Keyser Soze
AW YEEEAH!
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2002
- Messages
- 21,405
- Reaction score
- 14
- Points
- 33
Wow, you're really being obtuse about this. It's getting increasingly difficult to combat your argument, because you have no argument, as the perimeters of whatever it is you've said you meant all along seem to change with every post. You can't now say that your argument is "Comics Cap is generally against killing but will do it if he has to," because THIS was the exact point made by people who you challenged and accused of knowing nothing about the comics because they thought this and didn't hold your opinion he absolutely refused to kill ever.
As far as your challenges to name the kills from Brubaker's run, I didn't think it was necessary to haul out my old omnibus edition and pore over it for all the specific examples with all the other scans and examples already provided by others, and I don't even know how much good this will do anyway with how you keep shifting the goalposts, but here they are:
- Issue #1, the one already discussed at length and with scans posted, where he tosses terrorists from a runaway train, killing two, and putting another in a coma, while injuring several bystanders. You say this apparently doesn't count because he was in a bad mood when he did it, or something.
- Issue #2, he goes on a dual mission with Sharon Carter where he covers her while she guns down terrorists with an assault rifle. During this scene, there is one moment where he ricochets his shield off the wall so that the bad guys' bullets bounce off it and hit each other. Later on, a bad guy is running to flick the switch on a bomb, so Cap throws his shield into his back, knocking him into a fire and killing him.
- Issue #5, there are two separate moments where Captain America kills a bunch of baddies with a grenade, one long-range, and one where he puts it in a tank then holds the hatch closed so no one can escape. But it's World War II so by your increasingly intricate requirements for inclusion also doesn't count. In the same issue, he watches a Russian general brutally torture a Nazi for information without interfering, saying, "I don't approve of Karpov's methods, but they get results."
-Issue #8, it's more ambiguous, but he takes out a member of the AIM hit squad by grabbing his head and jerking it, with a KRAK! sound effect. It's not specified, but implied it's a neck-break kill.
- Issue #10, in the raid on Kronos HQ, again, he's not the one doing the killing, but is on a mission providing cover to lots of SHIELD agents who are wielding weapons and firing them at the bad guys - so no objection to lethal force.
- Issue #17, when a bunch of the AIM baddies start shooting at him, he grabs the nearest one and pulls him in front of him to take the gunfire to the back, even when he's holding the shield in the other hand.
And there's also an interview with Brubaker in the backmatter where he says, "That's what really bugged me about Cap in the late 80s and early 90s, when they completely sissified Captain America. Here's a guy who fought in WWII for five years and you're telling me he's never killed anybody?" He then goes on to talk about Cap in WWII, where again his death toll apparently doesn't count, but it's clear Brubaker feels Cap shouldn't be made totally toothless.
As far as your challenges to name the kills from Brubaker's run, I didn't think it was necessary to haul out my old omnibus edition and pore over it for all the specific examples with all the other scans and examples already provided by others, and I don't even know how much good this will do anyway with how you keep shifting the goalposts, but here they are:
- Issue #1, the one already discussed at length and with scans posted, where he tosses terrorists from a runaway train, killing two, and putting another in a coma, while injuring several bystanders. You say this apparently doesn't count because he was in a bad mood when he did it, or something.
- Issue #2, he goes on a dual mission with Sharon Carter where he covers her while she guns down terrorists with an assault rifle. During this scene, there is one moment where he ricochets his shield off the wall so that the bad guys' bullets bounce off it and hit each other. Later on, a bad guy is running to flick the switch on a bomb, so Cap throws his shield into his back, knocking him into a fire and killing him.
- Issue #5, there are two separate moments where Captain America kills a bunch of baddies with a grenade, one long-range, and one where he puts it in a tank then holds the hatch closed so no one can escape. But it's World War II so by your increasingly intricate requirements for inclusion also doesn't count. In the same issue, he watches a Russian general brutally torture a Nazi for information without interfering, saying, "I don't approve of Karpov's methods, but they get results."
-Issue #8, it's more ambiguous, but he takes out a member of the AIM hit squad by grabbing his head and jerking it, with a KRAK! sound effect. It's not specified, but implied it's a neck-break kill.
- Issue #10, in the raid on Kronos HQ, again, he's not the one doing the killing, but is on a mission providing cover to lots of SHIELD agents who are wielding weapons and firing them at the bad guys - so no objection to lethal force.
- Issue #17, when a bunch of the AIM baddies start shooting at him, he grabs the nearest one and pulls him in front of him to take the gunfire to the back, even when he's holding the shield in the other hand.
And there's also an interview with Brubaker in the backmatter where he says, "That's what really bugged me about Cap in the late 80s and early 90s, when they completely sissified Captain America. Here's a guy who fought in WWII for five years and you're telling me he's never killed anybody?" He then goes on to talk about Cap in WWII, where again his death toll apparently doesn't count, but it's clear Brubaker feels Cap shouldn't be made totally toothless.
