First Avenger Captain America Cannon and Real World Facts - MUST READ

[blackbyrd]

Steve Rogers was born in New York City during the Depression and grew up a frail youth in a poor family. His father died when he was a child, his mother when he was in his late teens. Horrified by newsreel footage of the Nazis in Europe, Rogers was inspired to try to enlist in the Army. However, because of his frailty and sickness, he was rejected. Overhearing the boy's earnest plea to be accepted, General Chester Phillips of the U.S. Army offered Rogers the opportunity to take part in a special experiment called Operation: Rebirth. Rogers agreed and was taken to a secret laboratory in Washington, D.C. where he was introduced to Dr. Abrahan Erskine (code named: Prof. Reinstein), the creator to the Super-Soldier Serum.
After weeks of tests, Rogers was at last administered the Super-Soldier Serum. Given part of the compound intravenously and another part orally, Rogers was then bombarded by "vita-rays," a special combination of exotic (in 1941) wavelengths of radiation designed to accelerate and stabilize the serum's effect on his body. Steve Rogers emerged from the vita-ray chamber with a body as perfect as a body can be and still be human. A Nazi spy who observed the experiment murdered Dr. Erskine mere minutes after its conclusion. Erskine died without fully committing the Super-Soldier formula to paper, leaving Steve Rogers the sole beneficiary of his genius.
Roger was then put through an intensive physical and tactical training program, teaching him gymnastics, hand-to-hand combat and military strategy. Three months later, he was given his first assignment, to stop the Nazi agent called the Red Skull. To help him become a symbolic counterpart to the Red Skull, Rogers was given the red, white, and blue costume of Captain America.
During the war, he served as both a symbol of freedom and America's most effective special operative. Then, during the final days of the war, he was trying to stop a bomb-loaded drone-plane launched by Nazi technician Baron Heinrich Zemo when the plane exploded, killing his partner Bucky; and throwing him unhurt into icy Arctic waters. The Super-Soldier formula prevented crystallization of Captain America's bodily fluid, allowing him to enter a state of suspended animation. Decades later, he was rescued by the newly-formed Avengers and became a cornerstone of the team. His might undiminish. Captain America remains a symbol of liberty and justice.
Height: 6 ft. 2 in.
Weight: 240 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Blond
Age at the Time of Enlistment: 17-18
Age at the Time of Freezing: Approximately 22
Special World War II Time Issues:
· WWII began in 1939.
· The US did not enter WWII until 1941 with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, HI.
· In 1941, Rogers was just out of high school
· Rogers enlisted at 17-18
· US Army Basic Training lasts about 4 months.
· Rogers had advanced training in addition to Boot Camp, for example Jump School, Ranger School, Survival School, etc.
· WWII ended in 1945
· WWII lasted 4 years for the US
· Rogers was frozen in ice about 4 years after he enlisted
· Even if his age was projected as a couple of years older, the most he would be is about 24-25 at the time of his freezing
Strength Level: Captain America represents the pinnacle of human physical perfection. While not superhuman, he is as strong as a human being can be. He can lift (press) a maximum of 800 pounds with supreme effort.
Known Superhuman Powers: None Known
Abilities: Captain America has agility, strength, speed, endurance, and reaction time superior to any Olympic athlete who ever competed. The Super-Soldier formula that he has metabolized has enhanced all of his bodily functions to the peak of human efficiency. Notably, his body eliminates the excessive build-up of fatigue-producing poisons, like lactic acid, in his muscles, granting him phenomenal endurance.
Captain America has mastered the martial art of American-style boxing and judo, and has combined these disciplines with his own unique hand-to-hand style of combat. He engages in a daily regimen of rigorous exercise (including aerobics, weight lifting, gymnastics, and simulated combat) to keep himself in peek condition. Captain America is one of the finest human combatants Earth has ever known.
Limitations: Captain America is subject to all human vulnerabilities, although his immunity to diseases is extraordinary.
Weapons: Captain America's only weapon is his shield, a concave disk 2.5 feet in diameter, weighing 12 pounds. It is made of a unique Vibranium-Adimantium alloy that has never been duplicated. The Shield was cast by American metallurgist Dr. Myron MacLain, who was contracted by the U.S. government to create an impenetrable substance to use for tanks during World War II. During his experiments, MacLain combined Vibranium with an Adamantium-steel alloy he was working with and created the disc-shaped shield. MacLain was never able to duplicate the process due to his inability identify a still unknown factor that played a role in it. The shield was awarded to Captain America by the government several months after the beginning of his career.
The shield has great aerodynamic properties: it is able to slice through the air with minimal wind resistance and deflection of path. Its great overall resilience, combined with its natural concentric stiffness, enables it to rebound from objects with minimal loss of angular momentum. It is virtually indestructible: it is resistant to penetration, temperature extremes, and the entire electromagnetic spectrum of radiation. The only way it can be damaged in any way is by tampering with its molecular bonding.
As of 2009 Current World Records:
Squat: 1220 lbs.
100m Dash: 9.58sec.
Mile: 3:43.13sec.
Deadlift: 1000lbs.
Clean and Jerk: 585lbs.
Pole Vault: 6.14 meters
Bench Press: 1074lbs.
Special Military Notes and Facts:
· Captain America was not an actual Captain. He was not an officer, as this requires a commission, not enlistment. To become an officer in the US military, you need a college degree. Nowhere in CAPT America cannon is it ever explained that Cap has a degree.
· At the time of his enlistment, he was an E-1, Enlisted-1. Generally, an enlisted service member makes Sergeant (SGT), which is E-5, Enlisted-5 in about 4 years, with good service and performance.
· A service member can be field promoted by a Flag Officer in times of battle, but this doesn’t usually last beyond the battle.
· The Captain (CAPT) was an honorary title and not an actual rank in this case, so, technically, he can’t give orders to anyone above an E-5 rank.
· This is probably why there are no ranking emblems on CAPT America’s uniform.
· He would probably be considered a member of the Special Forces community in the military today. The US Army Special Forces include Rangers and Green Berets.
· Other Special Forces include USMC Force Recon, USAF Para-Rescue/Para-Jumpers, USAF Combat Controllers, and USN Sea, Air, and Land (SEALs)
http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/c/captainamerica.htm
http://marveldirectory.com/misc/capamericahotline.htm
http://marveldirectory.com/misc/capamericamotorcycle.htm
http://marveldirectory.com/misc/capamericavan.htm

 

[Webhead2006]

Very good details about his life and powers/background. Good idea man.
We should get a mod to sticky this thread.

 

[KangConquers]

Those bench press figures are based on a muscle shirt, not a pure unaided bench.

unaided record is 700 lbs.

 

[Infinity9999x]

^^Yep.

But as to Cap's actually abilities, we discussed it pretty in-depth in the Cap's Power Level thread. Upon thinking about it, I realized that Cap would actually be able to do more impressive feats of strength/speed/and quickness in athletic tests than any olympic athlete.

The body is one functioning machine, and each separate muscle group aids every other lift. For example, if you have a weak lower body, you bench press will suffer, despite the bench being an upper body isolation lift.

Since Cap is at the pinnacle of human perfection in every area of athletics, (his legs are as strong as the strongest squatter, his upper body is as strong as best bench-presser, ect) this would all go together to actually make him stronger than the strongest bench-presser in the world, since he would also have the leg strength of the strongest squatter in the world.

And he would actually be faster than the fastest sprinter in the world, because he has the strength of the strongest power-lifters, ect, ect.

Which means that Cap's abilities could actually be considerably higher than the stats marvel lists him at.

 

[blackbyrd]

Cap's skills and abilities were designed by and quantified in the Official Guide to the Marvel Universe in the 80's. I'm ok with a slight mod because as humans we have made advances in athletics and human performance since then.

If the filmakers use this official origin above and add in the real world facts set in a Saving Private Ryan style shoot. This could be the greatest comic movie ever in front of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. And I am no Batman fan but they killed it with these movies....

One of the critical elements is his age. He can't be 35 or even 40 years old. It won't make sense given the real world facts and history of WWII.

Let's hope someone does their homework and reads the forums and threads.

Nuff sed....

 

[Compi716]

It may be worth it to note that it was in fact Namor who first "discovered" the frozen Captain America. He was being worshiped by Eskimos, and in a fit of rage Namor grabbed the ice and threw it, where it was eventually found by the Avengers.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Think fans should be ready for a fair few things to change.

After all, Marvel Studios also changed a fair few things for their other films.

Also, he was frozen at 22? Wasn't he born in 1917?

 

[blackbyrd]

It's too bad that they will change so much. I think the story is a really solid story otherwise it wouldn't have lasted this long. About the only thing that I would be ok with them changing is the Namor piece. Not because I don't like Namor, because I do (a great anti-hero), but I just don't think it would translate well on screen at all.....my 2 cents...

You guys must be older because only the really older fans would know great facts like he was born in 1917 and was frozen at 22 and the Namor fact.

I knew that about Namor but only vaguely recall the 1917 thing. These are really great!!

I hope they get it right and treat it seriously....

One of my biggest concerns which is crucial is his age....Some of the fans here want actors who are in their mid 30's and even 40's to play Cap....just with the story and real world history of WWII, it just wouldn't make any sense at all....

You guys are great....

 

[Webhead2006]

well how do we know they are going to change or make up own things for cap. We havent heard i think what the film's writers are doing with the script, and i am sure if they are taking things seriously like marvel/jon f did with ironman, it would be foolish to change things just for change. They will probably take things from the classic 616 stuff more, and yes they will probably use some ultimate's elements within the film some time. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[roach]

Some good info but some of the facts are a little off.
1) Steve Rogers was Captain America for a full year before Pearl Harbor.
2)Steve Rogers rank has yet to be determined in print. I have seen occasions where he is refered to as Captain Steve Rogers. I tend to agree with his rank as Captain as during his pre WW2 time he had a secret identity of Private Steve Rogers.
3)Not entirely sure Steve Rogers went to Basic Training as many of his skill sets are not what they teach amry grunts....martial arts, gymnastics
4) As a result of the SSS Rogers learns faster than normal humans....so what may take a regular joe to learn in 4 months may take a few weeks with Rogers.
5) Cap's official birthdate is July 4th, 1917 which makes him 24 in 1941
6) Cap would be more elite than special forces and fall in to the same catagory of DEVGRU(most commonly known as SEAL Team 6 or 1st SFOD-D aka Delta Force)

 

[jab1118]

It's too bad that they will change so much. I think the story is a really solid story otherwise it wouldn't have lasted this long. About the only thing that I would be ok with them changing is the Namor piece. Not because I don't like Namor, because I do (a great anti-hero), but I just don't think it would translate well on screen at all.....my 2 cents...

You guys must be older because only the really older fans would know great facts like he was born in 1917 and was frozen at 22 and the Namor fact.

I knew that about Namor but only vaguely recall the 1917 thing. These are really great!!

I hope they get it right and treat it seriously....

One of my biggest concerns which is crucial is his age....Some of the fans here want actors who are in their mid 30's and even 40's to play Cap....just with the story and real world history of WWII, it just wouldn't make any sense at all....

You guys are great....

Not that im someone who wants an older Cap but I dont see how it wouldnt make any sense that he be older. It wouldnt make sense if it were today where the military is mostly made up of 19 year old kids but in ww2 where there was a draft and they needed as many soldiers as they can get plenty of men in there mid 30s joined up. Look at saving private ryan just about all them guys were in there 30s even 40s. Look at something like band of brothers all just about 30 and up. That being said I think the ideal age to cast Cap is somewhere around 30 not a kid but not old either

 

[roach]

Not that im someone who wants an older Cap but I dont see how it wouldnt make any sense that he be older. It wouldnt make sense if it were today where the military is mostly made up of 19 year old kids but in ww2 where there was a draft and they needed as many soldiers as they can get plenty of men in there mid 30s joined up. Look at saving private ryan just about all them guys were in there 30s even 40s. Look at something like band of brothers all just about 30 and up. That being said I think the ideal age to cast Cap is somewhere around 30 not a kid but not old either

Cap joined he wasnt drafted and his birthdate is listed at July 4th 1917

 

[blackbyrd]

Hey All,

You guys have really made this thread great. I thought it would die after some of the other threads and ideas people have had for this movie and their lack of real familiarity with Cap, WWII, or the military.

I'm encouraged that my fact sheet was pretty dead on except for his age. I did not know that about his age.

He was 24 in 1941, the year of the Pearl Harbor bombing, and the year that he was administered the SSS. WWII ended in 1945 and Cap was frozen at that time so he would have been 28 at the time of freezing. Still young compared to some of the people that have been suggested for casting Cap.

His age is critical because of the historical facts.

In 1941, he would be higher than a DEVGRU and Delta servicemember. Although, no where in canon does it say that the SSS made him smarter. So as for him catching on and doing basic training in 2 weeks or something, not so much. It would seem more realsitic if he did go through basic. As for his training, he would still need to do Jump School, Survival School, Airborne, Ranger, etc., albeit on a shorter course cycle. He is after all a SPECWAR/SPECOPS soldier, he just happens to be a one off.

As for Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, they look old in those movies because casting directors have their heads in their asses and it is dark in there. It's no different than when they cast Luke Perry, age 30 to play a high school kid in 90210. Hollywood looks for established actors, not for historical accuracy. I am one who tinks you can find both. In the Vietnam War, the average age of a soldier was 19. Watch the movie Platoon, most of those actors are and lok well over 19. I have a friend who is an actor and was in a movie at age 28. His role was Col. What's His Name. Servicemembers don't get to 0-6 (Colonel/Captain) in most nearly all cases after age 40. Not exactly inspired or accurate casting.

Most Americans don't really relaize how young military members joining really are when you see them face to face. They look like babies. I see them where I work and they are just kids....many don't even have facial hair. It's funny. That's why Hollywood casts older. I don't think that community really has a clue most of the time.

As for Iron Man, I liked the movie. Didn't LOVE it. I think RDJ was too old. Stane never worked for Stark, he had his own company in competition with Stark. Even still, in the Top 5 greatest comic movies. That's another topic.

You guys are great.

 

[blackbyrd]

Just as a side note on timing issues. To be a Special Forces Operator in the USAF Combat Controller, you neeed the following training. This is why tehy are elite forces. Cap would have had to do some form of indoc that would last a lot longer than what most people would expect. Sure, it could be shortened but it would have to be somewhat realisitc. There is no way you can learn all of this stuf in a couple of weeks. This course list does not include Basic Training/Boot Camp...These guys are the closest things to Super Soldiers on Earth and it takes them this long....even if you cut that time in half....it would still be significant....

Initial Training

• Combat Control Orientation Course, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas ( two weeks)

This selection course focuses on sports physiology, nutrition, basic exercises, combat control history and fundamentals.[2]

• Combat Control Operator Course, Keesler Air Force Base, Mississippi (15.5 weeks)

This course teaches aircraft recognition and performance, air navigation aids, weather, airport traffic control, flight assistance service, communication procedures, conventional approach control, radar procedures and air traffic rules. All air traffic controllers in the Air Force attend this course.[2]

• Army Airborne School, Fort Benning, Georgia (three weeks)

Trainees learn the basic parachuting skills required to infiltrate an objective area by static line airdrop.[2]

• Air Force Basic Survival School, Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington (2.5 weeks)

This course teaches techniques for survival in remote areas. Instruction includes principles, procedures, equipment and techniques that enable individuals to survive, regardless of climatic conditions or unfriendly environments, and return home.[2]

• Combat Control School, Pope Air Force Base, North Carolina (13 weeks)

This course provides final Combat Controller qualifications. Training includes physical training, small unit tactics, land navigation, communications, assault zones, demolitions, fire support and field operations including parachuting. Graduates of the course are awarded the 3-skill level (journeymen), scarlet beret and CCT flash.[2]

Advanced Training

• Special Tactics Advanced Skills Training, Hurlburt Field, Florida (12 to 15 months)

Advanced Skills Training is a program for newly assigned Combat Controller operators. AST produces mission-ready operators for the Air Force and United States Special Operations Command. The AST schedule is broken down into four phases: water, ground, employment and full mission profile. The course tests the trainee's personal limits through demanding mental and physical training. Combat Controllers also attend the following schools during AST:

• Army Military Free Fall Parachutist School, Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and Yuma Proving Ground, Arizona (five weeks)

This course instructs free fall parachuting procedures. The course provides wind tunnel training, in-air instruction focusing on student stability, aerial maneuvers, air sense, parachute opening procedures and parachute canopy control.[2]

• Air Force Combat Diver School, Navy Diving and Salvage Training Center, Naval Support Activity Panama City, Florida (six weeks)

Trainees become combat divers, learning to use scuba and closed circuit diving equipment to covertly infiltrate denied areas. The course provides training to depths of 130 feet, stressing development of maximum underwater mobility under various operating conditions

 

[roach]

Hey All,

You guys have really made this thread great. I thought it would die after some of the other threads and ideas people have had for this movie and their lack of real familiarity with Cap, WWII, or the military.

I'm encouraged that my fact sheet was pretty dead on except for his age. I did not know that about his age.

He was 24 in 1941, the year of the Pearl Harbor bombing, and the year that he was administered the SSS. WWII ended in 1945 and Cap was frozen at that time so he would have been 28 at the time of freezing. Still young compared to some of the people that have been suggested for casting Cap.

His age is critical because of the historical facts.

In 1941, he would be higher than a DEVGRU and Delta servicemember. Although, no where in canon does it say that the SSS made him smarter. So as for him catching on and doing basic training in 2 weeks or something, not so much. It would seem more realsitic if he did go through basic. As for his training, he would still need to do Jump School, Survival School, Airborne, Ranger, etc., albeit on a shorter course cycle. He is after all a SPECWAR/SPECOPS soldier, he just happens to be a one off.

As for Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, they look old in those movies because casting directors have their heads in their asses and it is dark in there. It's no different than when they cast Luke Perry, age 30 to play a high school kid in 90210. Hollywood looks for established actors, not for historical accuracy. I am one who tinks you can find both. In the Vietnam War, the average age of a soldier was 19. Watch the movie Platoon, most of those actors are and lok well over 19. I have a friend who is an actor and was in a movie at age 28. His role was Col. What's His Name. Servicemembers don't get to 0-6 (Colonel/Captain) in most nearly all cases after age 40. Not exactly inspired or accurate casting.

Most Americans don't really relaize how young military members joining really are when you see them face to face. They look like babies. I see them where I work and they are just kids....many don't even have facial hair. It's funny. That's why Hollywood casts older. I don't think that community really has a clue most of the time.

As for Iron Man, I liked the movie. Didn't LOVE it. I think RDJ was too old. Stane never worked for Stark, he had his own company in competition with Stark. Even still, in the Top 5 greatest comic movies. That's another topic.

You guys are great.

From the bio printed with the Captain America omnibus....."In Early 1940 he tried to enlist and was denied due to his inability to pass physical requirements and was invited to Operation Rebirth."

According to the bio he recieved the SSS in 1940.

The 616 Cap costume was designed by Steve himself.

When America entered the war Cap and Bucky joined the Invaders.

In late April 1945 is when Cap was frozen

In Mythos:Captain America written by Paul Jenkins it talks about Cap's ability to learn very fast due to the SSS

 

[Thundercrack85]

I haven't seen it mentioned, but it's worth noting that Steve Rogers is Irish American, both his parents were Irish immigrants. He's also Christian, and by most accounts religious. But I don't believe it's been stated specifically what kind of Christian he is.

Given his parents, and his surroundings Steve Rogers probably had a pretty crappy childhood. Father died at young age, and his mother in his teens from pneumonia. And he grew up in the height of the Great Depression. Hopefully some of that will be seen in the movie.

As for rank, for the sake of convenience and clarity, they'll probably just give him the rank of captain. He's about the right age anyway, if the movie is set during WWII.

 

[blackbyrd]

Again, you guys are great. I didn't know his birthdate or that he was Irish. Both of those would be great elements to explore in the movie.

As for him creating his own costume, that just is a mistake on the comic creator's part. The Army doesn't let any creativity in their ranks. That costume/uniform would have been a few miles of red tape to get created.

What would really be ineteresting to see both in the comics and in the movie would be two uniforms for Cap. The uniform he normally wears to go into battle (the 616 duds) and a dress uniform for ceremonies where he gets to wear his various decorations and such. Again, it would make for a cool element and more realism. Each soldier has his Battle Dress Uniform (BDU) and Class A's, as well as Mess Dress which is the really formal tuxedo style uniform. It would be great if Cap had all three.....

As for his rank...I'd love to get some real hard facts on this. It clearly says that Cap enlisted. You can't be an officer (Captain) and enlist...you have to get a Commission. My best gues is that he was actually a private in rank and the Captain was an honorary title given to him for his role in the propoganda. Again, this would be a really cool element to explore in the movie. All those little facts are what really give these characters depth and not just some silly comic 1 dimensional charactor.

Great discussion...

 

[roach]

The military has been know to allow their personel to decide on uniforms...recently the Navy has changed several of their uniforms based on what we wanted in our uniforms. Several of the special forces groups work with weapons manufacturers to develop weapons specificly made for that group.

Again I havent seen anything that states a rank for Steve Rogers. In the comic Captain America and the Falcon, around 2002 i believe he goes to a court marshal and is refered to as Captain Steve Rogers. He had a cover in the US Army during WW2 as a Private.
Also it isnt impossible to be an enlisted person and then become an officer

 

[blackbyrd]

To become an officer you need a commission. In the Navy you can be a Limited Duty Officer an dbecome an officer but this comes after years and years (like 20) in a specific field. So, in only the LDO case, it is impossible. What a lot of guys do is go Mustang...enlist and then seek a commission after they are in in a variety of ways but tey still need a commission.

The changes that military members ask for are approved by much higher groups of officers who give the ok. One can ask but really the decision is up to the "Brass".

An example, Marine Force Recon wanted their own special pin, like the Navy SEALS but the CMC's office said no because they were Marines despite being MARSOC...

 

[blackbyrd]

Oh, I think regarding his rank...I think that is just a mistake of the comic writers who were probaly unfamiliar with the facts surrounding the issue. One of the things that is great about Cap is that he is like Batman, a regular guy (for the most part)...so having real world facts really gives these movies a great foundation...

 

[roach]

To become an officer you need a commission. In the Navy you can be a Limited Duty Officer an dbecome an officer but this comes after years and years (like 20) in a specific field. So, in only the LDO case, it is impossible. What a lot of guys do is go Mustang...enlist and then seek a commission after they are in in a variety of ways but tey still need a commission.

The changes that military members ask for are approved by much higher groups of officers who give the ok. One can ask but really the decision is up to the "Brass".

An example, Marine Force Recon wanted their own special pin, like the Navy SEALS but the CMC's office said no because they were Marines despite being MARSOC...

field commissions for enlisted to officer werent unheard of in WW2....lest not forget that Nick Fury started out as a Sgt and became a Colonel

 

[blackbyrd]

I'm sure the rules were different in WWII. Still, if Fury went from E-5 to O-6 in the Army, which is a huge jump, don't think you think Cap would be a Major by now if he had n actual rank. Especially for all of the things he's accomplished. As a Captain, he's only an O-3 in the Army. Which makes me think even more that the Captain is an honorary title and not a rank. He never gets promoted like Nick Fury....hhmmmm.....

 

[Thundercrack85]

We have to keep in mind that back then writers didn't have things like Wikipedia and google at their disposal.

There's a few things to consider when it comes to rank. Besides regular promotions, posthumous promotions may also come into play. Especially since he "died" such a heroic "death", and was so liked. Normally that wouldn't be an issue but it's different if you're a war hero who's been thought dead for 65 years.

For actual uniform (not costume) there's also awards to consider. I wouldn't be the least surprised if Cap has a medal of honor. Not to mention foreign awards.

 

[blackbyrd]

Even more reason to start to clarify some things with regardto accuracy. Cap's a great character that doesn't really get the deference he deserves. Not like the big boys, Sidey, bats, Supes, WW, etc.

I have heard of those promotions but Cap has been Cap since day 1 and never gets promoted...

As for his ceremonial uniform, he would still need a mask component. He probably has all kinds of decorations including a few MOH's, Silver Stars, Bronze Stars, campaign ribbons, foreign decorations, etc. He probably even has a few "black" decorations. It would be cool to see an artists rendering of what a Cap ceremonial uniform might look like for when he would be honored publicly.

 

[roach]

Army dress uniform