go of that part of his life.

In a narrative sense, I think, it helps bring Cap's TWS story, that he's trying to move on, but still drawn to and/or haunted by the ghosts of his past, full circle from TFA. He's going to be bombarded by his past, whether it be by Peggy, Zola, or Bucky.

And you don't hire a high calibre actress like Haley Atwell only to squander her away in a single movie. I'm so glad Marvel realized this and is giving Atwell some more things to do.

The sad thing is the response to Peggy's scenes are already getting blown up and we've seen nothing of them in the context of the actual movie. Patience, Padawans.

 

[Suzanne78]

Cherokeesam I have to ask you; do you feel the same way whenever Steve Rogers visits his former comrades from the past in his comic book? Because he's done that numerous times....

This is not that much different from him visiting old Bucky in Ultimates (who married his girl in that book), or in Mark Waid's Man Out of Time run. Peggy's one of the last remaining soldiers from his era still alive, and one he had a very close personal relationship with. It would make less sense for him to not visit her; in fact, I think there'd be a huge outcry if he didn't.

 

[marcvader]

I just keep hearing Unchained Melody while I read most of these posts.