Captain America: Brave New World - News & Speculation Thread

[AndrewGilkison]

Or shouldn't have happened in the first place.

I think they simply don't have the right story. The trailers don't look exciting as well.

It feels weird to have Red Hulk and The Leader as the villains for a Captain America movie, with no Bruce Banner or Hulk in sight.

 

[Mysteryman]

Feels like they set out to make a prelude to a World War Hulk film.But, then some tried to reinsert a stronger presence for Sam’s Cap and now, it’s like the 2 sides of the film are gong to war with one
another.

 

[psylockolussus]

Thunderbolts is a bigger question mark than this in terms of box office performance. That one might go the way of The Marvels.

The Fall Guy which opened the 2024 summer movie season earned more than The Marvels in North America. Worldwide gross? Who knows if Thunderbolts would perform as bad as The Marvels. I think the first weekend of May should benefit Thunderbolts* in North America, at least.

But this trio of Captain America legacy movie / Thunderbolts / Fantastic 4 reboot for 2025 isn't very smart. Doctor Strange 3 and Black Panther 3 would have been better options, than a Sam Wilson movie and a Thunderbolts movie. While a Mcu Fantastic 4 movie should have happened in phase 4, before we see Mcu finally imploding and getting diminishing results. A Fantastic 4 movie coming out in 2021 or 2022, would have gotten a bigger shot at box office success, than in 2025.

Brave New World getting ripped by critics in February wouldn't help the interest for Thunderbolts* and the Fantastic 4.

 

[DyeLorean]

I still have faith in a World War Z way.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Hopefully this makes Marvel realize that they need to utilize their A list characters, GOTG was the exception not the rule. They don’t have some magic ability to turn D listers into beloved characters like they thought they did.

If they want fans to fall in love with the MCU again we need the real Cap, Iron Man, a version of Hulk that’s not a complete pu***, etc;

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Fall Guy which opened the 2024 summer movie season earned more than The Marvels in North America. Worldwide gross? Who knows if Thunderbolts would perform as bad as The Marvels. I think the first weekend of May should benefit Thunderbolts* in North America, at least.

But this trio of Captain America legacy movie / Thunderbolts / Fantastic 4 reboot for 2025 isn't very smart. Doctor Strange 3 and Black Panther 3 would have been better options, than a Sam Wilson movie and a Thunderbolts movie. While a Mcu Fantastic 4 movie should have happened in phase 4, before we see Mcu finally imploding and getting diminishing results. A Fantastic 4 movie coming out in 2021 or 2022, would have gotten a bigger shot at box office success, than in 2025.

Brave New World getting ripped by critics in February wouldn't help the interest for Thunderbolts* and the Fantastic 4.

Fantastic Four is directly delayed cause they couldn't work on it until after the deal was finalized with Fox and Disney. So 2021 for a turnaround time would have been way optimistic. As honestly would 2022 have been. Especially factoring Covid delays and such. 2024 is probably when ideally FF SHOULD have come. But it is what it is.

 

[Venom 1988]

Hopefully this makes Marvel realize that they need to utilize their A list characters, GOTG was the exception not the rule. They don’t have some magic ability to turn D listers into beloved characters like they thought they did.

If they want fans to fall in love with the MCU again we need the real Cap, Iron Man, a version of Hulk that’s not a complete pu***, etc;

You realize Iron Man, Cap, Thor, etc.. were not A-list characters until the MCU right?

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

You realize Iron Man, Cap, Thor, etc.. were not A-list characters until the MCU right?

What are you arguing? I’m saying they’re focusing on Z-listers that nobody gives a **** about like Ironheart and Shuri. Those characters are sh** and have no fans whatsoever. Even after their film appearances. Compared to Iron Man and Black Panther, it’s laughable that Marvel would think people would care about those two, like they have some magic touch to turn sh** into gold.

The three you mentioned weren’t well-known to the mainstream but they have always had fans and long running comic series. Those three have always had diehard fans. They’ve never been D-listers, ever. The only D-listers Marvel have managed to elevate are GOTG. But they couldn’t do it with other characters even though they’ve tried. Now i will admit that D-list wasn’t low enough to describe some of the current crop of heroes: now they’re focusing on Z-listers.

Cap, IM and Thor were at the very top of the list of characters Marvel had the rights to, they were unquestionably at the top of the pile in terms of potential and relevance to the comics. Fans that knew the characters knew they had potential. I can’t say the same about Ironheart or Shuri. In nearly every big event in Marvel’s history prior to the MCU, you could probably find Cap, IM and Thor.

Your argument is strange. Are you trying to compare someone like Ironheart to pre MCU Iron Man? I’m saying they can’t turn a **** character like Ironheart into a beloved character like Iron Man. They’re incomparable. Iron Man had a wealth of stories to choose from, a decent amount of fans, and even an animated series before his film debut. Many of the new crop of characters they are focusing on now are bottom of the barrel.

I think they should recast Steve Rogers and Tony Stark if Evans and Downey are too expensive. And BP needs to be recast as well, Shuri is lame and uninteresting as a lead. Hulk needs to be a savage again. Thor is fine but they leaned too heavily into the comedy.

 

[lenz]

Hopefully this makes Marvel realize that they need to utilize their A list characters, GOTG was the exception not the rule. They don’t have some magic ability to turn D listers into beloved characters like they thought they did.

If they want fans to fall in love with the MCU again we need the real Cap, Iron Man, a version of Hulk that’s not a complete pu***, etc;

In general this is absolutely true.

I think Marvel have more characters that can attract wider audiences than DC. They just have failed to explore them beyond the 4 quadrant formula they've been using. So they need go start developing those in earnest going forward too. Deadpool was the first move into new territory (in film rating at least) and hopefully Daredevil delivers on the TV-MA in a few months.

The reality though is there are 4 or 5 franchises/ characters that need to be the backbone at all times. The Avengers (with at least one of Cap, Thor, or Iron Man always factored in), Iron Man (solo), Cap solo (Steve Rogers), Thor solo, and a Hulk that isn't neutered (some of the great Hulk runs in the comics have yet to be explored).

Unfortunately Spider-Man cannot be guaranteed long term, but the strategic intelligence of the first 12 years of the MCU of building up other characters status can make up for that, somewhat.

Fortunately they can now use the X-Men and the Fantastic Four to add to their big screen dominance. Speaking of hope, don't squander these...

 

[Spider-Fan]

What are you arguing? I’m saying they’re focusing on Z-listers that nobody gives a **** about like Ironheart and Shuri. Those characters are sh** and have no fans whatsoever. Even after their film appearances. Compared to Iron Man and Black Panther, it’s laughable that Marvel would think people would care about those two, like they have some magic touch to turn sh** into gold.

The three you mentioned weren’t well-known to the mainstream but they have always had fans and long running comic series. Those three have always had diehard fans. They’ve never been D-listers, ever. The only D-listers Marvel have managed to elevate are GOTG. But they couldn’t do it with other characters even though they’ve tried. Now i will admit that D-list wasn’t low enough to describe some of the current crop of heroes: now they’re focusing on Z-listers.

Cap, IM and Thor were at the very top of the list of characters Marvel had the rights to, they were unquestionably at the top of the pile in terms of potential and relevance to the comics. Fans that knew the characters knew they had potential. I can’t say the same about Ironheart or Shuri. In nearly every big event in Marvel’s history prior to the MCU, you could probably find Cap, IM and Thor.

Your argument is strange. Are you trying to compare someone like Ironheart to pre MCU Iron Man? I’m saying they can’t turn a **** character like Ironheart into a beloved character like Iron Man. They’re incomparable. Iron Man had a wealth of stories to choose from, a decent amount of fans, and even an animated series before his film debut. Many of the new crop of characters they are focusing on now are bottom of the barrel.

I think they should recast Steve Rogers and Tony Stark if Evans and Downey are too expensive. And BP needs to be recast as well, Shuri is lame and uninteresting as a lead. Hulk needs to be a savage again. Thor is fine but they leaned too heavily into the comedy.

Not being really popular doesn't necessarily mean the MCU version won't be popular or won't appeal to a general audience. How many people really cared about Blade before Wesley Snipes? Agatha Harkness has suddenly become a popular character. Try telling that to my 13 year old self that would be a thing one day. I think the larger issue is they haven't sustained momentum for these newer characters. I know we have way more characters fighting for attention now, but Cap, Thor, and Iron Man largely didn't go 2 years between appearances during the Infinity Saga. That keeps characters in the public eye even if they're not getting a movie for themselves right then. This is why not having a smaller scale Avengers or equivalent team up movie in Phase 4 or Phase 5 before Thunderbolts in 2025 was a monumentally bad idea. Marvel needed to identify who are the top tier players, keep them involved, and have team-ups to interact with the second tier newer generation. Aka, what they were doing so well in the Infinity Saga

 

[Venom 1988]

What are you arguing? I’m saying they’re focusing on Z-listers that nobody gives a **** about like Ironheart and Shuri. Those characters are sh** and have no fans whatsoever. Even after their film appearances. Compared to Iron Man and Black Panther, it’s laughable that Marvel would think people would care about those two, like they have some magic touch to turn sh** into gold.

The three you mentioned weren’t well-known to the mainstream but they have always had fans and long running comic series. Those three have always had diehard fans. They’ve never been D-listers, ever. The only D-listers Marvel have managed to elevate are GOTG. But they couldn’t do it with other characters even though they’ve tried. Now i will admit that D-list wasn’t low enough to describe some of the current crop of heroes: now they’re focusing on Z-listers.

Cap, IM and Thor were at the very top of the list of characters Marvel had the rights to, they were unquestionably at the top of the pile in terms of potential and relevance to the comics. Fans that knew the characters knew they had potential. I can’t say the same about Ironheart or Shuri. In nearly every big event in Marvel’s history prior to the MCU, you could probably find Cap, IM and Thor.

Your argument is strange. Are you trying to compare someone like Ironheart to pre MCU Iron Man? I’m saying they can’t turn a **** character like Ironheart into a beloved character like Iron Man. They’re incomparable. Iron Man had a wealth of stories to choose from, a decent amount of fans, and even an animated series before his film debut. Many of the new crop of characters they are focusing on now are bottom of the barrel.

I think they should recast Steve Rogers and Tony Stark if Evans and Downey are too expensive. And BP needs to be recast as well, Shuri is lame and uninteresting as a lead. Hulk needs to be a savage again. Thor is fine but they leaned too heavily into the comedy.

Bro chill lol. I wrote 1 sentence and you flip out with a novel. I'm not arguing anything. I'm simply saying the MCU was built off the back of B and C list characters. That's not debatable. Am I comparing Iron Heart to Iron Man or Shuri to T'Challa? No I'm not lol though Im not gonna say they are Z-list either, that's reserved for people like Forbush Man. And you're being deliberately obtuse if you don't think some of the newer characters don't have any fans at all.

Using lesser known characters is not inherintly bad nor is that alone the reason why the MCU has been stumbling the last few years.

 

[DyeLorean]

Lesser known characters are not a problem per se, it's the way they've been using/presenting them. There's not a straight storyline anymore building on top of itself like in the first few phases of the MCU where all the pieces were part of the same puzzle.
It's all so random and isolated now, why would I care about Ironheart?? Or even Shang-Chi at this point. Nothing matters, it's all a mess.
The movies and series are still presented as pieces of something else and that something else is blurry as f.

 

[Venom 1988]

Lesser known characters are not a problem per se, it's the way they've been using/presenting them. There's not a straight storyline anymore building on top of itself like in the first few phases of the MCU where all the pieces were part of the same puzzle.
It's all so random and isolated now, why would I care about Ironheart?? Or even Shang-Chi at this point. Nothing matters, it's all a mess.
The movies and series are still presented as pieces of something else and that something else is blurry as f.

I agree. Like Spider-Fan said, they needed to have smaller scale team ups and have these new characters popping in other projects and continue with the connective tissue that worked so well before. Shang-Chi was great but it's been 3 years and we still have no idea when we're getting a sequel, let alone when he's gonna show up again.

 

[DyeLorean]

Shang-Chi was great but it's been 3 years and we still have no idea when we're getting a sequel, let alone when he's gonna show up again.

Yes and what has been bothering me a lot are those post credits scenes like Shang-Chi's that lead nowhere. What was once exciting now feels like a scam.

 

[Lily Adler]

I still have faith in a World War Z way.

So no sequels?

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I have zero interest in a Shang Chi sequel and honestly hope he doesn’t show up and eat precious screen time in Spider-Man 4. Shang Chi is so uninteresting to me in the comics and on film. Simu Liu is great though. Cretton not helming any Avengers movies was such a sigh of relief for me. Didn’t want that D lister taking the lead instead of someone like Steve or Spidey. I’m so glad Eternals have gone nowhere. Not every story requires a neat ending IMO, I’m fine with plot points from something like Eternals or Ironheart remaining unresolved indefinitely. Idgaf

 

[Spider-Fan]

I have zero interest in a Shang Chi sequel and honestly hope he doesn’t show up and eat precious screen time in Spider-Man 4. Shang Chi is so uninteresting to me in the comics and on film. Simu Liu is great though. Cretton not helming any Avengers movies was such a sigh of relief for me. Didn’t want that D lister taking the lead instead of someone like Steve or Spidey. I’m so glad Eternals have gone nowhere. Not every story requires a neat ending IMO, I’m fine with plot points from something like Eternals or Ironheart remaining unresolved indefinitely. Idgaf

Shang-Chi though was one of their better successes given how it performed during the pandemic, and he was an obvious building block with the general public. They just fumbled it by not having him show up anywhere. I get it if you don't personally like him, that's fine. We all have our favorites and characters we don't connect with. But that's different than arguing who is a build able piece. Cause that now takes into account popular opinion.

We can have a discussion about if putting Steve or Tony in ice was the best idea business wise. But I think it'd be easier to argue this if Marvel was more successfully using these characters and the grosses were declining at the same rate. But when execution of post MCU characters had been spotty at best, then it's hare to determine if it's an interest or execution issue. I think, for example, had The Marvels come out in day, 2022, that would have done better. How much better? Anyone's guess. But they definitely waited too long.

Really I think 2 major events put us where we are: Boseman's death and the decision not to do smaller scale Avengers films. If we had a Phase 4 Avengers movie based on say Secret Invasion instead of it being a show or whatever smaller scale story, then we get to showcase a New Avengers of newer characters we can grow to love and we keep them involved. Without that, the window to push the new blood isn't there, and thus the audience isn't connected to them. Only really Yelena has been properly done in this way IMO. And it shows in the fact that Yelena is well liked. It's also clear to me, T'Challa was going to be the new Iron Man of the MCU, and losing Boseman left a major hole the MCU has never recovered from. I think they may use D&W's success as an excuse to make that character Hugh Jackman Wolverine now, but prior, the MCU didn't know who to put in that slot that was meant for T'Challa. That's my guess at least

 

[lenz]

There's only 2-3 years left of the MCU after this film is ŕelased. I don't think it's getting an official sequel.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There's only 2-3 years left of the MCU after this film is ŕelased. I don't think it's getting an official sequel.

Nah the MCU will keep on churning along. The X-Men are more than likely taking center stage post Secret Wars

 

[lenz]

The universe will be reset though. Call it a reboot or a soft reboot, the MCU canon won't be the foundation. So they can recast Tony, Steve, etc.

For marketing reasons I would not call this new universe the MCU.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The universe will be reset though. Call it a reboot or a soft reboot, the MCU canon won't be the foundation. So they can recast Tony, Steve, etc.

For marketing reasons I would not call this new universe the MCU.

I dont think it will be a vast reboot, honestly. I think it's going to be a very minor one

 

[Spider-Fan]

To add to my above post, I don't think we're getting Steve or Tony back full time as new actors. Nor do I think that's what they should do. You already have too many IPs competing for attention. Let these ones go, and pick a few that you want to build strong full time. FF, Spider-Man, and X-Men are 3. You can get multiple sequels there. Then there will be BP3, DS3, etc. Finish those trilogies out. Maybe T'Challa Jr becomes BP and you do mote of those if it works. Beyond that fold a lot of there characters that won't get sequels into Avengers or whatever team films. Focus more on the mutant characters to try an create new IPs that can get sequels. If you're still doing Iron Man or Cap and such with new actors that's going to make sequels take too much time and you're in the same position of not keeping characters on the public eye

 

[lenz]

To add to my above post, I don't think we're getting Steve or Tony back full time as new actors. Nor do I think that's what they should do. You already have too many IPs competing for attention. Let these ones go, and pick a few that you want to build strong full time. FF, Spider-Man, and X-Men are 3. You can get multiple sequels there. Then there will be BP3, DS3, etc. Finish those trilogies out. Maybe T'Challa Jr becomes BP and you do mote of those if it works. Beyond that fold a lot of there characters that won't get sequels into Avengers or whatever team films. Focus more on the mutant characters to try an create new IPs that can get sequels. If you're still doing Iron Man or Cap and such with new actors that's going to make sequels take too much time and you're in the same position of not keeping characters on the public eye

I think it would be a creatively bankrupt decision not to go for a massive change, but I'll leave it at that for now.

I agree that the Fantastic Four and the X-Men should be the backbone of whatever form this new universe takes, but I think Marvel should have alternate plans that don't involve Spider-Man. Sony can easily decide not to cooperate and dictate terms if they don't get story beats that they agree with, etc. Or they may decide to try a Spider-centric universe again, only this time with Spidey.

In general I would focus on three main aspects, Cosmic, Supernatural, and the backbone Mainline U (or Earth, Heaven and Hell), which can have its feet in either if the story requires it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think it would be a creatively bankrupt decision not to go for a massive change, but I'll leave it at that for now.

I agree that the Fantastic Four and the X-Men should be the backbone of whatever form this new universe takes, but I think Marvel should have alternate plans that don't involve Spider-Man. Sony can easily decide not to cooperate and dictate terms if they don't get story beats that they agree with, etc. Or they may decide to try a Spider-centric universe again, only this time with Spidey.

In general I would focus on three main aspects, Cosmic, Supernatural, and the backbone Mainline U, which can have its feet in either if the story requires it.

I think Marvel and Sony as to keep the Spider-Man and Marvel brand both in better standing need to come to some sort of arrangement where maybe Marvel and Sony make 1 Spider-Man based project a year, whether it has Spider-Man or not. Cause making 15% RT flops is doing no one any favors. Help Sony make this Spider-Man universe work. This time with Spider-Man in it. I would agree Spider-Man needs to not be the center of everything you're doing, but he needs to be actively involved. Cause right now, that's been the MCU's most reliable money recently

 

[lenz]

I think Marvel and Sony as to keep the Spider-Man and Marvel brand both in better standing need to come to some sort of arrangement where maybe Marvel and Sony make 1 Spider-Man based project a year, whether it has Spider-Man or not. Cause making 15% RT flops is doing no one any favors. Help Sony make this Spider-Man universe work. This time with Spider-Man in it. I would agree Spider-Man needs to not be the center of everything you're doing, but he needs to be actively involved. Cause right now, that's been the MCU's most reliable money recently

This would be nice, but ultimately its never going to be an ideal situation for either studio and compromises are always going to be needed. I'm all for compromise to a degree, it's how much compromise that's the issue.

Also worth noting that as huge as NWH was at the box office, Marvel only got a 25% share of the profits by this partnership.

Disney does get full benefit of the merchandise sales though.