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Captain America: Brave New World - News & Speculation Thread

The universe will be reset though. Call it a reboot or a soft reboot, the MCU canon won't be the foundation.
If it's a soft reboot, which chances are that's probably the way they are going. The MCU canon is still the foundation. That's what a soft reboot is, keeping most of the history with minor tweaks or changes. If they throw the baby out with the bathwater, that's not gonna benefit anyone, Marvel especially.
 
If it's a soft reboot, which chances are that's probably the way they are going. The MCU canon is still the foundation. That's what a soft reboot is, keeping most of the history with minor tweaks or changes. If they throw the baby out with the bathwater, that's not gonna benefit anyone, Marvel especially.

Why wouldn't it benefit them? They have 95% of the characters now.

"most of the history"

OK. I guess there is a grey margin to play with there. If it means that you create a new universe where you can't bring all of the iconic characters back together under one roof, ie the classic Avengers, X-Men and the Fantastic Four, what is the point? You should want a reset to do things creatively you couldn't do the first go- round.

I feel most people would prefer a wholesale change over bringing in any creative initiative that's happened post Endgame.

We know it's likely not going to be a 100% reboot because Reed and co. are iconic and will be new entries prior to Secret Wars. After them it's open for debate as far as I'm concerned.
 
How the **** did we get here?

A Sam Wilson Captain America movie should not have been this hard to make.

I mean, Falcon and Winter Soldier says otherwise. A combination of incompetence and bad luck lead to way, way too many controversies around the film.

This would be nice, but ultimately its never going to be an ideal situation for either studio and compromises are always going to be needed. I'm all for compromise to a degree, it's how much compromise that's the issue.

Also worth noting that as huge as NWH was at the box office, Marvel only got a 25% share of the profits by this partnership.

Disney does get full benefit of the merchandise sales though.

NWH did however, give Strange 2 a ****ton of free advertising, which it very much directly profited off of. So, fully expect some MCU character to be heavily featured in Spidey 4.
 
This would be nice, but ultimately its never going to be an ideal situation for either studio and compromises are always going to be needed. I'm all for compromise to a degree, it's how much compromise that's the issue.

Also worth noting that as huge as NWH was at the box office, Marvel only got a 25% share of the profits by this partnership.

Disney does get full benefit of the merchandise sales though.
25% of like a billion in profit is a lot! Data will also show Disney does a lot better with Spider-Man merch when the movies are doing well. During the TASM2 period, Spider-Man merch was way down. Also, as @Sithborg pointed out, NWH helped MoM at the box office. So it very much is to Disney's benefit.
 
Why wouldn't it benefit them? They have 95% of the characters now.

"most of the history"

OK. I guess there is a grey margin to play with there. If it means that you create a new universe where you can't bring all of the iconic characters back together under one roof, ie the classic Avengers, X-Men and the Fantastic Four, what is the point? You should want a reset to do things creatively you couldn't do the first go- round.

I feel most people would prefer a wholesale change over bringing in any creative initiative that's happened post Endgame.

We know it's likely not going to be a 100% reboot because Reed and co. are iconic and will be new entries prior to Secret Wars. After them it's open for debate as far as I'm concerned.
I think you may be disappointed by how much actually changes.
 
I don't know how much change they could do at this point, the movie should be in picture locked next month, if not at the end of this year.

The only good thing that would come out from this, is it wouldn't lead to a Captain America 5 and 6, and a bunch of legacy characters getting their own movie and possibly being called as the new Iron Man.
 
Why wouldn't it benefit them? They have 95% of the characters now.

"most of the history"

OK. I guess there is a grey margin to play with there. If it means that you create a new universe where you can't bring all of the iconic characters back together under one roof, ie the classic Avengers, X-Men and the Fantastic Four, what is the point? You should want a reset to do things creatively you couldn't do the first go- round.

I feel most people would prefer a wholesale change over bringing in any creative initiative that's happened post Endgame.

We know it's likely not going to be a 100% reboot because Reed and co. are iconic and will be new entries prior to Secret Wars. After them it's open for debate as far as I'm concerned.
Agreed completely.

It feels pretty unsatisfying that the X-Men and F4 are entering a world where IM and Cap aren’t around, or from a different universe entirely. Huge bummer the way they’ve handled things with F4 being in a different universe. And the X-Men finally arrive and they might never get to meet Steve or Tony. It’s just a bummer if they don’t bring those two guys back. Sam and Ironheart are not even close to being as interesting.
 
Is it bad that I prefer to rewatch the first 18 MCU movies for the upteenth time, and then a few of the rest of them and not really getting excited for future movies? The death of Iron Man, the semi death of Captain America (Evans leaving and his Cap growing old out of the timeline) the death of Black Panther and the 5 year blip caused by Thanos just took the fun and excitement of the MCU out of me.

I said it years ago, if Downey and Evans wanted to leave the MCU, then say goodbye to them in a good movie about their characters AND THEN RECAST THEM. The same for Black Panther. It was a terrible shame that Bozeman died, but his part should have been recast. I have watched many franchises where the lead character has been played by multiple different actors. They didn't stop making Tarzan, James Bond, Doctor Who or dozens of other franchises because the original actor left.

As for the 5 year blip....it doesn't seem like they know how to handle it from movie to movie. It was an earth shattering event for one movie, now it's an annoyance if they even bother to acknowledge it at all.
 
Yeah I think choosing not to recast these characters and maintain a rolling continuity was a mistake.
 
Boseman being recast would have been in horrendously poor taste and was a totally unrealistic thing to expect Coogler and co to do. So, that's in its own category.

From my POV, honestly, they did the right thing with not recasting - these are very specific versions of the characters in many ways built around the performer (why would anyone want to see MCU Tony played by anyone but RDJ? It's never been about the character, it's always been about him) - they simply totally bungled introducing new leads. The glut of substandard D+ series nobody watched and some truly terrible films did not help that.

Plus, Endgame was an ending. They would never, ever wrap up the MCU - I recognize that is unrealistic - but to me it really felt like a natural point for it to come to an end and start wrapping up its subfranchises. I feel like that's been a huge part of their issue: it feels like a lifeless extension of a finished story.
 
I feel that they could have waited a couple of years after Bozeman's death and then introduced a new actor in the part. Most people would have excepted it. I was around in the 60's when Sean Connery as Bond was as big as The Beatles. When he left, many people said that would be the end of the Bond movies because the franchise had been built around him. I wonder what ever became of that guy?
 
Boseman being recast would have been in horrendously poor taste and was a totally unrealistic thing to expect Coogler and co to do. So, that's in its own category.

From my POV, honestly, they did the right thing with not recasting - these are very specific versions of the characters in many ways built around the performer (why would anyone want to see MCU Tony played by anyone but RDJ? It's never been about the character, it's always been about him) - they simply totally bungled introducing new leads. The glut of substandard D+ series nobody watched and some truly terrible films did not help that.

Plus, Endgame was an ending. They would never, ever wrap up the MCU - I recognize that is unrealistic - but to me it really felt like a natural point for it to come to an end and start wrapping up its subfranchises. I feel like that's been a huge part of their issue: it feels like a lifeless extension of a finished story.
I disagree on Boseman. T'Challa was/is an necessity for Black Panther. While Boseman was significant and important to the role, Black Panther/T'Challa is very much a symbol for the black community. Which has been more upset about having a black icon "taken" from them, then any perceived disrespect they would of found with a recast. I get how the crew and his family may have felt. But we are talking about a fictional character that has and will continue to exist separate from that fantastic performance.

I agree on Endgame being an ending. I disagree the MCU had to end there. I agree the issue is the characters chosen and some pretty ugh films (I honestly like more phase 4/5 flicks then other phases, but I'm not crazy about these movies overall). I honestly think one of their biggest issue was squandering those who were super hot post-Endgame. They had big characters to carry it own. Spidey, Carol, Thor, Strange. Why was it Black Widow (dead), Shang-Chi (completely separate) and Eternals (completely separate) their post-FFH flicks? Why did it take 4 years for CM 2? With the passing of Boseman, why was Black Panther a bigger priority then some other long waiting franchises?

Baiting people with the big characters and interconnectivity (as false as it could be) is what sold all the other projects to people. We saw it with Spidey and Strange back to back. Waiting 7 years for an Avengers flick, meaning we don't have new Avengers established, and thus people feel like these characters don't matter.

The TV shows, even as I enjoy some, have been their biggest misfire though. Made people think they had to watch a bunch of shows to keep up. Huge own goal, that caused people to disengage.
 
They've done such a **** job setting the stage for the next group of Avengers that I honestly expect Secret Wars to lean heavily on the multiversal characters. Don't be surprised when Maguire, Garfield, and Jackman are principals.

Deep down, I bet Feige just wants to get past this phase so they can dive head first into the X-Men stuff. Even he's gotta start to realize they've squeezed all of the blood out of the Avengers orange.

RDJ as Doctor Doom. Jesus Christ. :funny:
 
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They've done such a **** job setting the stage for the next group of Avengers that I honestly expect Secret Wars to lean heavily on the multiversal characters. Expect Maguire, Garfield, and Jackman to be principals.

Deep down, I bet Feige just wants to get past this phase so they can dive head first into the X-Men stuff. Even he's gotta start to realize they've squeezed all of the blood out of the Avengers orange.
I really think Feige got cocky. Thought he could do whatever he wanted, and it would all go great. He knows how to create gold out of C-list characters!

I also think Disney asking for so much content with Disney+ being a thing. So many of the shows are just stretched out flicks, because that's all Feige knows how to produce and thus can't tell when something is going poorly on that side.

I think they're trying to rush to X-Men now, to try and separate from their down period. He found something people seem to engage with, and is switching up. Using nostalgia to transition profitably. And god does that make me so sad.
 
I think we're beyond the point of return on recasting. I would have recast myself, including T'Challa. But at this point, I don't think it's viable. Especially when now we're not even doing it for characters from the Fox-Men era.
 
I really think Feige got cocky. Thought he could do whatever he wanted, and it would all go great. He knows how to create gold out of C-list characters!

I also think Disney asking for so much content with Disney+ being a thing. So many of the shows are just stretched out flicks, because that's all Feige knows how to produce and thus can't tell when something is going poorly on that side.

I think they're trying to rush to X-Men now, to try and separate from their down period. He found something people seem to engage with, and is switching up. Using nostalgia to transition profitably. And god does that make me so sad.
Totally. And I think this goes back to some of C. Lee's point. We are now FINALLY getting to Doctor Doom and one of the most celebrated storylines in Marvel Comics, and we're getting it without Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, and T'Challa. Supposedly, this Doom won't even have a long-contested rivalry with Richards. And he's going up against... who? A bunch of characters we've seen one time, and a bunch of legacy characters from other studios.

I've been waiting for a proper Doctor Doom for decades. And now, we're not only getting gimmick casting with RDJ, but he's the villain that's getting the "rush to the finish line" treatment so we can make way for the X-Men.

It's bull****.
 
I think we're beyond the point of return on recasting. I would have recast myself, including T'Challa. But at this point, I don't think it's viable. Especially when now we're not even doing it for characters from the Fox-Men era.
Oh, I think they're going to recast the X-Men. Well everyone but Wolverine and Deadpool.
 
They've done such a **** job setting the stage for the next group of Avengers that I honestly expect Secret Wars to lean heavily on the multiversal characters. Don't be surprised when Maguire, Garfield, and Jackman are principals.

Deep down, I bet Feige just wants to get past this phase so they can dive head first into the X-Men stuff. Even he's gotta start to realize they've squeezed all of the blood out of the Avengers orange.

RDJ as Doctor Doom. Jesus Christ. :funny:
The biggest issue was not doing a Phase 4 New Avengers film. They badly needed it, and were really feeling its absence. Making The Avengers solely Saga ending was incredibly stupid. You can still build to a IW/EG type of event. But you need to sprinkle in a TA/AoU level one in there to help people connect to your new characters. It isn't like Cap, Thor, and Iron Man were billion dollar characters immediately. Many of those films didn't gain the popularity they do now until after The Avengers. The formula was there. Heck, you MADE the formula! Should have used it
 
Oh, I think they're going to recast the X-Men. Well everyone but Wolverine and Deadpool.
I think many will. But not the popular ones. They're going to try and bring back the proven draws. Including Channing Tatum now. Cause that's how Marvel has trained the audience now.
 
Totally. And I think this goes back to some of C. Lee's point. We are now FINALLY getting to Doctor Doom and one of the most celebrated storylines in Marvel Comics, and we're getting it without Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, and T'Challa. Supposedly, this Doom won't even have a long-contested rivalry with Richards. And he's going up against... who? A bunch of characters we've seen one time, and a bunch of legacy characters from other studios.

I've been waiting for a proper Doctor Doom for decades. And now, we're not only getting gimmick casting with RDJ, but he's the villain that's getting the "rush to the finish line" treatment so we can make way for the X-Men.

It's bull****.
You fool. You have no vision. You do not understand the deep rivalry of interdimensional Tony Stark-lookalike Doom and Peter Parker.
 
Totally. And I think this goes back to some of C. Lee's point. We are now FINALLY getting to Doctor Doom and one of the most celebrated storylines in Marvel Comics, and we're getting it without Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, and T'Challa. Supposedly, this Doom won't even have a long-contested rivalry with Richards. And he's going up against... who? A bunch of characters we've seen one time, and a bunch of legacy characters from other studios.

I've been waiting for a proper Doctor Doom for decades. And now, we're not only getting gimmick casting with RDJ, but he's the villain that's getting the "rush to the finish line" treatment so we can make way for the X-Men.

It's bull****.
I like Doom, but am in no way a mega fan. Can't imagine how much this sucks for his proper fans.

I hate when I hear people say, "he won't be the proper Doom". While they just kind of ignore that any Doom that follows up, will have lost all their thunder and a lot of potential storylines.
 
Oh, I think they're going to recast the X-Men. Well everyone but Wolverine and Deadpool.
And that's another thing. Thanks to a gimmick concept for Deadpool 3, we're now getting Hugh Jackman as Wolverine so long as the guy can stand up. Just in time for Marvel Studios to create their own X-Men.

We're gonna pair a 60-year-old Wolverine with 20-year-old Cyclops are we? Or are we gonna digitally de-age Jackman to make that work? :funny:
 
Totally. And I think this goes back to some of C. Lee's point. We are now FINALLY getting to Doctor Doom and one of the most celebrated storylines in Marvel Comics, and we're getting it without Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, and T'Challa. Supposedly, this Doom won't even have a long-contested rivalry with Richards. And he's going up against... who? A bunch of characters we've seen one time, and a bunch of legacy characters from other studios.

I've been waiting for a proper Doctor Doom for decades. And now, we're not only getting gimmick casting with RDJ, but he's the villain that's getting the "rush to the finish line" treatment so we can make way for the X-Men.

It's bull****.
Yep. The great Reed and Doom rivalry is going to be replaced with Spider-Man fawning over a guy with Tony Stark's face. That's why when people were giving me flack for calling this Doom crappy despite having not read the script, my reply is I don't care because I see no universe where I am going to like this Doctor Doom, and the RDJ Doom thing has also tempered my enthusiasm for Fantastic Four: First Steps as well
 

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